Fallout series

"I just got a word of another settlement that--"
"Shut the fuck up Preston. Do it yourself."
When you first meet Preston he's all like I'm a good soldier and I can lead a squad but I'm no general. After that all he does is sit at base and come up with the Minutemen's strategy and send the general out to complete missions.
 
When you first meet Preston he's all like I'm a good soldier and I can lead a squad but I'm no general. After that all he does is sit at base and come up with the Minutemen's strategy and send the general out to complete missions.

Bethesda seems to have this thing where you still do grunt work no matter how high up a faction you get.
 
Bethesda seems to have this thing where you still do grunt work no matter how high up a faction you get.
On the other hand they tried the complete opposite way in Oblivion where you become the leader and all you do at that point is dictate orders once a month or week and get paid, only the Grand Champion of the Arena gets to keep doing their faction thing and even then no one ever challenges you for the title.

I'm kind of glad the cut the option to become the Elder of the Brotherhood since it would have been the normal business as usual only Kells or Danse give you orders. I prefer the idea of being the highest ranked soldier with permission to do whatever you deem worthy to advance Brotherhood goals.

I do think if they want to keep forcing you to become leader of a faction they need to have it so that isn't the end of the storyline and you actually need to lead your organization through some sort of crisis and have your choices matter. After that they can still give you the option to do grunt work or delegate it as you see fit.
 
Bethesda seems to have this thing where you still do grunt work no matter how high up a faction you get.
It’s becuase they’re split between giving you the actual gameplay (which gets repetitive but you’ll want to come back for in game rewards) and the “fulfilling” reward which is having a voice actor tell you that you’re the coolest guy and now you’re the boss man now.

I always thought Skyrim handled that pretty well in comparison to FO4. It makes some sense that the leader of an assassin/thief/fighter/research guild would continue leading in assassinating/thieving/fighting/researching. Not to mention the factions being seperate from the story, joining a faction with a bunch of bullshit radiant quests feels more like a choice and less like an obligation.
I do think if they want to keep forcing you to become leader of a faction they need to have it so that isn't the end of the storyline and you actually need to lead your organization through some sort of crisis and have your choices matter. After that they can still give you the option to do grunt work or delegate it as you see fit.
That would require Bethesda to write an interesting and involved story rather than a loosely tied together series of fill-in-the-blank radiant quests.

Frankly the key difference between Fallout 4 and New Vegas (both in general and in their treatment of story factions) is that there’s almost no (if any) radiant quests in New Vegas. Everything is placed where it is intended to be. New Vegas creates factions full of people that have real problems, and it feels that way because when characters address you they say “hey buddy I need you to go to The Strip and kill John McDouchebag because he stole my money” instead of “Hello mr awesome guy can you please grace me by going to this place and getting me this thing, I’ll have an identical job for you when you return”
 
I have a feeling the Brotherhood route was intended to be canon route fairly far into Fallout 4's development. They're by far the most developed faction while they other ones feel weirdly underdeveloped and incomplete in comparison.
 
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I have a feeling the Brotherhood route was intended to be canon route fairly far into Fallout 4's development. They're by far the most developed faction while they other ones feel weirdly underdeveloped and incomplete in comparison.

That ending where 3 factions survive seems to be canon. I doubt Bethesda would allow a genocidal ending to be canon.

The BoS simply has to survive. They're iconic and perfect for Bethesda because they can be molded into anything through changes in their leadership.
 
That ending where 3 factions survive seems to be canon. I doubt Bethesda would allow a genocidal ending to be canon.

The BoS simply has to survive. They're iconic and perfect for Bethesda because they can be molded into anything through changes in their leadership.

The BoS still survive if you destroy the Prydwen, you've just destroyed the command of the Capital Wasteland chapter. Hell they still show up in Vertibirds, so apparently they have a backup staging area just outside the Commonwealth. What you do is essentially kill off their WH40k imperium of man aspirations.

