Fallout series

[GethN7]

To be honest I think you're giving the writers more credit than they deserve.

Possibly, but Shaun does give you a valuable clue if you side with the Institute.

He was raised with them since birth and inherited all their values, but he privately confesses that is frustrates him that even he doesn't really see where his associates are really going with their work and wants you to succeed him to give them an actual direction.

The writers seem to have realized to some extent they wrote a bunch of mad scientists with a contradictory end goal, and while they tried to resolve it and give the player a chance to help do so, they still come off as spinning their wheels for no clearly defined end.

 

[Medicated]

That kind of bothered me too. Why make the super-sentient Gen 3 synths just to have 90% of the ones you see in the Institute sweeping floors and other menial labor.

Possibly, but Shaun does give you a valuable clue if you side with the Institute.

He was raised with them since birth and inherited all their values, but he privately confesses that is frustrates him that even he doesn't really see where his associates are really going with their work and wants you to succeed him to give them an actual direction.

The writers seem to have realized to some extent they wrote a bunch of mad scientists with a contradictory end goal, and while they tried to resolve it and give the player a chance to help do so, they still come off as spinning their wheels for no clearly defined end.

Well it's just that it's hard to make any case to side with the Institute, since you don't really know what their goals actually are. Shaun says "We really are the best hope for humanity" but it's never elaborated on as to why. If you side with the Minutemen, as their leader, you still get Preston telling you "We are going to rebuild the Minutemen, and make it last this time" we have a goal established. With the Institute there isn't even some hint as to what the long term plan is.

That's why I keep coming back to the fan theories that the Institute storyline has somehow been redacted. You having a child synth and a spouse synth, the references of mind transference with Nick Valentine and Curie, scientists commenting on Synths being the future of humanity and how child Shaun doesn't have real Shauns memories. It all seems to point at some reveal where Father explains that you are supposed to be the next step in human evolution, a human copy with a synth body and their plan is to replace all humans eventually with Synth doubles. DiMA actually references this in his speech when he replaces Captain Avery with a synth "We needed an example of what a human should be".

Again in Goodneighbor when you come across the random gunned down Synth, the guards say "He gives up cigarettes, the booze, stops cheating on his wife. I mean he wasn't a saint, but he was who he was, the Institute ain't got no right replacing him with a Synth double." Again at Warwick homestead, his wife comments that her husband has been strangely nice and kind lately.

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN]

The dumbest thing the Institute had me do was asked me, the director, to rescue a gen 1 because the coursers were too busy. That's like asking the Chief of police to go out and write jaywalking tickets because the meter maids are too busy.

And speaking of dumb things, is there any reason, from a storytelling standpoint, why Kellogg had to be from the NCR? You know they just threw that in so they could be like "Hey, remember the NCR? That's from those games you liked!" And how did he bring a +60 year supply of cigars with him?

 

[GethN7]

The dumbest thing the Institute had me do was asked me, the director, to rescue a gen 1 because the coursers were too busy. That's like asking the Chief of police to go out and write jaywalking tickets because the meter maids are too busy.

And speaking of dumb things, is there any reason, from a storytelling standpoint, why Kellogg had to be from the NCR? You know they just threw that in so they could be like "Hey, remember the NCR? That's from those games you liked!" And how did he bring a +60 year supply of cigars with him?

Well, the first is Bethseda guild faction logic rearing it's ugly head. It would be boring to just straw boss, so they dump shit like that on you to do, by their logic.

As for Kellogg being from the NCR, that was certainly a sop to New Vegas and classic Fallout fans, no question. As for the cigars, it is mentioned traders who have traveled all the way from there have visited the Commonwealth, and since the Institute is revealed to have plants in most of the trader organizations, it's not unreasonable to assume they pulled some strings and arranged for him to get some reminders of home as part of his paycheck.

 

[X-Shaped Weeaboo]

Gotta be honest, as a more casual Fallout fan that doesn't particularly care too much for the lore, the whole "Post-apocalypse and androids" shtick of Fallout 4 is a major turn-off for me.

I loved the series' entries beforehand because technology seemed somewhat primitive and archaic, even if it is higher tech than what we have. There was less of an emphasis on it and more about the people and survival. New Vegas kind of pushed this button for me a bit with Helios and Old World Blues, but I didn't have to care about those points in the story and just generally avoid them entirely. Fallout 4 pushes it's high tech robots and their potential for free will pretty front and center and it just breaks all of my immersion. I just don't care and I kind of hate how this technology seems prevalent in a world where it really shouldn't be. (By that token, I also really didn't like Liberty Prime.)

