Fallout series

And didn't FO Tactics and BoS do the same thing? I mean, it's kind of disingenuous to attack FO3 for it when two previous Fallout games that came out after FO2 did the same damn thing of re-using old factions from older games or turning the BoS into a police force.
Tactics and BoS were viewed as the shittiest games in the franchise before Bethesda bought the IP. This is an even worse defense of 3 than "NV is unoriginal". You're putting it on the level of two spinoffs that also ignore the established setting to do their own thing and these games are disliked by fallout fans for that very reason.
 
Tactics and BoS were viewed as the shittiest games in the franchise before Bethesda bought the IP. This is an even worse defense of 3 than "NV is unoriginal". You're putting it on the level of two spinoffs that also ignore the established setting to do their own thing and these games are disliked by fallout fans for that very reason.
Last I heard, Tactics was considered somewhat decent by the fans.
 
No, my point is that RPG game companies re-use tropes to a hilarious extent.

People don't "use tropes." This would be like saying people "use" their own blood to carry oxygen and nutrients to the areas that need then.

Stories have elements that support dramatic structuring. Calling them "tropes" neither values nor devalues them. Tropes simply are. Without them, stories would just be encyclopedias.
 
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Next time, try not to be so thin-skinned that you interpret a simple observation as an attack
Sure thing autismo, nothing thin skinned about the way you act. God forbid someone call you out for crowbarring Star Wars into every single conversation you have you dumb faggot.
God have mercy, if this is the state of the Fallout fanbase, then we truly deserve Fallout 76.
Oh mai fanbase! Mai sweet fanbase! If you think I'm an obnoxious autistic faggot then the whole fandom is in dire straights.

My God could you be any more pathetic?
 
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Sure thing autismo, nothing think skinned about the way you act. God forbid someone call you out for crowbarring Star Wars into every single conversation you have you dumb faggot.

Oh mai fanbase! Mai sweet fanbase! If you think I'm an obnoxious autistic faggot then the whole fandom is in dire straights.

My God could you be any more pathetic?

He says this about Star Wars too. Like, "Oh, you disagree with me? Then you deserve your shitty movies/games."

Really is obnoxious.
 
the fanbase consists of mostly people who never played the first game praising the second and new vegas while having been introduced through three
grognard old fags who never played beyond the first two
neo-revisionists trannies trying to psy-op people into thinking NV is le heckin tranny core
and people who like 76

all of you smell like bitch to me
now excuse me, hehehe, legion say true to caesar and slave girls
 
Sure thing autismo, nothing thin skinned about the way you act. God forbid someone call you out for crowbarring Star Wars into every single conversation you have you dumb faggot.
Anyone can check my posts on my own page and see that's a lie.

Oh mai fanbase! Mai sweet fanbase! If you think I'm an obnoxious autistic faggot then the whole fandom is in dire straights.

My God could you be any more pathetic?
I don't know. How's about being so pathetic that you think someone pointing out a few things similar is somehow an attack. THAT is pathetic. I'm a guy who loves FNV, yet me pointing out some similarities between it and KOTOR 2, another work written by Avellone, is somehow tantamount to me shitting on FNV.
 
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is somehow an attack

LI, you should probably acknowlwdge there are a lot of folks here who are smarter than you and don't appreciate the way you talk down when speaking about whatever you deem is or is not insightful.

Most people with a modicum's worth of story knowledge accept as common sense what you think is somehow enlightening commentary anyway. You come across like a Redditor in some kino thread talking about how story stuff happened which has meaning 'n sheit.

Yes, stories mean things. Good job. 👍

And yes, stories have similarities with each other. FNV isn't more or less exceptional for passing the bar at simply having a story with elements other stories have.
 
LI, you should probably acknowlwdge there are a lot of folks here who are smarter than you and don't appreciate the way you talk down when speaking about whatever you deem is or is not insightful.

Most people with a modicum's worth of story knowledge accept as common sense what you think is somehow enlightening commentary anyway. You come across like a Redditor in some kino thread talking about how story stuff happened which has meaning 'n sheit.

