Fallout series

Shidoen said:
He's gonna get fat if he runs the wastelands Byzantine, I forsee it.
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Course he will. Fat, lazy, and even older, with plenty of slaves to cater to his needs, and a degenerated army that expects their guns to do all the hard work for them. You know, like if the NCR allowed slavery.

But that just means the good old Roman three-way civil war between him, Lanius, and Vulpes is all the more exciting.
 
Snekposter said:
Course he will. Fat, lazy, and even older, with plenty of slaves to cater to his needs, and a degenerated army that expects their guns to do all the hard work for them. You know, like if the NCR allowed slavery.

But that just means the good old Roman three-way civil war between him, Lanius, and Vulpes is all the more exciting.
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Lanius would probably make a Sparta like society, making everyone bare-chested and fuck boys. Vulpes would make a merchant-type city with anything going and a secret police. As basic as it is the praetorians would probably be medieval like the Holy Roman Empire.
 
Shidoen said:
Lanius would probably make a Sparta like society, making everyone bare-chested and fuck boys. Vulpes would make a merchant-type city with anything going and a secret police. As basic as it is the praetorians would probably be medieval like the Holy Roman Empire.
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I mean, the Varangians were pretty damn badass. Also based:
1649920616461.png

"Na man, fuck that dude. The rapist son of a bitch had it coming. Here's his shit as compensation for his crimes."
 
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I wish New Vegas actually went into the Legion with as much detail as they did NCR. Most of the map and quest lines are dominated by helping the NCR or dealing with internal factors that showcases the NCR, their people, benefits, and drawbacks.

The Legion is sequestered away to a tiny portion of the map with a fraction of the quests. Yes this is done to make the Legion efficient and not needing the Courier to babysit the faction to victory like the other 3 endings, but at the expense of showcasing Legion society, actual tangible benefits and negatives that the Courier can see and interact with.

It all ties back to Obsidian being shit at time management. Like, does the NCR need an unscripted quest about fixing the NCR mess hall for simple reason that the food sucked all for a negligible reward?
 
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Saturnalia-1918 said:
The Legion is sequestered away to a tiny portion of the map with a fraction of the quests. Yes this is done to make the Legion efficient and not needing the Courier to babysit the faction to victory like the other 3 endings, but at the expense of showcasing Legion society, actual tangible benefits and negatives that the Courier can see and interact with
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If the Legion is as efficient as Obaidian says it is then it's mainly just going to be walking along toll roads and dealing with the occasional wild dog attack when you're not fixing a laptop. As I said earlier, the New Vegas region is the last real major area in that part of the setting where nothing is settled yet. The NCR tamed California decades ago and cleared all the major trade routes at least and the Legion resolved a million different issues in Arizona. What you're seeing is each faction drawing straws to tame the last of the Wild West.
 
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Saturnalia-1918 said:
I wish New Vegas actually went into the Legion with as much detail as they did NCR. Most of the map and quest lines are dominated by helping the NCR or dealing with internal factors that showcases the NCR, their people, benefits, and drawbacks.

The Legion is sequestered away to a tiny portion of the map with a fraction of the quests. Yes this is done to make the Legion efficient and not needing the Courier to babysit the faction to victory like the other 3 endings, but at the expense of showcasing Legion society, actual tangible benefits and negatives that the Courier can see and interact with.

It all ties back to Obsidian being shit at time management. Like, does the NCR need an unscripted quest about fixing the NCR mess hall for simple reason that the food sucked all for a negligible reward?
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They definitely played favorites, we're lucky The Legion got the development they did. But the devs were faggots and just sort of thought about them as 'the bad guys' and Avellone is on record (I think) saying that they shouldn't have been joinable and should have just been like The Enclave. They really needed some expansion, another map that showed their society would have been an excellent addition to the game and I would have gladly skipped out on Honest Hearts or something in exchange for a DLC that fleshed them out some more.
Shadfan666xxx000 said:
If the Legion is as efficient as Obaidian says it is then it's mainly just going to be walking along toll roads and dealing with the occasional wild dog attack when you're not fixing a laptop. As I said earlier, the New Vegas region is the last real major area in that part of the setting where nothing is settled yet. The NCR tamed California decades ago and cleared all the major trade routes at least and the Legion resolved a million different issues in Arizona. What you're seeing is each faction drawing straws to tame the last of the Wild West.
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Eh, I disagree, you could have come up with plenty of fun content to explore regarding The Legion controlled zones. Even then, contrasting their area to Vegas' untamed dangers wouldn't have been a bad idea. You could work to undermine them from within, could have put down insurrectionists, helped some slaves escape or caught escaped slaves, there's plenty of opportunity for action and quest design.
 
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Mega Black said:
They definitely played favorites, we're lucky The Legion got the development they did. But the devs were faggots and just sort of thought about them as 'the bad guys' and Avellone is on record (I think) saying that they shouldn't have been joinable and should have just been like The Enclave. They really needed some expansion, another map that showed their society would have been an excellent addition to the game and I would have gladly skipped out on Honest Hearts or something in exchange for a DLC that fleshed them out some more.
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Sawyer was actually all in favor of Legion content with Ulysses originally intended to be a pro-Legion base game companion. Some of his posts about Legion society and culture are spicy even for when he made them, never mind Current Year. Not that his statements are factually incorrect, quite the opposite. Caesar was written as a brutally utilitarian conqueror with little regard for anything besides productivity, either in a civilian stance of product output, military stance of successful conquest, or fertility stance of repopulating the wastes.
https://archive.ph/wLfo0
Why are people so obsessed with the "balance" between the different gendered roles under the Legion? I've never said it's balanced. But there is very clearly a trend among people questioning the Legion to project the concept of military service as a noble endeavor (for which one is rewarded, no less) onto legionnaires when it's never presented in that way. They are slave soldiers. Service is not voluntary, they can't retire, there are no parades and pats on the back for them. They aren't Roman patrician officers who are going to retire to a Tuscan estate when they turn 50.

