Fallout series

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I'm personally weary of his lore additions, especially because he's very left-aligned given the context of terminology he uses in his writing. Here's a remark on the NCR's discrimination policy:
I feel like a strategy guide, especially one written by someone not directly involved in development, should be considered as the same level of canonicity as the Fallout Bible; You pick and choose what you consider canon and discard whatever you don't.
 
Fallout: New Vegas Official Game Guide Collector's Edition pp. 460-461:
By this standard, he'd have to kill near enough everybody West of the river is seems. It also doesn't mesh all that well with Caesar's actions in the ending, where he lets the FotA in Old Mormon go. I guess the writer mixed up Lanius' reasons for killing them with the Legion as a whole or something?
That's in direct contradiction of the actual ending for the Followers if Caesar lives
After the Legion's victory, Caesar, out of a strange respect for his old fellows, allowed the Followers safe passage out of the wasteland. Reluctantly, the Followers accepted the offer and abandoned Old Mormon Fort to the Legion.
 
That's in direct contradiction of the actual ending for the Followers if Caesar lives
I feel like a strategy guide, especially one written by someone not directly involved in development, should be considered as the same level of canonicity as the Fallout Bible; You pick and choose what you consider canon and discard whatever you don't.
I agree. I just dislike that these strategy guide additions are weaved into the wiki and so will be regarded as gospel by some. I'm a purist in the sense that game stuff is of inarguable canonicity and can't be contradicted, even if the writer/creator says so e.g. "House's Platinum chip is gold," can't ever be true regardless of how hard they insist upon it because the game says/shows otherwise.

In-game content > writer/creator of said content > someone involved in the game's development > official 3rd party materials.

The sources of information aren't on the same footing, but can be accepted so long as they don't contradict what's revealed or said in-game. It's kind of odd on a meta level, but you can even ignore anything said by Chris Avellone or Sawyer if you want. But as a rule, nothing outside of the game should overwrite anything in the games themselves. Genuinely, I can't think of a single series or franchise that was made better by doing so. It pretty much destroyed the Halo franchise beyond what money and sheer quantity can repair. So long as the Fallout TV show doesn't impact 5 significantly, then Fallout can avoid what happened to Halo. So long as the show's events aren't a necessity to understand the plot of the game nor decided the plot itself, then it can avoid what happened to Halo.

No, I don't count the Ghoul being included in 76 as significant. And I'm an expert at cope so I'll wait until something is shown of 5 in 2032 before making that judgement. If it's set on the West Coast I'll take that as an early warning. Ashur in Fallout 3 mentions the Pitt's might being the "envy of Ronto" so maybe Bethesda might set the game in Canada if they want to try and do something different. It also means they don't have to mention anything done by the show. Sure, they can regard it as "canon" but given 3's canonicity mattered little to the plot of Fallout New Vegas outside of a reference, we might be fine.
 
No, I don't count the Ghoul being included in 76 as significant
In it's current form I think 76 is as canon to Fallout as GTA online is to the GTA series, in that it's not canon at all after a certain year of development.
In-game content > writer/creator of said content > someone involved in the game's development > official 3rd party materials.
I'm going to use this as a excuse to finally talk about my personal retarded tiers of canon in regards to fallout.
Canon statusDefinitionExample(s)
Non-CanonAnything officially considered non-canon or anything routinely ignored by the devs.Fallout Brotherhood of Steel.
Dev Head-CanonSnippets of lore that come from tweets, interviews, or other sources that haven't been confirmed In games.Tweets from Producers and Writers, former or otherwise. Strategy guides.
Grey CanonLore that comes from unproduced media or media made by Dev's but never put directly in a game or piece of official media. Basically the same as Dev Head-Canon, but actually written down and not said off the cuff. Fallout Van Buren, Fallout Bible.
Spinoff MediaLore coming from Spinoff Media, lowest form of official canon, can be retconned by mainline games without any major impact on the series at large.Fallout 76, Fallout TV show, Fallout Wasteland Warfare.
Interplay GamesLore from the Interplay time period. Major events are canon to the Bethesda Era games, but items, designs, and exact events are not necessarily canon to Fallout 3 onwards unless specifically stated to have happened.Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout Tactics.
NoteI consider Interplay Fallout it's own timeline that exists in a vacuum from everything made under Bethesda, unless you want to consider Fallout New Vegas the 3rd Interplay Fallout. There is no retroactive canon from Bethesda to Interplay. Fallout 3 can not retcon Fallout 1.
Bethesda GamesIncluding Obsidian's Fallout game. Each game overwrites the previous, so should Fallout 4 retcon Fallout 3, the Fallout 4 lore is considered the true lore, should Fallout 5 overwrite 4, then 5 lore is true lore.Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 4.
 