Yes, stories mean things. Good job. 👍

And yes, stories have similarities with each other. FNV isn't more or less exceptional for passing the bar at simply having a story with elements other stories have.
Yet the similarities are way too many for it to just be ''hurr durr, stories use tropes''.

For example, the original Van Buren had the Brotherhood/NCR war going on full-swing just as the NCR-Legion war is going in full swing. Meaning that unlike the hapless, weak NCR we see in FNV, the NCR in the original Van Buren was powerful enough to stand its ground and fight two enemies at the same time. In fact, the NCR was more proactive in the original Van Buren; not only were they waging war against the Legion and the BoS at the same time, but they were the ones who declared war on the Legion because they saw the Legion as a potential rival.

Whereas in FNV, the BoS/NCR war is long past its peak, the BoS had retreated to the point where they're no longer a threat, so that the story for FNV can have the ''STRONG EMPIRE, WEAK REPUBLIC'' conflict that KOTOR already did. The NCR got attacked by the Legion first, just because the Legion was expanding westward and the NCR was in the way.

Just as with the NCR, the Legion leadership was changed from what it once was in Van Buren to become more similar to KOTOR's Sith. You originally had no name for the guy who would one day become ''Caesar'', he was just some no-name Follower of the Apocalypse, and it's hinted at that there'd been multiple Caesars already, since you can become the new Caesar by killing the current one.

Instead, what we see in FNV is that we have a former Republic citizen serving as a visionary, who united disparate factions into one strong army, with a mad brute serving as his enforcer, which is what formed the Sith in KOTOR.

Van Buren's original Legion vs. NCR conflict was far less similar to KOTOR's Jedi-Sith war than FNV's Legion vs. NCR conflict was. The Legion's leader was some nameless chump who killed the last guy who sat on the throne, whereas the NCR was far from the helpless ''damsel in distress'' faction that we got in the FNV game. It was able to wage war on two fronts, showing itself to be effective and efficient, not the dilapidated mess that was drowning in red tape that we got in FNV. Unlike in FNV, where the Legion is the big scary threat that the Enclave, BoS, and NCR all have to gang up on, the NCR in Van Buren is the kind of monster that can put up a fight against both the Legion and the Brotherhood without breaking stride.
 
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the fanbase consists of mostly people who never played the first game.
There are basically three groups of Fallout fans. Those who played the first two games when they came out and just want CRPGs. Those who started with Bethesda Fallouts and just like the mindless action gameplay and want the franchise to eliminate its RPG elements and fully become Skyrim or Starfield. And those who started with Bethesda Fallouts but now prefer the RPG mechanics and don't want Bethesda style games anymore including many who went back and played through the first two games.

The Bethesda action fans pretty much are the only target audience for Fallout anymore. No matter how popular New Vegas might be. No matter how in demand a remake of Fallout 1 or 2 might be. Bethesda clearly wants to revise the Fallout franchise into an action series of 'good guy versus bad guy'. Brotherhood versus Enclave. Commonwealth versus Supermutants. Fallout is now a loot based action shooter and always online 'live service' game.
 
Yet the similarities are way too many

Too many? Compared to what? You keep making these weird determinations with zero actual basis.

What, in your mind, are the optimal amount of similarities stories are allowed to have, why did you arrive at that number, and why should anyone accept it as a standard?
 
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There are basically three groups of Fallout fans. Those who played the first two games when they came out and just want CRPGs. Those who started with Bethesda Fallouts and just like the mindless action gameplay and want the franchise to eliminate its RPG elements and fully become Skyrim or Starfield. And those who started with Bethesda Fallouts but now prefer the RPG mechanics and don't want Bethesda style games anymore including many who went back and played through the first two games.

The Bethesda action fans pretty much are the only target audience for Fallout anymore. No matter how popular New Vegas might be. No matter how in demand a remake of Fallout 1 or 2 might be. Bethesda clearly wants to revise the Fallout franchise into an action series of 'good guy versus bad guy'. Brotherhood versus Enclave. Commonwealth versus Supermutants. Fallout is now a loot based action shooter and always online 'live service' game.
A remake of Fallout 1 and 2 would likely not be the same game as it was in the 90s. In fact, they'd probably make it into Fallout 3 or 4, and given current times, would likely change the story. Do you really want them to change something you hold dear from the past? It's like what I said in the Razorfist thread about the guy constantly wanting Elric and Thief to get more exposure than Witcher or Metal Gear; some things are best left in the past, and the less notoriety they get, the better. Best to enjoy FO1 and FO2 in peace, and let Bethesda crash their version of Fallout into an iceberg.

