Fallout series

[Big Brown Schlub]

I can't say I relate with those NV fans on Reddit who claim to have sunk 1000 hours into the game but "never did a Legion run" . Seeing dialogue and events you were locked out of before has always been part of the fun of a role-playing game, personally. I appreciate that at the very least they aren't petitioning to have evil content removed for not being heckin wholesome.

The only problem with the Legion run is how bereft of content it is. Having a few more sidequests would've made it way more compelling. It's a shame a lot of their shit got cut due to time constraints.

That and general just exploring areas you didn't before or just didn't think to before. There are so many areas and things in NV alone you might miss on a playthrough if you just follow the game's directions.

Or just trying a different build, or trying a meme build. Last one I did was a Mr. House's yojimbo build where I only used the katana for 90% of the game and it was a blast.

Quite frankly those people are just retarded.

They are small-souled individuals who lack theory of mind, so they can't imagine the in-game player character not being a complete representation of themselves and can't roleplay as anyone but themselves. It's why writing in media in general took a nosedive, all characters are two-dimensional at best (sometimes even main characters end up being one-dimensional characters that's how bad things have gotten) and there's never any character development. We'll never see something like the Sopranos again, a show where all the main characters are disgusting sociopathic murderers and thugs but get humanized so well through showing their various quirks that they end up being likable, sympathetic and even relatable.

 

[Snekposter]

I can't say I relate with those NV fans on Reddit who claim to have sunk 1000 hours into the game but "never did a Legion run" . Seeing dialogue and events you were locked out of before has always been part of the fun of a role-playing game, personally. I appreciate that at the very least they aren't petitioning to have evil content removed for not being heckin wholesome.

I have. Once. And it kinda sucked since there's not much to do.

 

[Bob Barbas]

I have. Once. And it kinda sucked since there's not much to do.

Yeah, that's an issue that both Fallout 3 and New Vegas shared in that there just isn't that much content for evil characters.
I do know for Fallout 3 there was originally going to be an entire raider settlement you could join and they had an arena and shit even you could likely participate in ect. But for whatever reason it all ended up being cut and turned into another generic dungeon.
At least we still got paradise falls but the schtick does get a bit old quickly.

With New Vegas, well we already know the story there. They wanted to have a legion friendly companion but just didn't have time or the disc space to make it happen.
Then they decided to turn that companion into the schizo antagonist of a DLC.

 

[Snekposter]

Yeah, that's an issue that both Fallout 3 and New Vegas shared in that there just isn't that much content for evil characters.
I do know for Fallout 3 there was originally going to be an entire raider settlement you could join and they had an arena and shit even you could likely participate in ect. But for whatever reason it all ended up being cut and turned into another generic dungeon.
At least we still got paradise falls but the schtick does get a bit old quickly.

With New Vegas, well we already know the story there. They wanted to have a legion friendly companion but just didn't have time or the disc space to make it happen.
Then they decided to turn that companion into the schizo antagonist of a DLC.

Yeah, I've looked into the planned Legion stuff they had and it definitely would have shown them in a different light from how they are at the frontlines of a major warzone.

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

Most of them are people who are trying to, for lack of a belter term, virtue signal about how "I'm such a good person, I won't even do bad things in video games!"

Did Bethesda games ever actually reward you for being good/bad outside dialogue choice? RDR2 played hugely into this stat despite being somewhat hidden. I'd fucking love to be a John Iron who shows up and people are like "oh hey it's him" or run away in fear. The entire good/evil concept has just boiled down to evil being faster and easier, and good being longer and more difficult for the sake of rest in your soul (and often better gear).

NV had mediocre writing but it was fun and engaging, but let's not pretend it's a masterclass in writing. So much shit was cut and so many quests just end. Outer Worlds tried to make every single quest super meaningful and it was tiring as shit. We're overloaded with decisions in our daily lives and it's why it's so tiring to be alive. Every single quest doesn't need to end in one of two npcs dying, and that's why bethesda games are good: Nothing fucking lasts. If an NPC dies, it's another NPC that'll stand in their place and say vague things.

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Did Bethesda games ever actually reward you for being good/bad outside dialogue choice? RDR2 played hugely into this stat despite being somewhat hidden. I'd fucking love to be a John Iron who shows up and people are like "oh hey it's him" or run away in fear. The entire good/evil concept has just boiled down to evil being faster and easier, and good being longer and more difficult for the sake of rest in your soul (and often better gear).

NV had mediocre writing but it was fun and engaging, but let's not pretend it's a masterclass in writing. So much shit was cut and so many quests just end. Outer Worlds tried to make every single quest super meaningful and it was tiring as shit. We're overloaded with decisions in our daily lives and it's why it's so tiring to be alive. Every single quest doesn't need to end in one of two npcs dying, and that's why bethesda games are good: Nothing fucking lasts. If an NPC dies, it's another NPC that'll stand in their place and say vague things.

