Fallout series

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Unrelated but people what have we all agreed about when it came to Imperator before? You all know with him it's just a matter of time before he starts comparing shit to Star Wars again.

Chief Hanlon and Lanius duel with lightsabers. Hanlon jumps away and yells ''I have the high ground!'' Lanius yells ''YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER!'' and he jumps.

Oh look my 18th century artillery cannon just blew your blimp up.

That's the biggest L for the Brotherhood in Fallout 4. Like sure, put all your personnel and the fucking Elder on a blimp that some dipshit with glorified artillery can blow up.

Imagine if the Institute came out with top-of-the-line artillery far improved from 18th century designs. The Brotherhood would cease to be a problem in an instant.

Shit, the Courier with the Helios One orbital laser can probably shoot down the Prydwen and kill them all in one move.

i have been playing fallout 3 recently (must have been over ten years since i last played it) and its still a pretty decent game. i like the game opens up and lets you go whereever you want (one could argue it dose it better then new vegas since it "forces" new players on a safer path) and it actually lets you be an outright bastard! as soon as i left the vault (after killing Butch mother) i imminently killed a a junkie whore for her money, nuked Megaton on Mister Burken request and had an ghoul uprising, killing everyone in Tenpenny tower. (eating the rich. literally.) that was all in the first 6 hours of the game. when was the last time a triple A game lets you enslave people and sell them for profit? even bought my own sex slave that helps with that.

Which again, goes to show that Fallout 3 isn't the straightforward, rail-roading affair that many haters claim it was.

Hell, in my first playthrough, I killed the Brotherhood using the Enclave's satellite weapon, firing it on the Citadel, and then going from one spot to another and killing what's left of the Brotherhood. Capping it off by massacring what's left of the BoS in the GNR building and killing Three Dog with a plasma grenade. SOB had been bitching about me since I blew up Megaton, and he had the gall to send me on a fetch quest while I was looking for my dad. Fuck 'em.

 

[Cod of War]

NCR is best because Quartermaster Bardon sells enough ammo to double tap everything in the Mojave, twice.

 

[Ginebra]

This is what people forget about the NCR. So they lose New Vegas. So what? The entire place is by NCR standards a desolate backwater.

Didn't Hanlon talk about how water-rich the Mojave is relative to California, with how they've pumped and sucked as much water out of it? Water and abundant energy from Hoover damn is one hell of an export for a backwater in an economy so heavily dependent on water.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Colonel Hsu, Major Dhatri, Colonel Moore, that Colonel Royez guy with the power armor who shows up if you nuke I-15.

And these people are leadership material because why, again? Last I checked most of these guys are bureaucrats or footsloggers. No match for Lanius or Vulpes. Lanius has elite troops that, as Moore stated, are as well-trained as the average NCR Ranger. Vulpes has spies everywhere and has shown that he can cross the river with impunity and sack communities that are close to NCR bases. Against that, what can these officers do?

Again, all of them have replacements lined up. You forgot that the NCR most likely has a vice president or can at least call a snap election and the rest are military officers who are actively detrimental.

And those elections will be determined by........rich senators and brahmin barons. Who only care about their wealth and power. And if working with Caesar or Lanius preserves that wealth and power, they'll happily sell the Republic to him.

The NCR isn't incapable of doing it so much as their leadership won't let them. This is the running theme the faction runs on and why they haven't crushed the Legion by now. It's established all the way back when you first go to Mojave outpost. They have men and equipment to spare but their orders are being given down by either a jackass who wants to look fancy (Oliver) or another jackass who is a self defeating doomer (Hanlon). The bulk of the NCR in California by contrast has rebuilt the place to prewar standards and has a functioning industrial economy with sufficient food and manpower to get through the game unabated even with the Mojave occupied.

Er, no. The NCR back home in California has raiders, monsters, and the Brotherhood running around, killing people, and the NCR is unable to deal with them, with their best forces being re-routed to protect the interests of the rich. Hell, Caesar became who he is because his father died to raiders in NCR territory, and his mother had to seek refuge with the Followers of the Apocalypse. If the NCR was actually a functional nation that protected its citizens, Caesar wouldn't be Caesar, he'd just be Edward Sallow, another NCR patriot doing his duty for the state, worshiping at the altar of Tandi and other NCR legends.

Hanlon is a suicidal old man who thinks Caesar is literally going to live forever and can't get over what happened in the first battle. Notice that he changes his tune completely when he learns Caesar has a tumor and will die soon. His whole opinion is based around dealing with chucklefucks like Oliver and thinking his rangers have 20 years of bullshit in some place he doesn't give a shut about but notice how his projections completely change when he realizes they can just hold out for another year and pick the Legion apart after that. He's not scared that the NCR is fundamentally broken, he just thinks it's a boondoggle to be dragged down by a rival power. Those are different scenarios.