I just dislike that these strategy guide additions are weaved into the wiki and so will be regarded as gospel by some.
I brought this up in this thread and the Fallout Amazon series thread on this site. That the show's canon has been edited into all of the public Fallout wikis. And if you try to remove Fallout show material from Fallout 1, 2, or NV articles you will get your account banned from being able to make edits. Practically every Fallout wiki is now polluted with sources like the show, 76, and other Bethesda material.
 
Ashur in Fallout 3 mentions the Pitt's might being the "envy of Ronto" so maybe Bethesda might set the game in Canada if they want to try and do something different.
Bethesda said they don't intend on going outside of America as they feel its part of fallouts identity plus usually give more meat to these hints of future locations like the terminal in 3 describing vaults 76 and 111.
Each game overwrites the previous, so should Fallout 4 retcon Fallout 3,
What did fallout 4 retcon from 3?
Anytime the capital wasteland is mentioned its always either the battle for project purity or after the game.
I brought this up in this thread and the Fallout Amazon series thread on this site. That the show's canon has been edited into all of the public Fallout wikis.
They should just make show lore be a toggle
 
What did fallout 4 retcon from 3?
Does the Brotherhood of Steel itself count? They go from being so goody-two shoes in Fallout 3 that there's an entire splinter faction that behaves infinitely more like the original Brotherhood (The Brotherhood Outcasts), to having a complete change in outlook within just ten years, only because we need them to be more gray for our "I seriously can't fucking believe it's not New Vegas!" faction play.
 
Does the Brotherhood of Steel itself count? They go from being so goody-two shoes in Fallout 3 that there's an entire splinter faction that behaves infinitely more like the original Brotherhood (The Brotherhood Outcasts), to having a complete change in outlook within just ten years, only because we need them to be more gray for our "I seriously can't fucking believe it's not New Vegas!" faction play.
This is explained in game as the result of Elder Lyons dying and Maxson taking over. Maxson moves the DC Brotherhood closer in belief back towards the West Coast Brotherhood, which results in the Outcasts rejoining the Brotherhood as their main reason for leaving was undone.
 
Including Obsidian's Fallout game. Each game overwrites the previous, so should Fallout 4 retcon Fallout 3, the Fallout 4 lore is considered the true lore, should Fallout 5 overwrite 4, then 5 lore is true lore.
Alhamdulillah. This is how Muslims handle contradiction in the Qu'ran.
Appreciate the table. Were I to have tried something like this you would've got some ugly ass paragraphs instead.
Bethesda said they don't intend on going outside of America as they feel its part of fallouts identity plus usually give more meat to these hints of future locations like the terminal in 3 describing vaults 76 and 111.
But Canada has been annexed by America in the Fallout universe so they wouldn't be "going outside of America," would they? :)
 
This is explained in game as the result of Elder Lyons dying and Maxson taking over. Maxson moves the DC Brotherhood closer in belief back towards the West Coast Brotherhood, which results in the Outcasts rejoining the Brotherhood as their main reason for leaving was undone.
I'm aware of the justification the game presents, it's just that it comes a bit out of left field with Maxson being shown as a kind of naïve kid in 3 (Expected, since he's like 10-12), and growing up during a period where the two major threats (Enclave and Super Mutants) were already taken care of; so it's a bit hard to bridge that gap. But then again, this is a game written by Emil fucking Pagliarulo, so I fully acknowledge I'm being a bit nitpicky.
 