The Railroad seems as if it was the first faction that was worked on. You can do almost their entire questline before even doing the main story. And then, after the main story the radiant quest line up changes from putting up MILAs and clearing locations, to delivering care packages and taking down coursers. As well as a short questline about taking down the Railroads next biggest threat, the Raider leaders. And you get access to the BoS vertibird grenades.

After the BoS is over, they give you a quest to make reactor coolant, nothing else changes. Maybe I could get a grenade to call in a fully loaded gunship with knights as backup on it? no? nothing? okay. Well at least they sell you some decent armor and weapons.

If you side with the Institute? Nothing changes, you get the same radiant quests you got when you joined. I think the vendor starts selling relay grenades and you get Fathers lab coat. The scientists ask you whether to work on Synths or Weapons, I went to test it and nothing changes. Synths still spawn with the same weapons as normal, vendor still offers the same weapons.

The Minutemen only have radiant *insert enemy* is attacking the castle after endgame. Everything else is the stuff you get during a normal playthrough.
 
The BoS still survive if you destroy the Prydwen, you've just destroyed the command of the Capital Wasteland chapter. Hell they still show up in Vertibirds, so apparently they have a backup staging area just outside the Commonwealth. What you do is essentially kill off their WH40k imperium of man aspirations.

The Railroad seems as if it was the first faction that was worked on. You can do almost their entire questline before even doing the main story. And then, after the main story the radiant quest line up changes from putting up MILAs and clearing locations, to delivering care packages and taking down coursers. As well as a short questline about taking down the Railroads next biggest threat, the Raider leaders. And you get access to the BoS vertibird grenades.

After the BoS is over, they give you a quest to make reactor coolant, nothing else changes. Maybe I could get a grenade to call in a fully loaded gunship with knights as backup on it? no? nothing? okay. Well at least they sell you some decent armor and weapons.

If you side with the Institute? Nothing changes, you get the same radiant quests you got when you joined. I think the vendor starts selling relay grenades and you get Fathers lab coat. The scientists ask you whether to work on Synths or Weapons, I went to test it and nothing changes. Synths still spawn with the same weapons as normal, vendor still offers the same weapons.

The Minutemen only have radiant *insert enemy* is attacking the castle after endgame. Everything else is the stuff you get during a normal playthrough.

Pretty much.

The Minuteman being so generic is partially deliberate. They are the "neutral" faction of the four, though depending on how you play,you can have them remain neutral or shift their alignment to that of the faction you choose to ally them with.

In universe, they really only have one broad goal, and that's to serve as the Commonwealth's standing army against threats to its people, and all that changes depending on your allying with another faction is that the other factions goals get tacked onto that.

The Institute is slightly disappointing I admit, but it does make some sense you having a limited amount of control over their activity, as Father was basically the big picture guy while the other departments could pursue their own projects with a very free hand. It's even mentioned, if you check out their lore, that the Director position is effectively limited to "ensuring the well being of the Institute as an entity", they don't really have much say on specific sub-directories, who are free to pursue their own projects so long as they don't endanger the group.

Given their scientist oriented ethos, it does make conceptual sense.

The Railroad being so narrow storywise is also logical. They really have only one goal, and that's to put a stop to Synths being used by the Institute as slaves. They don't, as a whole, give a flying fuck about anything else. In fact, it's only when their back is to the wall and they're up shit creek without outside help do they swallow their pride and go seek the Minutemen for the army they'd need to achieve their goals.

The Brotherhood petering out after the Institute is gone and their post main goal quests being ho-hum is also logical. All they are there for is two things: Stop the Institute and tap the Commonwealth of it's technological salvage.

Once the first goal is met, the second, which has no definitive end, basically gives them the excuse to stick around, but doesn't really give the player much more to do for them.


I'm kind of glad the cut the option to become the Elder of the Brotherhood since it would have been the normal business as usual only Kells or Danse give you orders. I prefer the idea of being the highest ranked soldier with permission to do whatever you deem worthy to advance Brotherhood goals.

