Fallout series

[Ruin]

The problem was that the factions where just on a sliding scale from good to bad which completely removes all moral ambiguity and just makes you want to pick either the railroad or the minutemen and then get bored of the game.

The minutemen and railroad are so annoying that I murder them in every playthrough. The mod that makes Preston Garvey killable has more downloads than nude mods for a reason.

 

[Mola Ram]

The problem was that the factions where just on a sliding scale from good to bad which completely removes all moral ambiguity and just makes you want to pick either the railroad or the minutemen and then get bored of the game.

The problem being the Minutemen are useless and the Railroad are idiots. There are no good choices. The Institute could have been so much more than it is: imagine warring factions within the ranks, with the more humane elements your potential allies in cleaning the place up and the more authoritarian elements being your footsoldiers in turning it into a weapon to conquer the Commonwealth once and for all. As it is, their plans make no sense whatsoever and they might as well be the mad scientists from the Think Tank. There's supposed to be this big dilemma over siding against them because of your son, but your son:

a) is an asshole,
b) never explains his thinking or allows you to challenge him on the Institute's shittiness (see esp. the FIV labs),
c) never even offers definitive proof he's your son.

It's all such a waste. I side with the Institute anyway, because I got to have my teleporter and classical music station.

 

[Burned Man]

Am i the only one that likes the simple “Good vs Evil” main quest of Fallout 3?

It has brilliant twists and leaves you excited wondering what is going to happens next (for me the important part in a story).

Leave the moral ambiguity for the side quests IMO.

Its fine for what it is. My only real concern is that if you are going to make it possible to side with the evil side you should be given a compelling reason to do so. Poisoning the water with FEV seems like a bad idea since by that point in the storyline it should be clear you're not a healthy vault dweller immune to its effects and its not like the President ever invited you to live in the Enclave so you are certainly going to drink that tainted water one day.

 

[Trainfucker]

Its fine for what it is. My only real concern is that if you are going to make it possible to side with the evil side you should be given a compelling reason to do so. Poisoning the water with FEV seems like a bad idea since by that point in the storyline it should be clear you're not a healthy vault dweller immune to its effects and its not like the President ever invited you to live in the Enclave so you are certainly going to drink that tainted water one day.

it’s exactly the kind of plan a retarded senile president blinded on patriotism would come up with.

 

[The handsome tard]

Far Harbor is so far beyond the writing of Fallout 3 and 4 I seriously wondered if they found some New Vegas guys to ghostwrite it. There are no good answers for how to resolve DiMA's situation, just what you can live with. They even put a human face on the Children of Atom, which until Far Harbor functioned on the level of a cartoon.

I guess because they wanted to show that all the factions are flawed but arent necessarily evil per say.

The people of far harbor are honest and mostly innocent but they do show they can be quite needlessly aggressive with mainlanders (but you can build their trust, like your choices suddenly matter now or something) and can jump VERY quickly into the murdering part (they dont even consider the possibility to give their prisioners some sort of trial beforehand to give them a chance to explain themselves, its just what they see and thats it).

The children of atom can come off as a crazy cult (and ultimately thats what they are) but interact with them enough and they come off as misguided by their leaders, especially since we know the cult didnt start off violent and it mostly focused on good values like being kind to your neighbor, forgive their sins and etc (hell a good way to get good karma in F3 was donating to them) and they never turn violent on you (unless you shoot first obviously). Hell, you see some of their own members showing concern towards their fellow members, some you can see are just sad victims of this world in despered need of guidance and help (like one of them being a jet junkie). It shows the leadership is their true problem ultimately and the children of atom can actually return to being a harmless influence.

Acadia is a safe haven for synths who understandably dont get themselves involved much with the railroad (they find the whole mind wiping and then hiding thing to be rather...wrong and burying the problem, as if the only way a synth can be "free" is by pretending to be a human for the rest of their lives, even if they are unaware. We did see how this can backfire in Fallout 3 with The Replicant Man questline, it ended alright there but it seriously could have not). However, its peace is built on lies, which raises the moral questions if this means they are no better than the Institute and Railroad and if they all should suffer for the actions of their leader.

There is no "evil" faction in Far Harbor, even the Children of Atom turn out to simply wanting their own version of the greater good and you can even make the argument that a change in leadership and Far Harbor's extreme treatement of outsiders is what is truly the root of their problem.

There is no "perfect" ending, you can just pick your own version of "peace/justice" and come to terms with it as you now know your morals have been questioned if not outright deconstructed.
Its almost like Far Harbor is mocking the lack of moral ambiguity in the base game, even if unintentionally. Turns out your 4 little options that are usually variation of the same answer wont give you an easy answer...