Just my two cents.

 

[Zaryiu]

Gotta be honest, as a more casual Fallout fan that doesn't particularly care too much for the lore, the whole "Post-apocalypse and androids" shtick of Fallout 4 is a major turn-off for me.

I loved the series' entries beforehand because technology seemed somewhat primitive and archaic, even if it is higher tech than what we have. There was less of an emphasis on it and more about the people and survival. New Vegas kind of pushed this button for me a bit with Helios and Old World Blues, but I didn't have to care about those points in the story and just generally avoid them entirely. Fallout 4 pushes it's high tech robots and their potential for free will pretty front and center and it just breaks all of my immersion. I just don't care and I kind of hate how this technology seems prevalent in a world where it really shouldn't be. (By that token, I also really didn't like Liberty Prime.)

Just my two cents.

Technically the Fallout series is post post-apocalyptic, the period where reconstruction is happening and relics from the pre-apocalypse is found. I'm not bothered by Helios because electricity needs to come from somewhere

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN]

And Helios is actually based on a real life solar array, Nevada Solar One.

And the guns in F4 are one of the things that break my immersion. NV's guns were based on actual guns, while F4's guns had this weird, cartoony dieselpunk vibe to them. The pipe weapons would never function in real life, the combat rifle would never be used by soldiers in combat, and the assault rifle has this big ass water jacket over the barrel and nobody would ever be able to pick the damn thing up. I do like the 10mm pistol though, it kinda reminds me of the Savage 1907 .

And F4 got rid of one of the best enemies, the centaur. You have this writhing, grotesque monster which really shows the unethical depravity of pre-war scientists, and replaced it with the dumb mutant hound. It looks like they took the bulldog from the Tom and Jerry cartoons and painted it green! And we're supposed to take the super mutants as a serious threat?

I guess that's the big glaring difference between F4 and NV. New Vegas created an actual world with people with their own, thoughts, beliefs, and motivations. Fallout 4 is just a Saturday morning cartoon but for grown ups.

 

[vertexwindi]

God the pipe guns both look like shit and feel like shit to use and there is thousands of them in the beginning in the game. I actively avoided them and kept running short on ammo.

 

[GethN7]

God the pipe guns both look like shit and feel like shit to use and there is thousands of them in the beginning in the game. I actively avoided them and kept running short on ammo.

Well, I agree, but two things in their defense.

1. In the pre-War period, as the US was degenerating into a military junta and ordinary people found it harder to get their hands on regular weapons for their own defense, pipe guns were in vogue because crap as they were, they were a GUN. Post-War, they are still plentiful and easy to make and modify, and they are still useful to some extent compared to having nothing at all.

2. They do have canon precedent to the classic games, specifically Fallout 2, which introduced the concept:

https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Pipe_weapons

 

[Zaryiu]

I'm looking for a build to make playing for the first time easier (well not too easy) as i'm thinking of making a character good both in combat and in solving problems non-violently too

 

[millais]

Speaking of the jarring aesthetic of gear in F4 and the poorly thought out nature of everything related to Institute, all the Institute weapons and armor had a very off-putting aesthetic look. All the guns had very un-ergonomic grips and stocks, and the armor parts had a similar thing going on where it looked like it would be awkward and painful to wear. And to top it all off, all their stuff was pretty ugly. The weapons looked like some kind of Fisher-Price nerf guns, and the armor looked like someone tried to go for a sterile Apple aesthetic but forgot to keep the silhouette lines clean and simple.

 

[GethN7]

Speaking of the jarring aesthetic of gear in F4 and the poorly thought out nature of everything related to Institute, all the Institute weapons and armor had a very off-putting aesthetic look. All the guns had very un-ergonomic grips and stocks, and the armor parts had a similar thing going on where it looked like it would be awkward and painful to wear. And to top it all off, all their stuff was pretty ugly. The weapons looked like some kind of Fisher-Price nerf guns, and the armor looked like someone tried to go for a sterile Apple aesthetic but forgot to keep the silhouette lines clean and simple.

Funny thing is, even the Institute themselves admit their guns suck, and they were mostly intended as weapons for their synths to use anyway.

 

[Red Hood]

Well, I agree, but two things in their defense.

1. In the pre-War period, as the US was degenerating into a military junta and ordinary people found it harder to get their hands on regular weapons for their own defense, pipe guns were in vogue because crap as they were, they were a GUN. Post-War, they are still plentiful and easy to make and modify, and they are still useful to some extent compared to having nothing at all.