The thing is, the NCR gives power to dumb morons like Oliver because he kissed the right ass. Meanwhile Lanius got to where he was because he was effective. The difference between the two armies is night and day. You can talk about all the good NCR officers all you want, it doesn't erase the fact that the Legion is ten times more efficient at training good soldiers, and the average Legion officer probably has more qualifications to lead than the average NCR officer.

Hanlon doesn't change his position 100 percent when he learns Caesar is dead, he just hopes for the best, and that only works if the main character doesn't turn against the NCR. Not to mention that even the prospect of victory doesn't excite him that much.

''And even if we hold this dam, what then? Are we going to send the NCR's men and women to die here for another five years? Ten? Patrol the whole length of the Colorado for hundreds of miles? Holding this dam. It'll be the death of us."
-Chief Hanlon

Again, his concerns are very much valid. Which is why the best win for the NCR is if House or the Courier takes control, since the NCR citizens would still have access to New Vegas and the Mojave, but they won't have to pay a dime supporting a garrison in the Mojave with the Securitrons taking up that burden, and their troops can go home and actually protect their own land.

America didn't undergo total institutional collapse the minute we pulled out of Vietnam. As your own quote states literally nobody back home cares about New Vegas, win or lose.

That's because America was still a superpower that had been built up for centuries of expansion and wealth. They can afford a few losses; Vietnam isn't as close to the USA as the Mojave is to California. The same cannot be said for the NCR, which is a backwards hovel that doesn't even have 1 million people, nor can it even protect its own citizens, since even the Legion leader was once an NCR citizen whose father got killed by raiders despite being in NCR territory. Literally, the Legion exists BECAUSE the NCR can't protect its own people.

"Whoops, sorry, I fucked up, time to eat my gun barrel." He is a broken old man desperately trying to justify the things he has done, and when he has to pay the price, takes the easy way out.

Yes, and that's also the guy who defeated the Legion the last time. Why he became so despondent, it's probably because the situation for the NCR is so dire that only a magic mailman could solve all their problems. Meanwhile, aside from Caesar's tumor, there's not that much the Legion can't do on their own, and Caesar's death matters so little to most since yes, the Legion already has a succession lined up ready to go in case Caesar dies.

Not that Moore herself is incompetent, given she realizes the threat individual legionaries pose and actively trains her men in CQC drills so they have a hope just in case the Legion closes. Nor is Oliver all that retarded. He's not as smart as he thinks he is, but he's still smart enough to realize that the NCR has more than enough men and rifles to crush the Legion, if the Legion presents a single target for them to hit. Which is exactly what happens at Hoover Dam. Unlike Hanlon he's quite willing to fight to the end and needs to be persuaded to use his secret escape tunnel instead of ducking out and letting his men die for him.

But the thing is, Oliver will still die if Lanius invades and there's no Courier to protect him. At most, he'd hold them off for a while, but eventually, they'll get swarmed by elite Legion troops and the Legion will win anyways.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

And these people are leadership material because why, again? Last I checked most of these guys are bureaucrats or footsloggers. No match for Lanius or Vulpes.

They correctly diagnose and take steps to solve each of the problems before them. They're major quest givers (except power armor guy) for a reason. They're hampered, not stupid.

And those elections will be determined by........rich senators and brahmin barons. Who only care about their wealth and power. And if working with Caesar preserves that wealth and power, they'll happily sell the Republic to him.

Nobody is stupid enough to sell the Republic to Caesar. Another big plot point in New Vegas is that everybody west of the river abhors the idea of the Legion taking over because they're draconian and will put the boot on anybody they meet.

Er, no. The NCR back home in California has raiders, monsters, and the Brotherhood running around, killing people, and the NCR is unable to deal with them, with their best forces being re-routed to protect the interests of the rich. Hell, Caesar became who he is because his father died to raiders in NCR territory, and his mother had to seek refuge with the Followers of the Apocalypse. If the NCR was actually a functional nation that protected its citizens, Caesar wouldn't be Caesar, he'd just be Edward Sallow, another NCR patriot doing his duty for the state

Caesar hasn't been to the NCR for decades. You meet a working class girl in Sloan who just left and her reason for being there is because the area has stabilized so much that she has to go to the Mojave to see a new frontier at this point.