 

[Burned Man]

it’s exactly the kind of plan a retarded senile president blinded on patriotism would come up with.

President asks you to poison water with virus, refuse, won't let you out until you take it, take it and convince president to blow up base, poison water anyway.

I will say the choice is a little better with Broken Steel since that way you can at least appreciate your dastardly choice in person. If the only reason to be evil is for evil's sake then let me play around with it. If you want to be a dick sending Sarah into the chamber for you and blowing up the Citadel are pretty great for that purpose.

 

[The handsome tard]

Am i the only one that likes the simple “Good vs Evil” main quest of Fallout 3?

It has brilliant twists and leaves you excited wondering what is going to happens next (for me the important part in a story).

Leave the moral ambiguity for the side quests IMO.

Most people kept complaining you couldnt join the Enclave in F3 (the most you could do was depositing the FEV on the water purifier but thats it) but I really dont think that the series intends for that to ever be an option.

The enclave couldnt be joined in Fallout 2 and everyone talks how thats the best one of the bunch and the most "rpg-ish" where your choices really matter and etc...but there is no "enclave" ending. To put it in context, there is a The Master Wins ending in Fallout 1. So why suddenly Fallout 3 is the worst for not having one?

I think it ultimately falls into the fact that you arent suppose to ever join them because the enclave has little redeeming qualities and they would never accept the aid of someone who isnt Enclave from the get go. Everyone complains how Brotherhood of Steel just accept new members but I personally think it would be MORE lore breaking if the ENCLAVE was doing just that. They are not Ceaser's Legion where you can join if you prove yourself and share their ideals. If you share their ideals and is an outsiders, bye bye to you mutie. Thats simply how they worked before in 2 and worked then in 3...for all the complaints on how Bethesda wasnt consistant with what the factions accept or not, Im surprised people keep asking for that huge piece of lore breaking stuff.

You couldnt join the Enclave because that was never, EVER, a possibility.

 

[Snekposter]

Far Harbor is so far beyond the writing of Fallout 3 and 4 I seriously wondered if they found some New Vegas guys to ghostwrite it. There are no good answers for how to resolve DiMA's situation, just what you can live with. They even put a human face on the Children of Atom, which until Far Harbor functioned on the level of a cartoon.

Its a lot like the Valentine stuff from the base game, I felt. Consciousness, what is a person. Judging by that one line from Kellogg Valentine says it looks like he was going to come back from the grave at some point inside Valentine's body and you'd be able to chat with him about things, and maybe even choose which person gets to live. As to FH, I ended up having DiMA die for his sins, but since I had proven myself to the townsfolk they all sided with me when it came time to spare the synth. Whatever the sins of the synth who agreed to his plan were, she died when DiMA overwrote her.

 

[HeyYou]

Im going to play Devil's Advocate here and say Bethesda CAN have moments of moral ambiguity beyond the one you just said. One example is the finale of Far Harbor's main quest.
Spoilers for those who still didnt play Far Harbor but intend to:

Spoiler: Spoilers

DiMA, the head synth of Acadia (the only by synth for synth home for synths, none of that railroad stuff) hid his own memories from himself (the reason is pretty long so I wont bother explaining), once you recover them he realizes that he came up with a plan to replace the mayor of Far Harbor with an identical synth who would have its memories wiped out to properly replace the woman (and he made it clear that they abhore senseless killing and mind wiping a synth, so it made DiMA come off as a disgusting hypocrite). The reason he did that was to make peace between the citizens of F.H and the synths of Acadia and it worked (but he was so horrified at himself that he decided to remove those memories and hide them away).
With the truth exposed, you are given a few options (tho there are more on the grand scheme but only the ones available right away), expose DiMA and his lies to the people of Far Harbor, which could risk destroying Acadia as the mob at the town will feel understandably frightened of the synths (it would lead to Kasumi, the girl you came to F.H to look for, getting killed and thus failing the whole mission), you convince DiMA to willingly give himself in to the people of Far Harbor so only he suffers the consequences and Acadia doesnt (DiMA gets executed no matter what but Acadia is saved. Oh and you actually need a high speech check for this...yeah, wow, your speech actually is worth jack in Far Harbor) and finally you can keep the secret and DiMA decides to suggest you help him replace the leader of the Children of Atom (yeah, they return in F4...but now as a generic evil doomsday cult instead of the weird but ultimately harmless cult in Megaton) as this would help bring peace too.