I do think if they want to keep forcing you to become leader of a faction they need to have it so that isn't the end of the storyline and you actually need to lead your organization through some sort of crisis and have your choices matter. After that they can still give you the option to do grunt work or delegate it as you see fit.

Technically, they cut two paths, one of which can be revived with mods.

One allows Danse to challenge Maxson for the position of Elder and take over. This was cut before they went anywhere too definite with it, and there's not too much in the game files to really integrate it into the finished product without throwing the BoS plot off it's axis, and what's left in the game files are mere fragments anyway.

The second is basically you becoming SENTINEL (not Elder) if you used the Minutemen to take down the Institute, and left the BoS out of it entirely before you were forced to take sides definitively for or against them (best time to do is after Blind Betrayal). A mod restores what is basically Maxson being a little annoyed you didn't involve the Brotherhood, but admits you did get the job done and the Brotherhood didn't have to shed too much of their own blood to do what they came there to do as their primary goal (kill the Institute), so while unorthodox and not according to how he planned it out, he'd have to be an ungrateful jackass to not acknowledge what you pulled off so you become a Sentinel, which is basically one step below him and you basically outrank everyone else.

Here's the mod that re-enables this:

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12183

This does have the consequences of the Brotherhood being a mix of "really sucks we didn't get to kick the Institute's ass" and "well, at least it was a clever way to get the job done with minimal casualties", which is opposed to how the BoS practically deify you as a badass if you did the pure BoS path.

There is also mod that let's you avoid becoming enemies with Railroad while still remaining friends with the Brotherhood, basically involves talking Captain Kells out of saying "let's kill the Railroad just to make sure they don't make our lives suck later":

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20330

If you manage to talk him out of it, the game skips the quest where the Railroad has to die at BoS behest, though you can still piss the BoS off later by siding with the Institute or otherwise helping the Railroad in such a way it still put you at war with the BoS later (they left in a way to do this even if you talk down Kells with that mod, clearly Bethseda anticipated this possibility).
 
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Technically speaking, Father does give a reason, but it basically amounts to a fatalistic "the surface is fucked, so who cares about the surface dwellers, might as well make a superior race to replace them".

Ironically, not too different from the Master from FO1, but same flaws are inherent in this little plan, only it's a group working on it, and they are using bioroids, not Super Mutants, but same basic flaws, and even the game involves you taking them over and trying to make them work away from this line of thinking.

Also, speaking of things they didn't think through, the pipe weapons make SOME degree of sense in some regards, like the Sten like pipe pistols and rifles (particularly the sideways magazines), I can see the logic in making them work like an IRL Sten, but then we get to the aiming reticles and sights, and then you you just want to slap Bethseda because what they came up with is just asinine.

A modder made something that make a LOT more sense to replace the Bethseda defaults that actually looks like an actual gunsight made by a guy in his garage.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6965
 
Technically speaking, Father does give a reason, but it basically amounts to a fatalistic "the surface is fucked, so who cares about the surface dwellers, might as well make a superior race to replace them".

That's one of the main reasons for lots of factions in the fallout universe

Ironically, not too different from the Master from FO1, but same flaws are inherent in this little plan, only it's a group working on it, and they are using bioroids, not Super Mutants, but same basic flaws, and even the game involves you taking them over and trying to make them work away from this line of thinking.

Its is quite different. The master believed that humanity was doomed and the only way for the human race to survive was to convert every one into super mutants. And his flaw was mainly that he refused to believe that an all male sterile race was doomed to fail, and that humanity was still doomed to fail he just made it longer. The institute built synths for god knows what ever reason. And used them to kidnap and replace people, and the reason for it was to spy on people so the institute knew what was going on on the surface. And the institute didn't really have a superior race thing going on if they did I doubt they would recruit people from the surface.
 