Again, his concerns are very much valid. Which is why the best win for the NCR is if House or the Courier takes control, since the NCR citizens would still have access to New Vegas and the Mojave, but they won't have to pay a dime supporting a garrison in the Mojave with the securitrons taking up that burden, and their troops can go home and actually protect their own land.

His concerns may be valid but the man himself has no real solution for the issue and is explicitly self sabotaging and suicidal. He's not well in the head and he's not interested in helping either his faction or the Mojave and his chosen course of action completely ignores how potent Hoover dam is with regards to facilitating the kind of expansion either the Legion or the NCR would be capable of once they fully secure it.

That's because America was still a superpower that had been built up for centuries of expansion and wealth. The same cannot be said for the NCR, which is a backwards hovel that doesn't even have 1 million people, nor can it even protect its own citizens, since even the Legion leader was once an NCR citizen whose father got killed by raiders despite being in NCR territory. Literally, the Legion exists BECAUSE the NCR can't protect its own people

The Legion exists because Sallow has a massive ego and his tribes are only really capable of raiding and breaking shit. They're a potent fighting force and they can police their territories but that's all they do. The NCR is the faction building and restoring infrastructure (remember, the dam is largely operational because of them), building up its standard of living and is expanding its civilian and military population base and see above about my point of the NCR being secure.

Yes, and that's also the guy who defeated the Legion the last time. Why he became so despondent, it's probably because the situation for the NCR is so dire that only a magic mailman could solve all their problems. Meanwhile, aside from Caesar's tumor, there's not that much the Legion can't do on their own.

You have to remember that he's shooting himself in the foot. He could have had his rangers doing something this whole time and coordinating with the Army units but he refuses because he wants the dream of expansion to die. The rangers could have done a lot more if he gave them latitude and worked with the local Army commanders but he refuses because of his own shellshock. He can be smart and accomplished all day but the fault lies with him probably more than anyone else.

But the thing is, Oliver will still die if Lanius invades and there's no Courier to protect him. At most, he'd hold them off for a while, but eventually, they'll get swarmed by elite Legion troops and the Legion will win anyways

For christ sakes nobody cares about Oliver.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

They correctly diagnose and take steps to solve each of the problems before them. They're major quest givers (except power armor guy) for a reason. They're hampered, not stupid.

And how are these idiots going to solve the problem of the Legion being more experienced and more well-trained compared to the average NCR soldier? Moore herself said that the average Legion grunt is far better trained than the average NCR soldier, so even if Oliver and Kimball are out of the picture and Hanlon eats a bullet, these officers you hold so highly are still facing an uphill battle that they will likely lose.

Nobody is stupid enough to sell the Republic to Caesar. Another big plot point in New Vegas is that everybody west of the river abhors the idea of the Legion taking over because they're draconian and will put the boot on anybody they meet.

Not if Caesar gives them a good enough offer. These brahmin barons and senators only wish to preserve their own power. That, and Caesar himself was already seeing the need for compromise, wanting to create a new society based on the best ideas of both the NCR and the Legion, creating a synthesis. Once he starts doing that after he wins, the NCR senators and brahmin barons would probably see that working with Caesar is better than fighting him.

As for Lanius, he'd still be able to crush any NCR force coming up against him with his soldiers who are better trained, and Lanius himself is no slouch on the tactical department, so he'd probably be able to outfox any NCR officer and crush them by the balls, so the NCR senators and brahmin barons would just surrender since continued resistance is pointless.

Caesar hasn't been to the NCR for decades. You meet a working class girl in Sloan who just left and her reason for being there is because the area has stabilized so much that she has to go to the Mojave to see a new frontier at this point.

You also meet some girl in the Happy Trails Caravan who left New Reno because it was a lawless dump ruled by gangsters. And New Reno is NCR territory.

His concerns may be valid but the man himself has no real solution for the issue and is explicitly self sabotaging and suicidal. He's not well in the head and he's not interested in helping either his faction or the Mojave and his chosen course of action completely ignores how potent Hoover dam is with regards to facilitating the kind of expansion either the Legion or the NCR would be capable of once they fully secure it.

Yes, and this guy was the one who actually defeated the Legion last time. Also, Hoover Dam is not a defensible position as you find out in the final battle, since Lanius easily managed to have entire squads of soldiers infiltrate the Dam. So Hanlon is right to want to abandon it. If it wasn't for some OP main character or some killer robots coming in, they'd totally lose the dam against the Legion forces.

The Legion exists because Sallow has a massive ego and his tribes are only really capable of raiding and breaking shit. They're a potent fighting force and they can police their territories but that's all they do. The NCR is the faction building and restoring infrastructure (remember, the dam is largely operational because of them), building up its standard of living and is expanding its civilian and military population base and see above about my point of the NCR being secure.