2. They do have canon precedent to the classic games, specifically Fallout 2, which introduced the concept:

https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Pipe_weapons

Having them in-universe doesn't bother me, although so long after the nukes fell and other stuff is available is like "well..let's set the dial back again". They've been very inconsistently shown in game.

The pipe rifle you get early in Fallout 2, though mostly useless every time I've played, seem to at least have a sound general design that looks like it could be cobbled together with very basic tools.

Oddly enough weird homemade improvised weapons exist (such as the following pictured below, from Chechnya) and others, like the STEN, were engineered to be produced by clandestine operators with access to a basic machine shop.

 

[Medicated]

Gotta be honest, as a more casual Fallout fan that doesn't particularly care too much for the lore, the whole "Post-apocalypse and androids" shtick of Fallout 4 is a major turn-off for me.

I was wondering if they got some inspiration from this old movie.

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

The dumbest thing the Institute had me do was asked me, the director, to rescue a gen 1 because the coursers were too busy. That's like asking the Chief of police to go out and write jaywalking tickets because the meter maids are too busy.

"I just got a word of another settlement that--"
"Shut the fuck up Preston. Do it yourself."

 

[vertexwindi]

Speaking of the jarring aesthetic of gear in F4 and the poorly thought out nature of everything related to Institute, all the Institute weapons and armor had a very off-putting aesthetic look. All the guns had very un-ergonomic grips and stocks, and the armor parts had a similar thing going on where it looked like it would be awkward and painful to wear. And to top it all off, all their stuff was pretty ugly. The weapons looked like some kind of Fisher-Price nerf guns, and the armor looked like someone tried to go for a sterile Apple aesthetic but forgot to keep the silhouette lines clean and simple.

The armour looks like you're wearing toilet seats, it's so bad.

The saddest shit is the concept art shows off some really bitching organic Institute weapons.

 

[Slap47]

You give Bethesda too much credit. They design without thinking.

Well, I agree, but two things in their defense.

1. In the pre-War period, as the US was degenerating into a military junta and ordinary people found it harder to get their hands on regular weapons for their own defense, pipe guns were in vogue because crap as they were, they were a GUN. Post-War, they are still plentiful and easy to make and modify, and they are still useful to some extent compared to having nothing at all.

Where did you get that factoid? Pretty sure the issue was less with America being an authoritarian dictatorship and more with everybody agreeing that the ends justified the means.

The original point of the Enclave was that it was a parody of 1990s neoconservatism and the cold war mentality to the extreme. Wars for oils, killing innocents in the name of capitalism, etc.

The 2nd amendment was very likely still a strong force. States rights was still a thing and the constitution was still considered an important document.

Technically the Fallout series is post post-apocalyptic, the period where reconstruction is happening and relics from the pre-apocalypse is found. I'm not bothered by Helios because electricity needs to come from somewhere

They had resource wars so it makes sense that they'd develop better alternative energy.

 

[GethN7]

You give Bethesda too much credit. They design without thinking.



Where did you get that factoid? Pretty sure the issue was less with America being an authoritarian dictatorship and more with everybody agreeing that the ends justified the means.

The original point of the Enclave was that it was a parody of 1990s neoconservatism and the cold war mentality to the extreme. Wars for oils, killing innocents in the name of capitalism, etc.

The 2nd amendment was very likely still a strong force. States rights was still a thing and the constitution was still considered an important document.

From the lore.

As the US inched closer to the Great War,martial law was declared against anyone deemed even remotely disloyal and the BADTFL was deputized to confiscate weapons and combat armor not allowed to have them (basically anyone who wasn't tonguing the government's balls)

Pipe guns were a means of getting around this since the official ones had to be licensed and registered.

And lol, no on the second one. While they gave the impression they still gave a damn, by the time the Great War happened, the country was effectively subordinated to banana republic level authority, and, at will, anyone could be imprisoned or detained without trial, according to Executive Order 99066.

It had gotten to the point where the government had become so strict that guys who got back from the Anchorage Campaign were redeployed to enforce martial law on their own countrymen.

They even had riots where protestors were shot like dogs (you can find the evidence at a Boston checkpoint in Fallout 4).

 

[Slap47]

https://techraptor.net/content/fallout-2-20th-anniversary

Pretty good article. Fallout 2 was rushed out by slackers, makes sense.

From the lore.

