Fallout series

[Star Classic]

I have a question for any experienced Fallout 2 players:

I'm replaying FO2 and currently in the Den, doing an evil run and I'm thinking of going with the slavers and trading Sulik in, before I do however I would like to know specifically what this cuts me off from down the road. I ask here because every FO wiki I know of is extremely barebones when it comes to info about the classic games.

from what I know it
- makes me hostile with the NCR (?) I swear I've seen footage of people as slavers getting into the NCR
- cuts me off from a good number of companions, fine as I'm using jinxed anyways and have low charisma
- prevents me from getting into Sierra Army Depot, mostly fine as you become overpowered there but I will miss the extra special stat increase
-cuts me off from quests, though which ones specifically I have no idea.

Anyways I'm less looking for "is it worth it?" and more so "what does it cut me off from specifically?" and I'll judge from there.

 

[Myron]

I'm doing an evil run but I'm too much of a pussy without knowing everything that will happen before hand

Just do it and find out

 

[Star Classic]

Just do it and find out

I prefer to know what I'm getting myself into. If I find I don't like where I end up its a lot harder to restart than FO1 since FO2 is a lot longer.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Let's be real, Fallout hasn't had good writing since Fallout 1.
A lot of people seem to think that Fallout 3 turned the series into "post-apocalypse themepark" but the foundation for that was very much laid in Fallout 2.
Fallout 2 had quite a noticeable shift into things being wacky "fun", and while it was still fairly dark, it didn't even touch on the bleakness of Fallout 1.
Fallout 1 was a genuinely dark story about humanity struggling to get by in a world barely holding on. One of the ways to defeat the final boss is to destroy his hope for the future by pointing out the flaws in his plans.

Fallout 2 could have been that but with a little more hope but then the story gets confused as fuck and instead of the main threat being something properly built up throughout your adventure, the Enclave just sorta kidnaps your entire village, which you learn from a fucking wizard telling you in a psychic dream to get your ass back home. Then there's the talking Deathclaw stupidity too. (god bless Frank for wiping them out). Taking time to become an actual prizefighter, or a porn star, and all the goofy pop-culture references too.
I still like the game, and the additions are fun in their own right, it's just the writing leaves quite a bit to be desired for a serious post-apocalyptic story, and is almost certainly the root cause of the fact that things feel so lighthearted in every game released since.

The Enclave are a cool enemy in premise, but the reality that they just spent near on two entire centuries sitting on an oil rig with their thumbs up their asses is odd to say the least.

Also the Temple of Trials is absolute dogshit and I don't care if they were forced to add it in, they should have included some obtuse way to skip it.

 

[Breadbassket]

Fallout 1 was a genuinely dark story about humanity struggling to get by in a world barely holding on. One of the ways to defeat the final boss is to destroy his hope for the future by pointing out the flaws in his plans.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

The real genius of the peaceful way to beat the Master is that it's not as simple as just "lol speech 100", but you actually need to have a high speech level and you need to have gone out of your way to find this out by getting the evidence. Just dumping 100 points into speech isn't enough to dissuade somebody with true conviction that he's doing the correct thing.
In Fallout 2, Frank himself is immune to being talked down, so instead the "peaceful" approach is just getting an entire squad of Enclave troops to turn traitor because Frank is yucky.
Then in Fallout 3 it's "Go away." and the main villain says "Really? OK!" and also honorable mention to "Kill yourself angry computer "
And then in FNV, it's just "[Speech 100] EAST BIG, EAST BE WEST, EAST BIGGER! KABOOM!"
4 doesn't even have a speech option.

I guess the point I'm making is that unless the writing is very good, the peaceful speech approach to the game will feel unsatisfying.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

Let's be real, Fallout hasn't had good writing since Fallout 1.

Stumbling upon centaurs for the first time in the game, completely unaware of their existence, was something that divided my life into "before" and "after".

[underground_trouble.mp3]

Fallout 1 is one of those experiences that are borderline impossible to replicate. In a way, it was expected that any other game in the franchise won't hit the same. However, I can't say that I'm truly disappointed, I can't really say that other games are bad. I'm a basic bitch so my #1 is New Vegas4life, even though it's something that is completely different from the first game. Yes, other games are not the same, but they had other charm that lured me in, even slops like Fo3 and Fo4. Bethesda seems to be really good at environmental storytelling and small quests while completely failing the main story...


One thing that I actually really liked which was introduced in Fo2/NV is something that currently puts the franchise under the fire, the idea that people revert into tribals and kind of reversing what "ancient" and "modern" cultures mean. Imo this juxtaposition of a more technically advanced society as "ancient" against tribal and basic "modern" people had a good ground for writing and exploration. For this same reason I wish Honest Hearts was a better made DLC than just being held on the backs of Joshua and Randall Clark. While the latter two are top tier storylines in the game, arguably the whole franchise, the whole setting they were made for is completely unfinished minus the pretty scenery and painfully boring. Would have been cooler if they were a part of the main game instead of the DLC, imagine Clark's story integrated into Red Canyon for example.

