Fallout series

They took that stuff and doubled down on it. In reality, if Vault-Tec were the least bit realistic, they'd save 99.9% of the vaults for control groups that work as advertised, while only .1% will be for social experiments, usually ones staffed with criminals from society. Most vaults would just lock up and teach the populace to remain loyal to American values, so when the Enclave emerges and a new president makes himself public, the Vaults open up and the people start rebuilding America. Also, realistically, the Enclave would be housed at Raven Rock or some bunker close to DC, not some Oil Rig out in the west coast that can easily be destroyed if a Chinese Communist warship or submarine pops up with ballistic missiles or nuclear warheads. Hence why I found the Enclave in Fallout 3 to be more realistic than the Enclave in 2. In FO2, the Enclave is residing in a very vulnerable post, with an offshore oil rig that has a reactor that can go critical, not to mention it's vulnerable to naval assaults if any remnant of the Chinese Communist fleet remained operational. Sure, there was some mad scientist shit back in those years, but they wouldn't be stupid enough to jeopardize the future of the country. I suppose the heads of the US government and Vault Tec in Fallout were tripping on Psycho when coming up with those plans.
They were most likely on drugs. Mentats, Daddy-o for the scientists. Day Tripper and no doubt cocaine for the government. I don't know when it happened, but at some point, the U.S. government ceased to represent the people and instead looked after themselves. Maybe it happened once the commonwealths were established, which means that the Fallout U.S. effectively ended in 1969.

The Enclave that we see post-war are the descendants of corporate executives, politicians, bureaucrats, and military officials; all are brainwashed by the propaganda that they are America. Everyone else in the wasteland are not Americans, but also not even human. I can't recall if anything in F76 contradicts this, but I believe immediate post-war Enclave did nothing to help survivors outside their bunkers. They have an ingrained belief of superiority that goes beyond even Nazi Aryanism. Hell, they shot at non-mutated humans in Vault 13 during the opening of Fallout 2! If they viewed Vault citizens like that, there is no way that they would view anyone not Enclave with any sense of humanity.
 
Nobody even benefited from the experiments, as far as canon goes. Unless you want to count Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel as canon and maybe someone in the Secret Vault was poring over the experiment results. All these experiments, all the suffering they caused. All for nothing, since even the Enclave didn't benefit from it and just decided to genocide the wasteland instead.
Not every experimental vault was some kind of suffering situation, and a lot of them still got on just fine. Doc Mitchell's for example. It was experimental, but it saved a lot of Clark County's population, and its experiment was benign. The benefit of the vaults was that the portions of the US government interested in space colonization wanted to learn how to manage in not only a post-apocalyptic but post-Earth society. In some ways they did benefit, and being an experiment didn't mean it was always bad. The overall problem was no amount of money could afford to build enough vaults to keep everyone perfectly safe, so they had to make it with what resources they had, and the endgame was to take the vault dwellers and head to space.
 
They were most likely on drugs. Mentats, Daddy-o for the scientists. Day Tripper and no doubt cocaine for the government. I don't know when it happened, but at some point, the U.S. government ceased to represent the people and instead looked after themselves. Maybe it happened once the commonwealths were established, which means that the Fallout U.S. effectively ended in 1969.

The Enclave that we see post-war are the descendants of corporate executives, politicians, bureaucrats, and military officials; all are brainwashed by the propaganda that they are America. Everyone else in the wasteland are not Americans, but also not even human. I can't recall if anything in F76 contradicts this, but I believe immediate post-war Enclave did nothing to help survivors outside their bunkers. They have an ingrained belief of superiority that goes beyond even Nazi Aryanism. Hell, they shot at non-mutated humans in Vault 13 during the opening of Fallout 2! If they viewed Vault citizens like that, there is no way that they would view anyone not Enclave with any sense of humanity.
The Commonwealths were just amalgamations of states. That didn't kill the US, the nuclear bombs did. If it wasn't for the Commies being sore losers, and if it wasn't for Vault-Tec being crazy AF, the US would have survived.

By the way, doesn't that make Robert Edwin House officially a member of the Enclave? I mean, he did build all their robots and shit. I suppose a pro-Enclave Courier would be the Augustus Autumn or Frank Horrigan of Fallout New Vegas, especially if they work for House or overthrow him so they can re-establish the United States in New Vegas. House is like what if John Henry Eden dropped the patriotic propaganda and the anti-mutant bullshit and just went for pure pragmatism and taking over the wasteland. Fallout New Vegas really is made with Fallout 3 fans in mind, especially people who wanted to work with Eden but couldn't get past him being a genocidal talking toaster.