That's one of the main reasons for lots of factions in the fallout universe



Its is quite different. The master believed that humanity was doomed and the only way for the human race to survive was to convert every one into super mutants. And his flaw was mainly that he refused to believe that an all male sterile race was doomed to fail, and that humanity was still doomed to fail he just made it longer. The institute built synths for god knows what ever reason. And used them to kidnap and replace people, and the reason for it was to spy on people so the institute knew what was going on on the surface. And the institute didn't really have a superior race thing going on if they did I doubt they would recruit people from the surface.

Actually, if you really go through the lore (admittedly it's a bit more convoluted and the Institute has a problem with not outright stating their intentions), it's basically their end game goal, they just refuse to be satisfied with the results and keep experimenting.

As for recruiting wastelanders, they did recruit Kellogg, but that's only because he proved himself capable of making their latest and greatest (at the time) Synths his bitch, and they needed his skills. They didn't like him one little bit, but they needed him, they both knew it, so they had a contract neither side broke because they both got quite a bit out of the deal (Kellogg especially notes they extended his natural lifespan far more than it should have been with their biotech). They also, if you go snooping around their HQ, have spies and informants and operatives all over the Commonwealth, so they do recognize they do need some proxies on the surface until the need for them becomes irrelevant.

As for the synths, they do state that they made them to be better humans. In their view, humanity was fucked over irrevocably by the Great War, and exposure to constant radiation had basically and fatally corrupted the human genome, and synth were were intended (by their latest incarnations) to eventually replace all of humanity on the surface once they worked out all the kinks in making them.

If you examine all their progress reports on their latest synths, they already managed to make genetic duplicates of people that would fool a DNA test, made beings that don't require sleep (though they can still feel the need and derive benefit from it), can't become obese, have no genetic defects in the sense of humans post-Great War, and thanks to some tweaks made with the introduction of a specially tweaked version of FEV (different from the Mariposa and Vault 87 version), they managed to give the synths an amazing amount of genetic diversity despite really only having one batch of pure human DNA to work with.

However, like the Master, the same flaws remain. Synths are sterile, they cannot reproduce on their own, and in fact the process of making them still requires biosynthenic components constructed in a lab, much like the Master had to keep dunking actual people in FEV, he couldn't just spawn new Super Mutants right out of the vat. And ultimately, they do want the Synths to be a reproduction of all human functions and capabilities long term, and like the Master ignore the fact at least one aspect of their very plan kinda dooms the rest to failure long-term.

Because of this, the Institute is still spinning their wheels, trying to overcome this hurdle, and while they do this, their mad scientist ethos (let's face it, they are basically a more sober if less directed Think Tank) is what drives all that crazy and somewhat counterproductive crap involving kidnapping people and using them as lab rats. If you talk to Virgil, who defected from the Institute, he admits he realized this sort of shit was amoral and stupid and his conscience could no longer abide fucking with wastelanders for what amounted to "well, might as well get another guinea pig for our latest experiment".
 
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Technically, they cut two paths, one of which can be revived with mods.

One allows Danse to challenge Maxson for the position of Elder and take over. This was cut before they went anywhere too definite with it, and there's not too much in the game files to really integrate it into the finished product without throwing the BoS plot off it's axis, and what's left in the game files are mere fragments anyway.

The second is basically you becoming SENTINEL (not Elder) if you used the Minutemen to take down the Institute, and left the BoS out of it entirely before you were forced to take sides definitively for or against them (best time to do is after Blind Betrayal). A mod restores what is basically Maxson being a little annoyed you didn't involve the Brotherhood, but admits you did get the job done and the Brotherhood didn't have to shed too much of their own blood to do what they came there to do as their primary goal (kill the Institute), so while unorthodox and not according to how he planned it out, he'd have to be an ungrateful jackass to not acknowledge what you pulled off so you become a Sentinel, which is basically one step below him and you basically outrank everyone else.