False. The Legion exists because Sallow's original persona as a loyal NCR citizen was broken when he saw how weak and feeble the NCR truly was. There's no virtue, no honor, everyone in power works for their own self-interest, Oliver became the top general because he kisses ass, the brahmin barons and senators redirect soldiers to protect their own interests, Caesar is right in saying that the NCR isn't built to last and that he's just hastening what is inevitable. The NCR is far from secure. Hell, they can't even protect their own supply routes, while the Legion is so secure that no one dares to raid a caravan with Legion symbols on it.

Building a civilization is reliant on two things; logistics, and credibility. The NCR sucks at logistics because it can't even protect its own caravans, and its credibility is shot to hell all over the place since everywhere in the Mojave, the NCR is struggling while the Legion is just waiting to deal the final blow. The NCR can't even deal with the fucking Fiends or Powder Gangers, problems that a pissed-off mailman with a gun can solve. If these officers of yours can't even solve those problems, which is their responsibility, then defeating the Legion is far beyond them.

You have to remember that he's shooting himself in the foot. He could have had his rangers doing something this whole time and coordinating with the Army units but he refuses because he wants the dream of expansion to die. The rangers could have done a lot more if he gave them latitude and worked with the local Army commanders but he refuses because of his own shellshock. He can be smart and accomplished all day but the fault lies with him probably more than anyone else.

And this again, is the guy who beat the Legion the last time. He's suicidal for a reason, because barring the Courier's interference, the NCR will lose the war in the Mojave, which means that the rich senators and brahmin barons will continue to fuck the NCR into the dirt with their greed and selfishness, letting the rest of the NCR burn so long as the soldiers guard their interests. If there was actually a hope for a conventional victory, Hanlon would probably be more hopeful and more likely to work with Oliver and the others.

For christ sakes nobody cares about Oliver.

And yet he's the leader of the NCR army, because he kissed the right ass. Meanwhile Lanius leads the Legion forces because he proved himself. The cultures of the two forces determine which is the superior force; one side lets politics and ass-kissing determine who leads, while the other side demands results. The latter side will win over the former any day of the week.

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Chief Hanlon and Lanius duel with lightsabers. Hanlon jumps away and yells ''I have the high ground!'' Lanius yells ''YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER!'' and he jumps.

Okay that would legit be hilarious to watch, someone make that in SFM or something on the double.

That's the biggest L for the Brotherhood in Fallout 4. Like sure, put all your personnel and the fucking Elder on a blimp that some dipshit with glorified artillery can blow up.

Imagine if the Institute came out with top-of-the-line artillery far improved from 18th century designs. The Brotherhood would cease to be a problem in an instant.

Shit, the Courier with the Helios One orbital laser can probably shoot down the Prydwen and kill them all in one move.

It's why I unironically love the Minutemen as a faction, they have their issues writing wise but the actual stuff they can pull off once you get them organized and get their shit together is pretty cool. I genuinely do really like the idea of the faction too, a group that are just trying to help people and rebuild society anyway they can is a good group in my book and frankly when he isn't being a radiant quest bot Preston is a pretty cool dude, not as cool as Nick, Handcock, Danse or Piper but he has his redeemable qualities which is why it's such a shame he is saddled with the radiant quest bot duty.

That would be so fucking awesome.

If only, They would probably make Helios One backfire before it could fire lol.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

So I decided to take the plunge into a Fallout 4 Quest mod that was mentioned in this thread a while back.

America Rising 2 - Legacy of the Enclave​

America Rising adds in the Enclave as a faction to Fallout 4, it does this in a very barebones way and fits right in to Fallout 4 with how repetitive and nonsensical it can be.

The Enclave goes from about 11 people on a Oil Rig that was derelict for 10 years to a Faction pumping out power armor 24/7 and having the manpower and vehicle capabilities of the Brotherhood of Steel in 2 or 3 quests. These quests never go beyond Fetch quests with the occasional "Wait 3 days to continue the storyline" Quest or the "Go here, listen to a character speak for a minute and then fuck off to another part of the map." Quest. I felt like I was blitzing through the Main quest line and ignoring other stuff, but I wasn't it was just linear. The only option the player is given is either helping or killing Ghoul Deserters from the Enclave at the start of the questline, and later on you can either Kill the General and the Senator or Rat out the Colonel who asked you to do that.