Anyways, going back to tribals, Boomers were done the best of them all I think. Pseudo Native American tribes both in 2 and NV were a bit in a bad taste, but what amuses me about "racism" accusations is that sjws seem to ignore that these walking caricatutes are for the most part white people going feral (except Res?)

 

[30+GameOvers]

Also I just get the impression Van Buren would have been even sillier than Fallout 2. You should never go to a big killer space station in a Fallout game, that idea alone is retarded.

Tastes are subjective, but how on earth would Van Buren be "silly" in any capacity? I went over the design docs religiously, and I can't recall off the top of my hat anything of the sort. Mind providing some examples for me? That is, assuming your idea of "silly" is the same as it is for most people, as your idea of "woke" is retarded and objectively wrong.

Also, the big finale is anything but "retarded". Maybe if you don't have any context why you're there, in reality the entire second half of the main quest has you trying to get a spaceship in operational condition to stop Presper. Keep in mind that the first half of the main quest had you uncover that you were infected with the New Plague and were unknowingly spreading it all thru out the map, potentially dooming the entire region unless you find the cure via a sidequest. BOMB-001 is fully armed with nuclear warheads, and Presper aims to use it to wipe the slate clean and begin again(much like Elijah, and I don't remember anyone calling him or his plan "wacky and hilarious"), even if nukes won't do the virus you spread will so this is a last ditch effort to stop him, not some sort of silly setpiece ala Frontier, if you knew anything about the design docs you would know this. At the end, even when you defeat Presper it turns out you can't stop the missile launch and you have to instead re-direct the missiles to select points on the gameworld map. In other words, you choose who dies and who lives, if I recall, there is no way to cancel the launch altogether or redirect the missiles to the ocean or something. This means that you will have to decide if a community you might have liked or even invested in(via trade routes sidequest) will be completely nuked off the face of the earth or not, and we know this plan works since if you freeze yourself in Boulder Dome, either you or the Reservation ghouls(if you helped them) wake you up to their new world order, with everyone else but them gone. This premise is similar to the final choice you make in Lonesome Road because it served as direct inspiration for it, so unless you think the entire concept of LR is also premier comedy, I don't see your point. If you want to see a "retarded" space adventure concept, look no further than Mothership Zeta in Fallout 3, which is just one big, long Wild Wasteland encounter. Funny how people who don't understand the Fallout setting don't understand it's tone either.

 

[foreman 89]

The real genius of the peaceful way to beat the Master is that it's not as simple as just "lol speech 100", but you actually need to have a high speech level and you need to have gone out of your way to find this out by getting the evidence. Just dumping 100 points into speech isn't enough to dissuade somebody with true conviction that he's doing the correct thing.
In Fallout 2, Frank himself is immune to being talked down, so instead the "peaceful" approach is just getting an entire squad of Enclave troops to turn traitor because Frank is yucky.
Then in Fallout 3 it's "Go away." and the main villain says "Really? OK!" and also honorable mention to "Kill yourself angry computer "
And then in FNV, it's just "[Speech 100] EAST BIG, EAST BE WEST, EAST BIGGER! KABOOM!"
4 doesn't even have a speech option.

I guess the point I'm making is that unless the writing is very good, the peaceful speech approach to the game will feel unsatisfying.

Reducing New Vegas's final dialogue with Lanius to Bethesda writing is stupid, it was very well written and there are chances to fuck it up for example mentioning retreat causes him to see through your ploy and initiate combat.

 

[foreman 89]

How many nigger theoretical physicists do you think there are?

Yes, it's liberal ideology at work, normalization of negros and race mixing with his mutt daughter.

Do I like Eli? Yes. Do I want Gordon to bleach Alyx? Also yes. Is the game woke? Probably.

There's more than zero, how many White theoretical physicists turned interdimensional super soldier are there?

Black Americans had been in the US since the start, before a lot of European population immigrated. Why is it woke for an American company to represent them?
What indication is there the game pushes a relationship with Alyx? Gordon is a lot older and from a different background to her, their relationship is much more like teacher-student.

Not even Synthetic Man considers HL2 to be woke.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Reducing New Vegas's final dialogue with Lanius to Bethesda writing is stupid, it was very well written and there are chances to fuck it up for example mentioning retreat causes him to see through your ploy and initiate combat.

Yeah, same with Ulysses in Lonesome Road.
Many options to pacify him and help you out against the Marked Men is fun. More with the post-DLC dialogue.