NV did have your reputation give you various things such as changing npc interactions and some rewards such as the NCR or Legion safehouses and shit. Does that count as a reward for being good/bad?

 

[Big Brown Schlub]

Did Bethesda games ever actually reward you for being good/bad outside dialogue choice?

Oblivion had a Fame/Infamy system but it had minor repercussions, Fame would raise disposition and infamy would lower it. If your infamy was higher than fame you couldn't pray at shrines and if you had infamy at all you couldn't wear the armor from Knights of the Nine, but as you can imagine that DLC also adds a repeatable quest that clears your infamy every time you did it.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

NV did have your reputation give you various things such as changing npc interactions and some rewards such as the NCR or Legion safehouses and shit. Does that count as a reward for being good/bad?

Well, technicaly, if you are in negative rep, certain factions attack you on sight.

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Well, technicaly, if you are in negative rep, certain factions attack you on sight.

That too, and the NCR and Legion will send hit squads after you too.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

That too, and the NCR and Legion will send hit squads after you too.

Oh, right. Either following certain paths in the main quest or just negative rep.

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Oh, right. Either following certain paths in the main quest or just negative rep.

Shit like that is part of why I love NV. It makes your actions have more weight.

Oblivion had a Fame/Infamy system but it had minor repercussions, Fame would raise disposition and infamy would lower it. If your infamy was higher than fame you couldn't pray at shrines and if you had infamy at all you couldn't wear the armor from Knights of the Nine, but as you can imagine that DLC also adds a repeatable quest that clears your infamy every time you did it.

Said quest did involve going on a pilgrimage across the map to the shrines of the nine.

EDIT: Also it was an unmarked quest, you had to find that shit on your own, unless you use a map you are given at the start of the DLC but those only show one of each shrine and they are super spread out.

 

[Bob Barbas]

Did Bethesda games ever actually reward you for being good/bad outside dialogue choice? RDR2 played hugely into this stat despite being somewhat hidden. I'd fucking love to be a John Iron who shows up and people are like "oh hey it's him" or run away in fear.

I do know in Freeside for example if your reputation is low enough the thugs will be too scared to fuck with you.
There's even one who tries to mug you, realizes it's you and then begs for mercy before running away.

 

[Divine right to rule]

I can't say I relate with those NV fans on Reddit who claim to have sunk 1000 hours into the game but "never did a Legion run" . Seeing dialogue and events you were locked out of before has always been part of the fun of a role-playing game, personally. I appreciate that at the very least they aren't petitioning to have evil content removed for not being heckin wholesome.

I am part of that club.
There never was any RP or gameplay reason for me to do so.
They are rude assholes to you from the beginning, about half of the followers are anti-legion, and not a single one pro-legion, and most characters and settlements get fucked over in a legion ending.
The core idea behind them is interesting as a foil to the NCR, but you never actually see them doing anything positive that would justify their brutal way of warfare.

They suffer from content drought, and that really fucks them. They are just too antagonistic to be a viable faction choice for me.

 

[God of Nothing]

i laugh at you all as i hunt ncr and cash in their dogtags for more weapons to hunt ncr with, creating an infinite loop of hunting ncr until there is no longer ncr

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

They suffer from content drought, and that really fucks them. They are just too antagonistic to be a viable faction choice for me.

Which is a shame, like I said fuck knows how long ago it's the idea of the Legion that makes it appealing rather than actually playing it. Even with mods there's no fixing it. You play it if you just want to dick around as a """bad""" guy or you just hate the NCR (even then there's better factions for it) or if you want to try them out and never did before. I don't always play as them because there's so much lost potential that mods can't fully realize, fags don't play them because "they're heckin' racist CHUD larpers!"

 

[Bob Barbas]

Pretty much the problem. We do not see the Legion beyond the frontlines and the atrocities they commit against their "enemies."
If we actually were able to cross the river like in that Arizona mod and actually see what life is like under the Legion's rule they'd actually have some merit beyond just the "Faction I pick purely to piss people off."
We hear about how safe the roads are especially for traders under the Legion but yeah, we never fucking see that shit.

If I were to imagine it, I'd imagine it would probably be rather authoritarian, but peaceful. You stay in line? We all get along, but the people who do dare to step out of line are made an example of which scares others into rethinking doing the same.
At least that'd be my best guess. Peaceful, but only if you follow the rules. Which would make sense given the state of the Wasteland you would have to use some kind of force to make people behave after all.