The Enclave only ever interacts with the Brotherhood of Steel and Institute, and the Brotherhood interaction is just killing them, you can help a Institute scientist Coup the Institute and that skips 3 quests and takes you right to the end. While the player meets with the Railroad and Minuteman, I don't think the names are mentioned once by the Enclave, and you never once interact with them in the Enclave questline. You only ever deal with Remnants once and all of them, despite literally being in hiding and probably hunted, still wear full Enclave uniforms, not even Power Armor just legit Enclave jumpsuits and Military fatigues. At the very least there should have been a another quest or two about finding more Remnants and having to actually rebuild the Enclave, not just find 6 guys in some cellar and go "Oh hey, go back to the Oil Rig." and then suddenly be back up to tip top shape.

The big reward at the end of the questline, The big change helping the Enclave brings to the wasteland? A Dozen of so Enclave flags are added to Diamond City and you can find some Enclave patrol points around the map, That's it. They talk about "Oh, we'll being Law and Order to this wasteland" but all they do by the end of the Mod is blow up a Airship and buy some flags off Amazon and hang them up around Diamond City. I wouldn't have minded if, at the very least, they made you go capture a few Settlements to actually create a Foothold in the Commonwealth. The Enclave only ever captures a single place in the Commonwealth and that's the North Boston Police Station. Didn't expect alot from this mod but still walked away underwhelmed and disappointed.

I am excited to try Fallout London whenever it releases, hopefully the first Fallout 4 Total Conversion is good.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Okay that would legit be hilarious to watch, someone make that in SFM or something on the double.

You can even have Caesar tell Lanius that he has ''restored peace and justice to the nation'' after Lanius goes into the NCR and slaughters the NCR senate.

It's why I unironically love the Minutemen as a faction, they have their issues writing wise but the actual stuff they can pull off once you get them organized and get their shit together is pretty cool. I genuinely do really like the idea of the faction too, a group that are just trying to help people and rebuild society anyway they can is a good group in my book and frankly when he isn't being a radiant quest bot Preston is a pretty cool dude, not as cool as Nick, Handcock, Danse or Piper but he has his redeemable qualities which is why it's such a shame he is saddled with the radiant quest bot duty.

That, and as you rebuild them, they're your army. They truly embody the idea of a people's army more so than the NCR does.

That would be so fucking awesome.

Of course it would.

If only, They would probably make Helios One backfire before it could fire lol.

I suppose so. But then again, the Boomers do exist, so I suppose the Courier can tell them to point their guns at the Prydwen........

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

And how are these idiots going to solve the problem of the Legion being more experienced and more well-trained compared to the average NCR soldier? Moore herself said that the average Legion grunt is far better trained than the average NCR soldier, so even if Oliver and Kimball are out of the picture and Hanlon eats a bullet, these officers you hold so highly are still facing an uphill battle that they will likely lose.

You've never heard of new training regimens? They live in the ruins of the US and they have Brotherhood bunkers they've raided. It's not hard to turn it over to old Army standards.

Not if Caesar gives them a good enough offer. These brahmin barons and senators only wish to preserve their own power. That, and Caesar himself was already seeing the need for compromise, wanting to create a new society based on the best ideas of both the NCR and the Legion, creating a synthesis. Once he starts doing that after he wins, the NCR senators and brahmin barons would probably see that working with Caesar is better than fighting him.

As for Lanius, he'd still be able to crush any NCR force coming up against him with his soldiers who are better trained, and Lanius himself is no slouch on the tactical department, so he'd probably be able to outfox any NCR officer and crush them by the balls, so the NCR senators and brahmin barons would just surrender since continued resistance is pointless

Caesar is dying soon and as good as the Frumentarii are, the rangers are just as, if not more effective. It's going to be a cold war at that point but there's no sign of it being necessarily to Caesar's favor even if his tumor gets fixed once California itself starts getting touched.
Ad for Lanius, the guy lacks the vision to make the Legion work long term and throwing bodies the way he does won't work when he actually has to face the full bill of the NCR while going through a bunch of chokepoints and that's assuming the Legion doesn't have breakaway factions to deal with. Lanius simply doesn't have the foresight.

False. The Legion exists because Sallow's original persona as a loyal NCR citizen was broken when he saw how weak and feeble the NCR truly was. There's no virtue, no honor, everyone in power works for their own self-interest, Oliver became the top general because he kisses ass, the brahmin barons and senators redirect soldiers to protect their own interests, Caesar is right in saying that the NCR isn't built to last and that he's just hastening what is inevitable. The NCR is far from secure. Hell, they can't even protect their own supply routes, while the Legion is so secure that no one dares to raid a caravan with Legion symbols on it.