Here's the mod that re-enables this:

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12183

This does have the consequences of the Brotherhood being a mix of "really sucks we didn't get to kick the Institute's ass" and "well, at least it was a clever way to get the job done with minimal casualties", which is opposed to how the BoS practically deify you as a badass if you did the pure BoS path.

There is also mod that let's you avoid becoming enemies with Railroad while still remaining friends with the Brotherhood, basically involves talking Captain Kells out of saying "let's kill the Railroad just to make sure they don't make our lives suck later":

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20330

If you manage to talk him out of it, the game skips the quest where the Railroad has to die at BoS behest, though you can still piss the BoS off later by siding with the Institute or otherwise helping the Railroad in such a way it still put you at war with the BoS later (they left in a way to do this even if you talk down Kells with that mod, clearly Bethseda anticipated this possibility).
For some reason I thought it was you challenging Maxson that was cut from the game.

I always liked the idea of the Sentinel forming the Minutemen as a Brotherhood backed militia to protect the Commonwealth from threats and a proving ground for future members of the Brotherhood. Minutemen get some extra fire power and military advisers and the Brotherhood get some extra cannon fodder. I know there are mods that have that sort of effect but it would have been cool to have as an option as a post game idea. Especially since when you claim settlements for the Brotherhood you lose them.

Also once the Institute is finished you still have all the normal jobs available like search and destroy, tech collection, scribe escort, and taking children into war zones to watch you kill people. So I guess its just business as usual for them.
 
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Its is quite different. The master believed that humanity was doomed and the only way for the human race to survive was to convert every one into super mutants. And his flaw was mainly that he refused to believe that an all male sterile race was doomed to fail, and that humanity was still doomed to fail he just made it longer. The institute built synths for god knows what ever reason. And used them to kidnap and replace people, and the reason for it was to spy on people so the institute knew what was going on on the surface. And the institute didn't really have a superior race thing going on if they did I doubt they would recruit people from the surface.

Yeah I was just doing the Institute questline for the achievements yesterday. And after checking out all the speech options. Father and by proxy the Institute consider the surface to be screwed, so they dump their scientific rubbish up there, and kidnap people from there to experiment with FEV on, they consider them already dead, so why not do something useful with them? I wonder if it had anything to do with Fathers terminal cancer? Since he says, "My life could be prolonged, but at increasingly terrible cost.". Funnily enough the FEV lab was blown up, Synth Shaun was created and Virgil escapes roughly around the same time you are awoken from your pod. So I wonder if those events are linked?

I think I'm starting understand why the Gen-3 synths were made in the Institutes mind. As Father said they wanted the perfect machine. Capable of anything. They can fill an almost infinite number of roles if you viewed them simply as robots. And you only need one model. Hard Labor, Companionship, Security, Surface community infiltration to collect information on possible threats or old world technology to scavenge, even Special Ops with the Coursers.

In Curies quest you discover from Dr Amari that Synths sometimes have cybernetic implants in order to translate the AI programming of a Ms Nanny into the proper configuration for processing of a synth brain. So in a way they are initially robots, although the neural networking of the brain ends up "upgrading" them to self awareness that the Institute considers malfunctions, since they didn't want it to happen.

The Institutes thinking actually makes sense if you realize they don't consider the surface and the people there to be like them. It's like virtually like visiting another planet to them, since any time you see Institute people up there they are always in enviro-suits. They believe eventually anarchy and radioactive wildlife will eventually kill off everyone.
 
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I could not into Fallout 4 for awhile, but I've picked it back up recently and I'm enjoying it. I honestly don't care that much about finding my son, but exploring the Commonwealth is fun, I GUESS.

I really wish there were more glove weapons, tho. I fucking loved the glove weapons in FNV. Pushy and the Saturnite Fist (from OWB) are my particular favorites.
and the high end unarmed weapons in F4 like the power fist look ugly as hell when fully upgraded, in comparison to the stuff in FNV like the ballistic fist.
 
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