And Im not even considering the Brotherhood of Steel and RailRoad getting involved, the children of atom questlines and endings where you can nuke them, Far Harbor, both and etc.

Say whatever you want about Bethesda, things like these show that they HAVE the potential of being NV good when they really want to.

Do you bring DiMA to justice at risk of destroying a community of innocents? And even if Acadia is spared, should DiMA pay for what was a misguided but ultimately still well intended attempt at creating actual peace (things are legit peaceful, not buts)? And if his plans actually work at bringing peace, is it worth it to sacrifice the flawed leaders of both communities? Just how far would you go for peace, one built on lies but peace none the less? And for justice?

The only way of acheiving a peaceful ending between the 3 factions requires it to be built on lies. Does that really make it peace? How long will it last? Does this mean you and DiMA are no better than the Institute now? Suddenly all your morals are questioned for what truly is the greater good and what sacrifices must be taken to achieve it.

Its legit genius from Bethesda and it makes me wonder where the hell was this type of writing through the most of Fallout 4.

Yeah, I said it further up in the thread when recommending DLC, Far Harbor actually implements the themes the main game seemed to be going for. Whereas the Institute claimed they were replacing people to create peace in the wasteland but were actually doing it for basically shits and giggles, DiMA was actually doing it to prevent the three factions of Far Harbor from killing each other. And whereas in the main game siding with with any of the factions meant genociding entire other factions despite them being full of innocents (especially children) and potentially worth saving, the Children of Atom are legitimately terrifying cultists who see it as their duty to spread radiation to other people as some sort of twisted "gift". Thus, you have to decide if the best (or least bad) choice is replacing each faction head with a synth to create peace, nuking one faction (almost always the Children of Atom tbh) so that conflict isn't even an option and the Harbermen can actually reclaim their island, or accepting that conflict is inevitable and it isn't your (or DiMA's) job to play God.

 

[The handsome tard]

Its a lot like the Valentine stuff from the base game, I felt. Consciousness, what is a person. Judging by that one line from Kellogg Valentine says it looks like he was going to come back from the grave at some point inside Valentine's body and you'd be able to chat with him about things, and maybe even choose which person gets to live. As to FH, I ended up having DiMA die for his sins, but since I had proven myself to the townsfolk they all sided with me when it came time to spare the synth. Whatever the sins of the synth who agreed to his plan were, she died when DiMA overwrote her.

I honestly to God thought thats where they were heading with, like suddenly Kellogg "possesses" Nick and speaks through him. Honestly, it could help to establish a dynamic between both The solo survivor and him. Sort of going the "we are not so different you and I" except obviously done subtly, since Kellogg lost everything and became a cynical monster while The Solo Survivor loses literally everything and yet can rise to become the Commonwealth's greatest hero (or monster too).

 

[millais]

Most people kept complaining you couldnt join the Enclave in F3 (the most you could do was depositing the FEV on the water purifier but thats it) but I really dont think that the series intends for that to ever be an option.

The enclave couldnt be joined in Fallout 2 and everyone talks how thats the best one of the bunch and the most "rpg-ish" where your choices really matter and etc...but there is no "enclave" ending. To put it in context, there is a The Master Wins ending in Fallout 1. So why suddenly Fallout 3 is the worst for not having one?

I think it ultimately falls into the fact that you arent suppose to ever join them because the enclave has little redeeming qualities and they would never accept the aid of someone who isnt Enclave from the get go. Everyone complains how Brotherhood of Steel just accept new members but I personally think it would be MORE lore breaking if the ENCLAVE was doing just that. They are not Ceaser's Legion where you can join if you prove yourself and share their ideals. If you share their ideals and is an outsiders, bye bye to you mutie. Thats simply how they worked before in 2 and worked then in 3...for all the complaints on how Bethesda wasnt consistant with what the factions accept or not, Im surprised people keep asking for that huge piece of lore breaking stuff.

You couldnt join the Enclave because that was never, EVER, a possibility.

In F3 you can pretend to "ally" with the Enclave by using the mesmetron to daze, collar, and then immediately free all the respawning Enclave NPCs at the various outposts, which turns them permanently friendly. They'll then back you up in firefights if you are close enough to the outposts. Doesn't work on randomly spawning or Vertibird'ed roving patrols or the Enclave deathclaws though.

 

[The handsome tard]

You know, it came to me. I could be wrong and seeing whats not there but hear me out.

Were Ceaser and Lanius sort of like Lenin and Stalin? As in, Ceaser brought the legion together through his words and political strategies while Lanius acted like his military leader, his "fist" of sorts. And when Ceaser dies, Lanius takes over and it becomes obvious that, just like Stalin, their military style of leadership will not benefit the legion long term and might even speed up its downfall since both only know violence as a way to keep things under control.