Building a civilization is reliant on two things; logistics, and credibility. The NCR sucks at logistics because it can't even protect its own caravans, and its credibility is shot to hell all over the place since everywhere in the Mojave, the NCR is struggling while the Legion is just waiting to deal the final blow. The NCR can't even deal with the fucking Fiends or Powder Gangers, problems that a pissed-off mailman with a gun can solve. If these officers of yours can't even solve that problem, which was their responsibility, then defeating the Legion is far beyond them

NCR logistics actually aren't bad in and of themselves. They have the ability to spam soldiers with AR15s and send them everywhere. They have proper paper currency, a solid industrial economy and enough food for people to live on as well as a nascent remedial colony in the area. It's not ability they lack, it's bad leadership, courtesy of Oliver and especially Hanlon.

And this again, is the guy who beat the Legion the last time. He's suicidal for a reason, because barring the Courier's interference, the NCR will lose the war in the Mojave, which means that the rich senators and brahmin barons will continue to fuck the NCR into the dirt with their greed and selfishness, letting the rest of the NCR burn so long as the soldiers guard their interests. If there was actually a hope for a conventional victory, Hanlon would probably be more hopeful and more likely to work with Oliver and the others.

There's definitely hope for a conventional victory, it's just hampered in large part by Hanlon. You're taking the words of a suicidal doomer at face value. If you saw a guy stuffing a living relative into the trunk of a car because he was about to drive it into a lake, you would look at him like he was crazy and you'd rightfully disregard what he's saying. That's what Hanlon is. He's almost like a worse Ulysses.

And yet he's the leader of the NCR army, because he kissed the right ass. Meanwhile Lanius leads the Legion forces because he proved himself. The cultures of the two forces determine which is the superior force; one side lets politics and ass-kissing determine who leads, while the other side demands results. The latter side will win over the former any day of the week.

Yes, Lanius is better than Oliver. So what? Even Lanius admits that he's only winning because that is such a shallow jump to make. Pretty much any other officer would have won by now. Hell, Oliver would likely win if Hanlon didn't get in his feelings and screw himself over because "muh overextension" and "muh greed". A huge portion of the NCRs issues can be traced back to the guy who's smartest willingly fucking himself to prove a point.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You've never heard of new training regimens? They live in the ruins of the US and they have Brotherhood bunkers they've raided. It's not hard to turn it over to old Army standards.

Will they have the time to implement such regimens, that is my question. Legion troops were trained all their life. NCR troops are trained in weeks and sent out to die. That's not enough time to learn new tactics, let alone how to execute complex ambushes and other things the Legion troops know by heart.

Caesar is dying soon and as good as the Frumentarii are, the rangers are just as, if not more effective. It's going to be a cold war at that point but there's no sign of it being necessarily to Caesar's favor even if his tumor gets fixed once California itself starts getting touched.

Rangers can't infiltrate the Legion, that's the problem. The Legion probably has spies all over the NCR. Frumentarii are at their best in infiltration, not combat.

Also, once California gets touched, the senators and brahmin barons will do as they did and focus most of the defenses around their interests, damn everyone else. Which means more people will surrender because the NCR doesn't give a rat's ass about the average bum.

Ad for Lanius, the guy lacks the vision to make the Legion work long term and throwing bodies the way he does won't work when he actually has to face the full bill of the NCR while going through a bunch of chokepoints and that's assuming the Legion doesn't have breakaway factions to deal with. Lanius simply doesn't have the foresight.

He'll still keep the Legion lasting long enough to burn the NCR to the ground, or at least force the NCR to surrender. Hell, he's far superior to all NCR officers and generals in terms of warfare; if anything, he'll succeed in destroying the NCR first before his lack of political tact starts affecting the Legion. Lanius' Legion will start breaking apart after they burn down the NCR and there's nothing left to conquer.

NCR logistics actually aren't bad in and of themselves. They have the ability to spam soldiers with AR15s and send them everywhere. They have proper paper currency, a solid industrial economy and enough food for people to live on as well as a nascent remedial colony in the area. It's not ability they lack, it's bad leadership, courtesy of Oliver and especially Hanlon.

LOL that's not even true. Most of their soldiers are barely equipped with service rifles and armor; some are even left with pistols, and even then, they're up against Legion forces who are just as well-armed, but are far better trained. Also, the paper currency is the least valuable currency in the west; Legion gold and bottle caps are both more valuable. Their economy is barely functional, at best, at a medieval level where rich families provide things like firearms or food, which means that if Caesar reaches out to these families and offers them a better deal, they'll turn traitor and feed and arm the Legion instead.