I brought this up in this thread and the Fallout Amazon series thread on this site. That the show's canon has been edited into all of the public Fallout wikis. And if you try to remove Fallout show material from Fallout 1, 2, or NV articles you will get your account banned from being able to make edits. Practically every Fallout wiki is now polluted with sources like the show, 76, and other Bethesda material.
It's pretty obvious that Bethesda considers the show and 76 to be canon (and the show to effectively be Fallout 5), so of course a wiki dedicated to documenting Fallout lore is going to include it. It's like The Clone Wars stuff being on Legends pages. Is it infinitely worse than the Clone Wars Multimedia Project? Yes. (although the CWMMP solos every other part of Star Wars) But it's still part of Legends continuity and belongs on the Legends pages.
 
I'm aware of the justification the game presents, it's just that it comes a bit out of left field with Maxson being shown as a kind of naïve kid in 3 (Expected, since he's like 10-12), and growing up during a period where the two major threats (Enclave and Super Mutants) were already taken care of; so it's a bit hard to bridge that gap. But then again, this is a game written by Emil fucking Pagliarulo, so I fully acknowledge I'm being a bit nitpicky.
I've already bloviated a ton on the Institute and how Fallout 4's plot suffers as a result of trying to force the slavery metaphor. The BoS are possibly a victim of this too. One theory I have (though maybe I picked it up somewhere else) is that 4's plot might've ended up being shockingly similar to 3 at conception, but realised this late into production and so had to course correct shoddily without having to restart the entire thing.

Considering how tiny a part the Railroad play in the story, I theorise they and the Synth focus were given extreme prominence last minute in order to differentiate 4 from 3. Given how similar writers end up being to prior works, I think Emil somehow ended up sleepwalking into creating a more or less identical story to 3, and I'm talking:
1) Family member missing from Vault
2) Rediscovery of family member later on, saved from the enemy
3) Have to seek the aid of X=group in order to combat said enemy
4) The enemy's goals will result in complete subjugation/genocide

But the most egregious part of this is hasn't been said yet. You see, Shaun's kidnapping makes zero sense in the story and ultimately amounts to nothing. Also factor in Kellogg. The Institute have synths and Coursers more than capable of doing the things Kellogg can do. There's no meaningful reason stated as to why Kellogg is given the task, and even his time with Shaun as a child is fake because the Shaun we see him with is the synth version. The Institute also do not shun hiring capable outsiders, it just pertains to scientists mostly because they already have a capable fighting force on hand.

It's entirely possible at some point, 4's plot involved the Enclave. Maybe the Institute were a front for the Enclave, or a puppet, something that hid from the public at large the true authority in the Commonwealth. It wasn't like the Institute was some secret in Fallout 3, anybody who can be asked about it knows more or less what it is, so people being sceptical it even exists in 4 makes zero sense considering.

The BoS would've been more or less identical to how they were in 3 with the Minutemen giving you a middle of the road option potentially. Brotherhood wanting to bomb the shit out of the Institute versus preserving some of it for the long-term prosperity of the Commonwealth. This'd make the conflict between the Minutemen and BoS more akin to Independence vs NCR in New Vegas, with the Institute/Enclave acting similar to the Legion or House. Making them some front for the Enclave also resolves their desire for genetic purity in Shaun, which is otherwise non-existent in-game itself. It also makes the hiring of Kellogg make more sense due to the Enclave's probable diminishing manpower pool.

Shaun would be a pure genetic outsider raised wholly on Enclave ideals to become their president for life. Kellogg would be a more contentious element as he did actually raise Shaun from baby to adolescent or something which gave him just enough of an outside perspective to make Shaun either redeemable/open to reform or give reason for why he allows you into the Institute/Enclave to begin with. Kellogg not being a thing post-1st half is too big a fumble to attribute to shitty writing. He was a character more integral to a different story entirely, one we didn't get.