 

[capitalBBustard]

There's more than zero, how many White theoretical physicists turned interdimensional super soldier are there?

Lilbro unironically pulling this card in current year.

Black Americans had been in the US since the start, before a lot of European population immigrated. Why is it woke for an American company to represent them?

Muh niggerino representation, which is a default woke argument using woke terminology based on unironic we wuz here first shit. How is it woke? It's a Chinese riddle.

What indication is there the game pushes a relationship with Alyx?

Nigger, are you thick? She flirts with the mute, four-eyed nerd(you) constantly and even Eli says the two should get to fucking already once the anti-sex spacemagic device is destroyed to help repopulate Earth (also so he can have grandkids). She was a blasian waifu for nerds the same way Gordon was an action hero self-insert for nerds.

 

[30+GameOvers]

Then in Fallout 3 it's "Go away." and the main villain says "Really? OK!" and also honorable mention to "Kill yourself angry computer "
And then in FNV, it's just "[Speech 100] EAST BIG, EAST BE WEST, EAST BIGGER! KABOOM!"
4 doesn't even have a speech option.

Reducing New Vegas's final dialogue with Lanius to Bethesda writing is stupid, it was very well written and there are chances to fuck it up for example mentioning retreat causes him to see through your ploy and initiate combat.

What's with dumb takes in this thread all of a sudden? First time I hear of Lanius being compared to "Bethesda writing" or "Bethesda villain". Are you retards just making things up to bitch about?
Let me spell it out for you: Legate isn't The Master. He's just a mook, you talk him down using terms and words he understands. Not everything has to be this grand finale, you have 100 in certain skill and you succeed, simple as that. It's an RPG, that's how it works, Hoover Dam battle was already so rushed that we should be glad that there is non-violent ways to deal with the baddies as is. Note how when you try to talk down Oliver in House/Independent path the dialogue also revolves around something you would realistically say to a general of an army, not a self proclaimed "savior" of mutant kind, which requires a whole different approach.

I will even go out to bat for Eden in Fallout 3, since he is a computer and you defeat him using facts and logic, the only language he knows. The writing in that sequence is dogshit and locking the password to kill him behind a 50 lockpick chest is just lazy(they forgot to put a unique 10mm pistol there too btw, making it unobtainable without exploits). Still, at least I see what they were going with there, shitty writing is a game wide problem in Fallout 3 but at least you can see what they were going with there occasionally.

BTW, there is technically a speech option to "talk down" the end boss in Fallout 4. If you assault the Institute and talk to Shaun on his deathbed, you can convince him to give you the password to his terminal, which will disable a few enemies and make the rest of the end game dungeon easier. Does it matter at the end of the day? Fuck no, and there is no way to talk down Brotherhood or Railroad either, but at least it's *something*.

 

[foreman 89]

View attachment 7418241
Lilbro unironically pulling this card in current year.

Muh niggerino representation, which is a default woke argument using woke terminology based on unironic we wuz here first shit. How is it woke? It's a Chinese riddle.

Nigger, are you thick? She flirts with the mute, four-eyed nerd(you) constantly and even Eli says the two should get to fucking already once the anti-sex spacemagic device is destroyed to help repopulate Earth (also so he can have grandkids). She was a blasian waifu for nerds the same way Gordon was an action hero self-insert for nerds.

1. The first argument doesn't work in the context of Half Life. A modern car doesn't make sense/is out of place in a fantasy setting however an African American scientist in 1990s/2000s America isn't really, sure it's rare but it's not comparable to how out of place the car is.

2. I don't believe companies should be forced to represent anyone however I'm just saying an American company representing African Americans isn't abnormal. They are the companies primary historic minority and the majority of them are descended from the slaves brought in before the 1800s which is when Europe began mass immigrating to the country. Yes Whites were the first settlers, I'm not denying that, I'm just arguing an American company creating a piece of media with African Americans inherently isn't woke, if the piece of media has an anti White message sure or replaces historic Whites with Africans like Hamilton yes or if it's done as a reaction to leftist pressure tactics yes but inherently having them I disagree that that's woke.

3. I haven't played the game in a while so I can't really remember the dialogue. Is it mainly from the episodes?

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Why you guys are still talking about wokeism in HL2? Did you at least played the game to know context?

If the world is in basically apocalyptic-state with a big ass alien empire draining resources and using emp to prevent births, is a little obnoxious why the diverse of characters: because they are few.
I remember more white characters in the main cast: Gordon, Barney, Doc, that redhead bitch and Breen. Only specific ones are Eli (because is from a fucking sciencist model in OG HL) and Alyx (which is new).