On the contrary, Hanlon is the only NCR leader worthy of being a threat to the Legion. The rest are just bureaucrats, footsloggers, and ass-kissers, nowhere near Lanius or Vulpes in terms of quality, let alone the average Legion Centurion. Without Hanlon, Joshua Graham would've crushed the NCR in their first war with the Legion, and the NCR would've lost far earlier.

There's definitely hope for a conventional victory, it's just hampered in large part by Hanlon. You're taking the words of a suicidal doomer at face value. If you saw a guy stuffing a living relative into the trunk of a car because he was about to drive it into a lake, you would look at him like he was crazy and you'd rightfully disregard what he's saying. That's what Hanlon is. He's almost like a worse Ulysses.

Said suicidal doomer is the best tactician in the NCR lineup. He's the only reason the NCR won in the first place against Graham, who was no slouch himself. And no, conventionally, the NCR would get crushed like a bug if the Courier died in Goodsprings or didn't get involved at all.

Yes, Lanius is better than Oliver. So what? Even Lanius admits that he's only winning because that is such a shallow jump to make. Pretty much any other officer would have won by now. Hell, Oliver would likely win if Hanlon didn't get in his feelings and screw himself over because "muh overextension" and "muh greed". A huge portion of the NCRs issues can be traced back to the guy who's smartest willingly fucking himself to prove a point.

False. Lanius is better than everyone in the NCR save for Hanlon. And even if we took Hanlon out of the picture, Oliver and everyone else under him would lose because Lanius already infiltrated Hoover Dam with his troops, meaning that taking the Dam will be child's play for him and the rest of the Mojave will fall one piece at a time. The NCR troops can't even defeat the fucking Powder Gangers and the Fiends. Trained Legion troops will make mincemeat out of them even if we removed Hanlon as a factor.

You keep blaming the NCR's problems on Hanlon, when the man literally is the only reason the NCR won their first war with the Legion.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Will they have the time to implement such regimens, that is my question. Legion troops were trained all their life. NCR troops are trained in weeks and sent out to die. That's not enough time to learn new tactics, let alone how to execute complex ambushes and other things the Legion troops know by heart.

Basic tactics and training can be done within 12 weeks under proper conditions.

Rangers can't infiltrate the Legion, that's the problem. The Legion probably has spies all over the NCR. Frumentarii are at their best in infiltration, not combat.

Also, once California gets touched, the senators and brahmin barons will do as they did and focus most of the defenses around their interests, damn everyone else. Which means more people will surrender because the NCR doesn't give a rat's ass about the average bum

I admit the rangers aren't seen committing much subterfuge but they're still very able at intelligence if only because they have deeper ranks to draw from. Frumentarii are a budding agency at best and their effectiveness with Tribals won't entirely translate against California itself.

He'll still keep the Legion lasting long enough to burn the NCR to the ground, or at least force the NCR to surrender. Hell, he's far superior to all NCR officers and generals in terms of warfare; if anything, he'll succeed in destroying the NCR first before his lack of political tact starts affecting the Legion. Lanius' Legion will start breaking apart after they burn down the NCR and there's nothing left to conquer

His lack of tact starts affecting the Legion from the start. Sending hordes to die at the Boomers, killing promising assets like the Followers and smashing everything in New Vegas to the point that he might as well have not bothered conquering it demonstrates that he's going to waste his manpower to a worse extent than the NCR ever could in just maintaining his conquests.

LOL that's not even true. Most of their soldiers are barely equipped with service rifles and armor; some are even left with pistols, and even then, they're up against Legion forces who are just as well-armed, but are far better trained. Also, the paper currency is the least valuable currency in the west; Legion gold and bottle caps are both more valuable. Their economy is barely functional, at best, at a medieval level where rich families provide things like firearms or food, which means that if Caesar reaches out to these families and offers them a better deal, they'll turn traitor and feed and arm the Legion instead

I'm not sure what game you played. There's are multiple full fledged corporations backing the NCR MIC. The NCR isn't doing its best giving them the supplies but it's producing them and turning out more than kids with machetes.

Said suicidal doomer is the best tactician in the NCR lineup. He's the only reason the NCR won in the first place against Graham, who was no slouch himself. And no, conventionally, the NCR would get crushed like a bug if the Courier died in Goodsprings or didn't get involved at all.

They might have lost the Mojave that's true, but that's not because it isn't an able war machine. Those footsloggers and bureaucrats are very keen assets for an army to have. You need people like that to keep any kind of effective army going and that broken mad man was worse than useless in turning on his own mission.