Too many? Compared to what? You keep making these weird determinations with zero actual basis.

What, in your mind, are the optimal amount of similarities stories are allowed to have, why did you arrive at that number, and why should anyone accept it as a standard?
I already placed my long-ass list of examples. And again, why are you treating this as if I attacked New Vegas, when it was just a casual observation?
 
@LORD IMPERATOR

A remake of Fallout 1 and 2 would likely not be the same game as it was in the 90s. In fact, they'd probably make it into Fallout 3 or 4, and given current times, would likely change the story.
A quick remaster with the quality of life mods like actually being able interact with the inventories of your companions. Or being able to control the font and text size of the dialog that is displayed. Widescreen support and so on. Maybe remastered audio as well and better audio balancing when spoken dialog is happening. And bug fixes and quest fixes for stuff was that was broken.

No one wants a full remake because no studio could do it properly without infecting Fallout with their own head-canon or design choices.
 
@LORD IMPERATOR

A quick remaster with the quality of life mods like actually being able interact with the inventories of your companions. Or being able to control the font and text size of the dialog that is displayed. Widescreen support and so on. Maybe remastered audio as well and better audio balancing when spoken dialog is happening. And bug fixes and quest fixes for stuff was that was broken.
I'm pretty sure some dedicated modders can do that for free.

No one wants a full remake because no studio could do it properly without infecting Fallout with their own head-canon or design choices.
That is my point exactly. Were it any other time, a remake would be warranted, even welcomed, but we live in an era of clashing agendas and people with big egos who think they can deface other people's work and call it genius. A remake would only be tarnished with all sorts of changes to the story and design that would no longer make the game what it was when it first came out.
 
I already placed my long-ass list of examples.

You listing examples of instances all by themselves doesn't make or break whatever you think is or isn't optimal. All you've said is there's stuff you think is similar.

Yes, you can find similarities. You've said "too many" like that means anything.

why are you treating this as if I attacked New Vegas

I just asked you what you meant by "too many."

Why can't you answer a simple question? Seems like you're not actually thinking about things before you say them.

Is it 10? 1000? Do 10,000 similarities that constitute too many?
 
You listing examples of instances all by themselves doesn't make or break whatever you think is or isn't optimal. All you've said is there's stuff you think is similar.

Yes, you can find similarities. You've said "too many" like that means anything.
These are similarities among the major plotlines, which is especially funny considering the original Van Buren storyline wasn't as similar to KOTOR as FNV was. Meaning that these similarities got introduced when Avellone, the man who wrote KOTOR 2, was given the task of making FNV as the new version of what was Van Buren.

I just asked you what you meant by "too many."

Why can't you answer a simple question? Seems like you're not actually thinking about things before you say them.

Is it 10? 1000? Do 10,000 similarities that constitute too many?
Around 5-8, I suppose. Especially when they're major plot points.

-Armored, high-tech warriors driven into hiding after losing a war with the Republic that you can seek out, befriend, and get their armor.
-A weak, dilapidated Republic fighting against an efficient, but cruel fascist regime.
-The pointlessly cruel fascist regime being led by an ex-Republic visionary and a tall, ruthless man serving as his muscle.
-A wealthy person with an army of robots serving as a third wheel in trying to influence events and stabilize things.
-The two sides fighting over a piece of technology that's a source of power.
-The Republic side having a class of soldier that's so elite the normie soldiers worship the ground they walk on.
-There's a climactic battle where your friends all come together to help you as a masked swordsman with an army and a scary reputation launches a surprise attack on the weakened Republic.
-Finally, there's a boss fight against an author avatar who happens to be a jaded asshole who used to work with the fascists, whose main narrative purpose is to shit on both sides, the fight happens in a devastated landscape littered with corpses, and said land that got decimated thanks to your character's past actions.

They wouldn't be so noticeable if they weren't major plot points.
 
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