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Reducing New Vegas's final dialogue with Lanius to Bethesda writing is stupid, it was very well written and there are chances to fuck it up for example mentioning retreat causes him to see through your ploy and initiate combat.

I mean, it's not quite at Bethesda levels, but it is stupid.
The ONLY opportunity to fuck it up is by going "SO... YOU'LL RETREAT?", which just sounds stupid.
Everything else you can say is helpfully labeled by a speech check. The fact that stat checks in dialogue are almost always labeled as a "[STAT 100] pick me for the good result!" (that one time with that prick Domino notwithstanding) makes the final encounter with Lanius almost comical.
All it would have taken would've been for them to have removed the part of dialogue mentioning your stat and it would make it far better.
As it is, it's mocked because the game tells you what to do to win.

I will even go out to bat for Eden in Fallout 3, since he is a computer and you defeat him using facts and logic

"[Science]You can't be president. You're an abortion of science. You need to die..."
"Oh, OK."
or
"[Speech]This has to end, Eden. You need to destroy yourself and the base."
"Oh, OK"

Those are what your character actually tells Eden. Both work.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

I mean, it's not quite at Bethesda levels, but it is stupid.
The ONLY opportunity to fuck it up is by going "SO... YOU'LL RETREAT?", which just sounds stupid.
Everything else you can say is helpfully labeled by a speech check. The fact that stat checks in dialogue are almost always labeled as a "[STAT 100] pick me for the good result!" (that one time with that prick Domino notwithstanding) makes the final encounter with Lanius almost comical.
All it would have taken would've been for them to have removed the part of dialogue mentioning your stat and it would make it far better.
As it is, it's mocked because the game tells you what to do to win.


"[Science]You can't be president. You're an abortion of science. You need to die..."
"Oh, OK."
or
"[Speech]This has to end, Eden. You need to destroy yourself and the base."
"Oh, OK"

Those are what your character actually tells Eden. Both work.

I prefer the option: "You kno what? I got the self-destruction code".
Speech in FO3 are for pussies.

 

[R00T]

Do people really not remember how stupid this is? *This* is good writing but Fallout 3 Eden's writing is bad? Fallout 4's synths are bad?

Good writing can be viewed both ways. The first way is from the view of us: the protagonist. The other way, and the way that shows this is terrible writing is from the perspective of the antagonist. Take 2 seconds to look at it from Legate Lanius's viewpoint:

A random soldier for the enemy marches up, alone or with a pet dog and a lady yelling about whiskey and all of a sudden tells you it's over. This literal who begins epousing about the east, and how difficult that must have been for you. This is something the courier has never seen, and I can't think of any instances in the game where someone discusses that with you. This character then tells you that you risk losing the east trying to hold onto your new gains. Again this is something that NEVER comes up in the game. You don't see it, you don't hear others talking about it, the one character that I can think of that discusses legion land is the caravaner in Fortification Hill. He mentions how there's practically no bandits and it's fine living if you obey the legion's laws. Bearing all this in mind the random then tells you you better get going before you lose the east. You, the greatest warrior and conquerer of 87 tribes, immediately pack up and run away. It's bad writing.

Compare it to the Master: You don't make anything up. You have to actually convince him. You have to give him evidence. Evidence you can miss. Make the courier actually talk to people from Legion territory, figure out the bigger picture, present it with evidence, maybe reports of bandits focusing their attacks in the east, reports from legionaires about concerns regarding logistics.

I don't get why spergs have to defend every iota of New Vegas. If you really like something you have to be able to point out the flaws. This line:

Not everything has to be this grand finale, you have 100 in certain skill and you succeed, simple as that. It's an RPG, that's how it works

Is pathetic when this same person is bitching that Fallout 4 doesn't have choices or this or that. It's a settlement building game. You run around and collect junk and then build a house, simple as that. And yes the end of the game (especially if you don't allow play afterwards) should feel like an end of a game. Simping for bad game writing is a crazy thing.

The hilarious thing is that Fallout 4 got the settlement treatment because one of the more popular mods in Fallout: New Vegas in terms of new mechanics in gameplay was Wasteland Defense, where you build a settlement and then defend it from attacking raiders. You can look up videos of it and see comments of people saying "settlement building should just be in the game." Include people loving hearthfire in Skyrim and you have suits at bethesda saying "this is what the people want."

If you really enjoy something you should be critical of it. It's how you get better games instead of terrible attempts at the same game over and over.

 

[Conan]

I miss when the internet got together for a while and rightfully ridiculed the BEAR BULL BEAR BULL OLD WORLD FLAG BEAR BULL from lonesome road.

 

[Myron]

I miss when the internet got together for a while and rightfully ridiculed the BEAR BULL BEAR BULL OLD WORLD FLAG BEAR BULL from lonesome road.