False. Lanius is better than everyone in the NCR save for Hanlon. And even if we took Hanlon out of the picture, Oliver and everyone else under him would lose because Lanius already infiltrated Hoover Dam with his troops, meaning that taking the Dam will be child's play for him and the rest of the Mojave will fall one piece at a time. The NCR troops can't even defeat the fucking Powder Gangers and the Fiends. Trained Legion troops will make mincemeat out of them even if we removed Hanlon as a factor

The NCR can absolutely wipe the floor with the powder gangers and that's exactly what happens when you go far enough down that quest line on either perspective. All it takes is a platoon and they will render the prison floors slick with blood if you let the battle play out from the sidelines.

You keep blaming the NCR's problems on Hanlon, when the man literally is the only reason the NCR won their first war with the Legion

The man won the first battle so its OK for him to throw the second?

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

You can even have Caesar tell Lanius that he has ''restored peace and justice to the nation'' after Lanius goes into the NCR and slaughters the NCR senate.

I mean Lanius would be a Sith if we are being honest so if we are doing the iconic Mustafar battle then he would lose. I'm not even a Legion ball washer and I would prefer him to win, cause objectively he would.

That, and as you rebuild them, they're your army. They truly embody the idea of a people's army more so than the NCR does.

Exatcly, they are basically a mix of the NCR and the Yes Man route taking the better parts of post at the cost of worse writing.

Of course it would.

True, love em or hate em the Institute has the potential so much awesome shit that 4 squandered big time, shame since the build up established in 3 via the replicated man quest is kinda neat.

I suppose so. But then again, the Boomers do exist, so I suppose the Courier can tell them to point their guns at the Prydwen........

OH MY GOD THAT WOULD BE SO FUCKING PERFECT AND HILARIOUS! Man now I want to see that happen, like just imagine the Prydwen getting taken down by a old ass bomber that came outta nowhere, that would be hilarious. Brotherhood cucks on suicide watch.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Oh Jesus, I go to bed and wake up to this?

 

[Tsukasa Kadoya]

you are all being autistic. this is why im not a lorefag for the fallouts

Honestly Lore, unless its majorly fucked up or retconned, doesn't matter to me. "REEEEE FALLOUT 4 IS LEH BAD BECAUSE JET IS IN A PREWAR VAULT!" Anyone could have brought that in there. It could have been raiders who found the vault before the Gunners did in 2287. It might not be pre-war.
"REEEEEE WHY DOES FALLOUT 3 AND 4 USE BOTTLECAPS? THATS JUST NOSTLAGIA BAITING!" The hub's reach could easily have stretched beyond the west coast for all we know. And contrary to what retard fans think, there is more to the series than the fucking desert.
Now I've talked about the show and how unlike everyone else here I didn't hate it. A lot of the "Memba VAULTS? MEMBA SUGAR BOMBS?" shit was grating, and the "wanna have sex?" part was so bad I had to pause the show and play Red Alert 2 for an hour, but otherwise I did not hate it.
EXCEPT....

Spoiler: Spoilers for anyone who gives a shit, IDK

Nuking Shady Sands in 2277. If it had been nuked like around 2283 or 2284, after NV I wouldn't have minded. But this was sheer laziness on their part not to at least check the dates.

So yeah major fuckups bother me, but being an autistic nitpicker who gets mad over small shit is embarrassing.

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Oh Jesus, I go to bed and wake up to this?

I know how you feel I woke up to the majority of it.

 

[Big Brown Schlub]

It honestly gets a worse rap than it deserves. It's a very solid game and there were clearly attempts made to marry it into Fallout canon, as well as maintain many of the series' core design principles. Quests in F3 have a lot of choices and options.

It's because of hbaldingguy's video on it. Funny that he made that video about plagiarism because his anti-Fallout 3 video took all its points from an old 4chan post which eviscerated Fallout 3. And while yeah Fallout 3 has a bunch of flaws it at least still captures the look, feel and grit of the original Fallouts. It's the first Fallout I played to completion and while I don't like it as much as I did back in the day, the only real problem I have with it nowaday is that it's an old game so just like New Vegas I have to install half a dozen stability mods just to get it run decently on my current machine. But that's not really much of a problem, takes only 30 minutes max to set it all up and afterwards it plays fine. I haven't replayed Fallout 3 recently but I did New Vegas and with the stability mods I had a grand total of 0 crashes.

 

[God of Nothing]

Oh Jesus, I go to bed and wake up to this?

NCRcucks, my friend
and autists

 

[TVB]

Oh Jesus, I go to bed and wake up to this?

I do not blame you, and I'm not surprised about this either

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

But when every faction is retarded and annoying what's that matter?

True.
I'm always siding with the Insitute. For some reason i prefer that ending before a reskin of the same fucking nuclear explosion.