The only power that male legionaries have is to serve Caesar well enough to be promoted to a position of more responsibility. Nothing really comes with that additional responsibility other than increased scrutiny and better equipment (to match the increased danger).

Most of my commentary on this topic has been to highlight the following:

* Caesar's Legion is subdivided (by Caesar) based on gendered/sexed roles. These subdivisions are sexist (inherently), but they are neither misogynistic nor misandric.
* Legionaries under Caesar are not like Roman patrician officers. They are not part of a larger society that celebrates and rewards military service with things like conference of honorific titles, triumphs, etc. All legionaries are slave soldiers, period.
* The opinions of individual legionaries are not the opinions of Caesar. These individuals may make misogynistic comments, but those comments did not originate with Caesar, nor is there any reason to believe that he shares them, given his willingness to employ a female courier.

If you want to weigh the individual horror of rape and forced child-bearing against forced military service for life, knock yourself out. It's two terrible ways to go through life.
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I'm surprised Sawyer's Something Awful posts are still up.
https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...erid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=27#post396098060
Yes, he does suggest that. He says that when the Legion dominates NCR, it will be akin to the rise of the Roman Empire following the republic. The Legion will become, if not a "peace" force, a domestic army instead of a roving war band, and the NCR's corruption will be swept away along with the government.

Arcade isn't exaggerating when he suggests that Caesar views the Colorado River as his Rubicon.

e: It's true that Caesar doesn't say anything explicitly about the role of women, but Caesar's view of women is different from most of the legionaries. As I wrote above, the Legion is at war, and he views the use of women for military purposes as a bad strategic choice when he could be using them to create more legionaries.
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Saturnalia-1918 said:
I wish New Vegas actually went into the Legion with as much detail as they did NCR. Most of the map and quest lines are dominated by helping the NCR or dealing with internal factors that showcases the NCR, their people, benefits, and drawbacks.

The Legion is sequestered away to a tiny portion of the map with a fraction of the quests. Yes this is done to make the Legion efficient and not needing the Courier to babysit the faction to victory like the other 3 endings, but at the expense of showcasing Legion society, actual tangible benefits and negatives that the Courier can see and interact with.

It all ties back to Obsidian being shit at time management. Like, does the NCR need an unscripted quest about fixing the NCR mess hall for simple reason that the food sucked all for a negligible reward?
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I just recently started re-playing FNV so I could finally complete the Legion story line. I've gotten all the other endings so it's unfortunate to hear that it's not very well fleshed out comparatively. I mean, I'm still going to do it, but that's a bummer. Oh well. The main reason I'm replaying it is because I miss the DLC anyway. FNV has the best DLC of all the games in the franchise IMO.
 
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Playing Fallout 4 and... yeah, I don't see why everyone compares the BoS to the Enclave. The BoS hates mutants and ghouls, but you never see them stomp into Goodneighbor and purge the place. Hell, you never even find them burning ghoul corpses in an old grain silo like you found with the Enclave in Fallout 3.
The Brotherhood has ALWAYS hated mutants and ghouls to some extent, but they only really went after the muties because they were a threat. They mostly leave ghouls alone so long as the ghouls keep to themselves.

I'd say the Fallout 4 BoS is a lot more like the Midwestern BoS without the accepting ghouls, muties, and talking deathclaws shit. They actively patrol the Commonwealth and engage hostiles, they are willing to recruit from the wasteland, and they expect payment in food for their protection.
 
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Exceptionally Exceptional said:
Playing Fallout 4 and... yeah, I don't see why everyone compares the BoS to the Enclave. The BoS hates mutants and ghouls, but you never see them stomp into Goodneighbor and purge the place. Hell, you never even find them burning ghoul corpses in an old grain silo like you found with the Enclave in Fallout 3.
The Brotherhood has ALWAYS hated mutants and ghouls to some extent, but they only really went after the muties because they were a threat. They mostly leave ghouls alone so long as the ghouls keep to themselves.

I'd say the Fallout 4 BoS is a lot more like the Midwestern BoS without the accepting ghouls, muties, and talking deathclaws shit. They actively patrol the Commonwealth and engage hostiles, they are willing to recruit from the wasteland, and they expect payment in food for their protection.
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I know, it's hilarious how people spaz about how the Brotherhood are "genocidal fascists" but have no concrete evidence beyond "racist against mutants" and having a military aesthetic.

The Brotherhood isn't even the most anti mutant faction in the Commonwealth. Diamond City has actively contributed to more ghoul deaths than the Brotherhood when they expelled all ghouls from the City. It wasn't even done through subversive means, they democratically elected Mayor Mcdonough on the stance of ghoul expulsion.

Even the Railroad has a ghoul problem. Terminal entries from previous leader Pinky mentions that when Deacon made himself look like a ghoul it freaked people out and caused Pinky to kick him out of HQ.
 
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