Both the legion and the USSR have similar origins in a weird way and both have been said to suffer from the same weakness, once their leader dies, replacements incapable of keeping the same amount of influence and control will slowly but surely cause it to fall apart. Both Lenin and Ceaser fall not in battle but from natural causes.

Both Lanius and Stalin were monsters of human beings, doing whatever they can to achieve victory, even if that includes making their own soldiers more terrified of them than their own enemies...as in "dont fail or I will make you wish the enemy killed you." They arent politcal leaders that can influence and convince their forces to band together, they could only use strength to do so.

Am I going coco or maybe is there some sort of connection in there? I wouldnt mind if so, there is nothing wrong using some real history as inspiration.

 

[ShortBusDriver]

Am i the only one that likes the simple “Good vs Evil” main quest of Fallout 3?

It has brilliant twists and leaves you excited wondering what is going to happens next (for me the important part in a story).

Leave the moral ambiguity for the side quests IMO.

I agree, i felt Fallout 3 was well paced, like I was rushing to the next step, but always just behind father.

I understand why someone who played 1 / 2 enjoys the more complex paths of New Vegas, and there's nothing wrong with that, but Fallout 3 stands on it's own.

Fallout 4 was such a mess and frankly I didn't care what happened because nothing I did ever seemed to have any real impact anyway.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Fallout 3 is definitely underrated, I’ve been hit by an inexplicable but very strong desire to replay it, but it's one of those things where it's take too much time and there's too many either new games or games you haven't played yet to really justify sinking the time in something you've already played.

Still, I'd like to do so someday though.

There's no reason 4 couldn't have been at least as good as 3 and the fact that it isn't is a real shame, I think of the main issues with 4 is simply this, Boston is kind of a boring setting, there's no getting around that, if feels like Bethesda didn't want to stray too far from DC, so we get what essentially amounts to a less interesting version of the same basic idea, a city with ties to American history, but without the iconography on the scale of stuff like the Washington Monument or the Capital Building, lame.

Maybe it should have been NYC.

 

[Anachronistic]

I actually enjoy Boston quite a bit to be honest. It may not have all the really well known landmarks most people think of when they imagine an American city, but I'm happy to see a region that tends to get underrepresented in gaming be given a shot. It's more unique than setting a game in New York for the #6754th time at least.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I definitely prefer FO4 to FO3. With the former I like some of the companions, a handful of the quests are okay, and the combat is moderately satisfying, making clearing out a skyscraper full of super mutants somewhat entertaining. For Fallout 3... I like maybe one or two quests; beyond that, though, I think the game is garbage.

 

[No. 7 cat]

Far Harbor is so far beyond the writing of Fallout 3 and 4 I seriously wondered if they found some New Vegas guys to ghostwrite it. There are no good answers for how to resolve DiMA's situation, just what you can live with. They even put a human face on the Children of Atom, which until Far Harbor functioned on the level of a cartoon.

Far Harbor is extraordinary, quite poetic, helped by an atmospheric soundtrack.

 

[Snekposter]

There's a lot of really interesting, touching things in FO4 that are unfortunately small moments compared to the greater whole. Terminal entries, small side conversations... almost like they had side writers with talent who were sidelined by a lack of seniority. The Kellogg stuff from Fort Hagen on until you end at the Memory Den will always stand out for me. Its kinda sad how he goes from being a scared child with a violent father to devoted husband who leaned from his dad's mistakes to well, Kellogg.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

There's a lot of really interesting, touching things in FO4 that are unfortunately small moments compared to the greater whole. Terminal entries, small side conversations... almost like they had side writers with talent who were sidelined by a lack of seniority. The Kellogg stuff from Fort Hagen on until you end at the Memory Den will always stand out for me. Its kinda sad how he goes from being a scared child with a violent father to devoted husband who leaned from his dad's mistakes to well, Kellogg.

Yes, i met your point.
Not even a redemption option to having him a follower, and of course if you side with the institute, he turns hostile.

 

[King Ghidorah]

I've been thinking of a couple sillier ideas for character builds in new Vegas
One is effectively just james bond a secret agent operating for whatever faction i choose to play him as.
The second is ash Williams with the setup that the alternate end of army of darkness sent him to the Mojave wasteland instead
My question would be what would be an ideal way to build/play these characters beyond blatantly obvious must haves (ladykiller for bond, shotgun perks and chainsaw for ash ect)