As the US inched closer to the Great War,martial law was declared against anyone deemed even remotely disloyal and the BADTFL was deputized to confiscate weapons and combat armor not allowed to have them (basically anyone who wasn't tonguing the government's balls)

Pipe guns were a means of getting around this since the official ones had to be licensed and registered.

And lol, no on the second one. While they gave the impression they still gave a damn, by the time the Great War happened, the country was effectively subordinated to banana republic level authority, and, at will, anyone could be imprisoned or detained without trial, according to Executive Order 99066.

It had gotten to the point where the government had become so strict that guys who got back from the Anchorage Campaign were redeployed to enforce martial law on their own countrymen.

They even had riots where protestors were shot like dogs (you can find the evidence at a Boston checkpoint in Fallout 4).

Perhaps those northeastern CommonWealth's cracked down on guns but it seems like everybody except the hippies just universally supported the war effort which makes getting rid of guns unnecessary. Weapons found in old houses are abundant so shitty pipe weapons just don't make sense.

I don't mean that they cared about the constitution. Its just that the second amendment, especially during the cold war, was zero'd on as the amendment that separated the free from the unfree. The population was used to gun ownership since people didn't seem to treat gun ownership as something strange in Vault 34. Pretty much every kid had a BB gun and its very likely that was part of a larger culture of gun ownership. The issue was't communist-style oppression where people were stripped of guns but a deep state of neoconservatives doing shit with the consent of professionals who were good at keeping secrets. The whole idea is the US became a fascist state and the thing about fascist states is that they usually made guns easier to acquire for most of the population.

Can't say I've played Fallout 4.

 

[c-no]

And Helios is actually based on a real life solar array, Nevada Solar One.

And the guns in F4 are one of the things that break my immersion. NV's guns were based on actual guns, while F4's guns had this weird, cartoony dieselpunk vibe to them. The pipe weapons would never function in real life, the combat rifle would never be used by soldiers in combat, and the assault rifle has this big ass water jacket over the barrel and nobody would ever be able to pick the damn thing up. I do like the 10mm pistol though, it kinda reminds me of the Savage 1907 .

And F4 got rid of one of the best enemies, the centaur. You have this writhing, grotesque monster which really shows the unethical depravity of pre-war scientists, and replaced it with the dumb mutant hound. It looks like they took the bulldog from the Tom and Jerry cartoons and painted it green! And we're supposed to take the super mutants as a serious threat?

I guess that's the big glaring difference between F4 and NV. New Vegas created an actual world with people with their own, thoughts, beliefs, and motivations. Fallout 4 is just a Saturday morning cartoon but for grown ups.

Didn't mind the combat rifle since that felt like it could be a more conventional assault rifle. The actual assault rifle on the other hand? A fuck ugly gun that would of just been better off as a turret based gun considering the barrel itself (funnily enough IMFDB states it's a mishmash of three machine guns).

The centaur, whether a pre-war depravity or a post-war creation of the Master or anyone else, being cut from the game really is a shame. They could of kept mutant hounds as a low level foe and put centaurs in for higher levels. Hell, they could of had a special centaur that would have the head of a human and the mutant hound head as a callback to the original centaur since Todd and company were able to reference the Shi and San Francisco. When looking at Fallout 4 and comparing it to New Vegas, it's all a step down since while you got different factions, there is no means of really trying to get them all working together since it's either "kill your son or nuke (some part of) the wasteland" with the wasteland being any of the groups that oppose another besides the Institute.

From the lore.

As the US inched closer to the Great War,martial law was declared against anyone deemed even remotely disloyal and the BADTFL was deputized to confiscate weapons and combat armor not allowed to have them (basically anyone who wasn't tonguing the government's balls)

Pipe guns were a means of getting around this since the official ones had to be licensed and registered.

And lol, no on the second one. While they gave the impression they still gave a damn, by the time the Great War happened, the country was effectively subordinated to banana republic level authority, and, at will, anyone could be imprisoned or detained without trial, according to Executive Order 99066.

It had gotten to the point where the government had become so strict that guys who got back from the Anchorage Campaign were redeployed to enforce martial law on their own countrymen.

They even had riots where protestors were shot like dogs (you can find the evidence at a Boston checkpoint in Fallout 4).

IIRC for "banana republic military", the FEV was used in testings on prisoners and the intro to Fallout had a power armored troop in the newly annexed Canada executing a guy.

https://techraptor.net/content/fallout-2-20th-anniversary

Pretty good article. Fallout 2 was rushed out by slackers, makes sense.

Aside from made by slackers, it was also released a month short of being made a year after the first Fallout.