Valentine momentarily becoming Kellogg also makes sense in a scenario where the Enclave had a computer president once. We're given the hint in that moment people can be uploaded into synth bodies, but it goes fucking nowhere lmao. Imagine if Nick Valentine was the memory-wiped copy of some Enclave computer-president rather than a police detective with an incomplete case with a retarded as fuck conclusion. Kellogg residing in Diamond City could've been a 2-birds-1-stone scenario of keeping an eye on him whilst raising the heir apparent to the Enclave.

Kellogg's relationship with the Enclave can begin earlier as opposed to the year(s?) long trek to the East coast from the West, since he might go North to avoid the chaos/dangers East of the Colorado river (Caesar's Legion having a low view of NCR citizens or a broken apart Legion of warlord states making him wary, you choose) and end up in Chicago. The relationship and thus trust between the Enclave and him can begin to grow earlier and so tasking him with the capture and raising of Shaun is also made more credible.

The Railroad always felt tacked on compared to the the BoS and the Minutemen. The latter both have grand set pieces, right? The BoS have the Prydwyn and Liberty Prime, the Minutemen get the Fort and artillery. The Railroad get some dingy basement and their mission to blow up the Prydwyn involves just planting charges on the Prydwyn itself versus the grander spectacles afforded by the Minutemen and Institute. The BoS had to be made "meaner" in order to create a contrast between the Railroad and themselves when it comes to synths. The rest is history.


TLDR: I have a theory that the first half of 4's main story (Kellogg, Shaun kidnapping, etc) feel so different from the 2nd half (Synths!!! All the way down! Slaves! Gorillas!) because the story being told by the 1st half never actually got a conclusion, and the 2nd half is of a totally different plot in order to differentiate it more from Fallout 3.
 
There's no meaningful reason stated as to why Kellogg is given the task, and even his time with Shaun as a child is fake because the Shaun we see him with is the synth version.
The only reason I could suppose is that it's because Kellogg is still a human with a human brain, except, there's practically no difference between synths and humans aside from the fact that one still has to obey your every whim. In other words, Emil is an idiot.
 
But the most egregious part of this is hasn't been said yet. You see, Shaun's kidnapping makes zero sense in the story and ultimately amounts to nothing. Also factor in Kellogg. The Institute have synths and Coursers more than capable of doing the things Kellogg can do. There's no meaningful reason stated as to why Kellogg is given the task, and even his time with Shaun as a child is fake because the Shaun we see him with is the synth version. The Institute also do not shun hiring capable outsiders, it just pertains to scientists mostly because they already have a capable fighting force on hand.
If I'm remembering, Kellogg was in DC as bait for the Sole Survivor, and was meant to end two loose ends (Kellogg having outlived his usefulness mostly due to the Coursers and Father's "personal" vendetta against him for his family)
 
You do realize you are upset that Fallout lore is being added to a Fallout wiki, right? You can dislike the show, 76, and everything made after the IP was sold off the Bethesda, but that is still official Fallout media.
No one is upset here but you. The problem is that the lore is often contradictory. Bethesda's Fallouts conflict with the worlds of 1, 2, and New Vegas. It makes the wikis out to be schizophrenic where information is contrasting or divergent and it's at the whim of the wiki owners what becomes canon and what is not. By the end of the decade we'll probably have several explanations for the origins of deathclaws, who dropped the bombs initially, where the Enclave came from, and many other lore issues. The lore is a mess.
 
If I'm remembering, Kellogg was in DC as bait for the Sole Survivor, and was meant to end two loose ends (Kellogg having outlived his usefulness mostly due to the Coursers and Father's "personal" vendetta against him for his family)
You're remembering quite right. Shaun deliberately set him up to die at the Sole Survivor's hand, and he tells the Sole Survivor as much.
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