 

[Big Brown Schlub]

Pretty much the problem. We do not see the Legion beyond the frontlines and the atrocities they commit against their "enemies."
If we actually were able to cross the river like in that Arizona mod and actually see what life is like under the Legion's rule they'd actually have some merit beyond just the "Faction I pick purely to piss people off."
We hear about how safe the roads are especially for traders under the Legion but yeah, we never fucking see that shit.

If I were to imagine it, I'd imagine it would probably be rather authoritarian, but peaceful. You stay in line? We all get along, but the people who do dare to step out of line are made an example of which scares others into rethinking doing the same.
At least that'd be my best guess. Peaceful, but only if you follow the rules. Which would make sense given the state of the Wasteland you would have to use some kind of force to make people behave after all.

I think it was either or Sawyer or Avellone talking about how they originally wanted to challenge the player's pre-conceived notions about both the NCR and the Legion by having them go to a Legion-controlled town in Arizona and showing them just how peaceful it is and how the inhabitants have all their needs met provided they don't cross the Legion. They wanted players to see the juxtaposition of a le heckin' nice NCReddit not being able to even keep fucking ants off the road and the brutal and violent Legion having peace back at home.

 

[Bob Barbas]

I think it was either or Sawyer or Avellone talking about how they originally wanted to challenge the player's pre-conceived notions about both the NCR and the Legion by having them go to a Legion-controlled town in Arizona and showing them just how peaceful it is and how the inhabitants have all their needs met provided they don't cross the Legion. They wanted players to see the juxtaposition of a le heckin' nice NCReddit not being able to even keep fucking ants off the road and the brutal and violent Legion having peace back at home.

So pretty much exactly how I imagined it from what little we're told in the actual game.

 

[Gorilla Milk]

Did Bethesda games ever actually reward you for being good/bad outside dialogue choice?

It isn't Fallout, but Morrowind did. The Great House questlines had several that played into the morality of the houses, not exactly good/bad but very much a "You get rewarded more for acting / thinking like a Telvanni / Redoran / Hlaalu". Fallout 3 punished you for being evil by setting you up to lose the most convenient settlement and getting a shittier one in its place. They also pulled a "Oh you think you did the right thing by convincing the citizens of Tenpenny Tower to take ghoul refugees so that nobody has to die? WELL TOO BAD, THEY MURDER EVERYBODY INCLUDING THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PRO-GHOUL, DON'T YOU FEEL BAD?" - The only 'good' option is to murder the three ghouls and even then you have 3 Dawg yelling about how you are an asshole for the rest of the game.

 

[God of Nothing]

I think it was either or Sawyer or Avellone talking about how they originally wanted to challenge the player's pre-conceived notions about both the NCR and the Legion by having them go to a Legion-controlled town in Arizona and showing them just how peaceful it is and how the inhabitants have all their needs met provided they don't cross the Legion. They wanted players to see the juxtaposition of a le heckin' nice NCReddit not being able to even keep fucking ants off the road and the brutal and violent Legion having peace back at home.

all i need to know is the legion isn't struggling in their own goddamn headquarters like the NCR is with the constant fiend attacks

It isn't Fallout, but Morrowind did. The Great House questlines had several that played into the morality of the houses, not exactly good/bad but very much a "You get rewarded more for acting / thinking like a Telvanni / Redoran / Hlaalu". Fallout 3 punished you for being evil by setting you up to lose the most convenient settlement and getting a shittier one in its place. They also pulled a "Oh you think you did the right thing by convincing the citizens of Tenpenny Tower to take ghoul refugees so that nobody has to die? WELL TOO BAD, THEY MURDER EVERYBODY INCLUDING THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PRO-GHOUL, DON'T YOU FEEL BAD?" - The only 'good' option is to murder the three ghouls and even then you have 3 Dawg yelling about how you are an asshole for the rest of the game.

>he didn't kill the ghouls every time
i felt like them being massive assholes themselves was obvious from the attitude of their jackass leader, who just expects to be let into the only good spot in the wastes
the chief of security even gives you a perfectly good reason to not go with them: the radiation gradually eats away at their brains, so they're ticking time bombs even if they might be good people

Nigger Dog isn't worth getting angry about. You can kill him and his assistant takes over, who just plays radio music from then on. I like to spare him so he can cope and seethe about me choosing to be a wandering one man warband out for myself rather than everyone's errand boy. I nuked Megaton because I could. Everyone in Paradise Falls knows I'm in charge when present. When I annihilated what was left of the Enclave, I artilleried the Brotherhood of Steel so there'd be no one left who could oppose me. Nothing is stopping me from rallying the various raider bands and scattered settlements into my personal kingdom. Knowing the path to The Pitt and already being trusted, I can sabotage and assassinate Ashur. I'll have a means of mass producing equipment and ammunition.

but of course fallout 4 is a thing