Killing Vault citizens actually makes the Enclave look stupid. The intro to Fallout 2 looks cool, but once you learn the Enclave's real objectives (bring back pure humans to rule the world) then shooting at un-mutated, pure humans in Vault 13 is anathema to their long-term goal. Which again, just makes the Enclave into this cartoony villainous outfit in FO2. It just cracks me up when, after playing New Vegas and seeing its nuanced baddies, then the Fallout purist (anti-Bethesda) fans talk to me about how the same nuance was in Fallout 1 and 2 while demonizing Fallout 3, I come over and check things out, only to find the FO2 Enclave to be so cartoonishly evil and such a shallow Nazi stereotype that it begs belief.

It's funny how a lot of people shit on the Fallout 3 Enclave for being cliche villains, when the Fallout 2 Enclave makes them look like saints in comparison. All Autumn wanted to do was establish government authority, he didn't give a shit about killing all mutated people, he wanted the people of the wasteland to look to him for guidance, so he wanted the purifier so he can use it as a bargaining chip. Eden and his genocidal plans were something of a secret to EVERYONE in the Enclave, since he only reveals it to a total stranger, and even if you show the FEV vial to Autumn in the end, he gets shocked and says that they abandoned that plan months ago. Meaning that most of the people in the Enclave went into the Capital Wasteland believing that they were there to save the people of the wasteland and give them direction-not kill them all. Otherwise, nothing would have stopped them from just showing up at Megaton, Big Town, Rivet City, and Tenpenny Towers and just depopulating those settlements with an excess of plasma fire and minigun rounds. In short, if Richardson's Enclave is the American version of Hitler's Third Reich, Augustus Autumn's Enclave is more like the American version of the 1871 German Kaiserreich, alternatively known as the Second Reich: just as dedicated to conquest as the former, but not that obsessed with eugenics.

That, and Eden wanting to use the FEV on the Capital Wasteland was more due to desperation. Neither his forces nor the Brotherhood of Steel could hold back the Super Mutants infesting the capital city, so instead of fighting them block-by-block like the Brotherhood of Steel does, Eden wants to go for a full clean slate and kill all mutated people so that the pure humans of the Enclave have some lebensraum in the capital. It's a lot more understandable than the Enclave wanting to kill all wastelanders with the FEV in Fallout 2 because "LOL we can". In Fallout 3, the president wants to use the FEV out of desperation, because both his forces and the Brotherhood of Steel can't defeat the Super Mutant forces in the capital, while the rest of his men just want to take over the place and establish order for the good of the wasteland and its people. In Fallout 2, despite having more than enough firepower to bury or conquer any faction in the wasteland, the president wants everyone outside his little Enclave dead because "LOL they're impure".

Which is more nuanced and believable? The side that wants everyone dead just because of racial impurities, or the side that just wants to conquer and establish order? Even the Nazis spared non-Aryans so they can have servants; they only killed the Jews and Slavs because they saw those races as a threat, whereas Scandinavians were considered kindred spirits, and Latin races such as the French, Spanish and Italians were seen as acceptable, if not lesser. You can't have a master race if there are no lesser races, after all.

Not every experimental vault was some kind of suffering situation, and a lot of them still got on just fine. Doc Mitchell's for example. It was experimental, but it saved a lot of Clark County's population, and its experiment was benign. The benefit of the vaults was that the portions of the US government interested in space colonization wanted to learn how to manage in not only a post-apocalyptic but post-Earth society. In some ways they did benefit, and being an experiment didn't mean it was always bad. The overall problem was no amount of money could afford to build enough vaults to keep everyone perfectly safe, so they had to make it with what resources they had, and the endgame was to take the vault dwellers and head to space.
At most, that's half of them. A large number of vaults still had crappy situations for the inhabitants. The ones that worked as promised were control vaults, and only a few vaults had experiments that were beneficial to the inhabitants.

And taking them all to space is a crapshoot at this point; nobody even planned for that outside of House. He's the only faction leader in the five main games (Fallouts 1-4 and New Vegas) who talked about exploring space.
 
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A mailman can't run a nation-state effectively.
The courier only starts as a mailman. By the end of the game you can be a soldier, scientist, and even technically a budding politician if your charisma and speech are high enough. There's no reason that Courier 6 couldn't become a damn fine leader for New Vegas, especially with all the connections they can end up making along the way. Backed (in some case begrudgingly) by the NCR, the Mojave Brotherhood of Steel, Great Khans, Boomers, The Kings, the Families of New Vegas, the Think Tank, the Tribes of Zion, the Super Mutants of Jacobstown, and the various settlements like Goodsprings, West Side, etc. Yeah, that's a helluva power base to step into, especially because the Courier surrounds themselves with allies like Boone, Arcade, Veronica, Cass, Raul, all sorts of capable and intelligent people that can help the Courier carry out their plans to achieve a new vision of the world.
 
The Commonwealths were just amalgamations of states. That didn't kill the US, the nuclear bombs did. If it wasn't for the Commies being sore losers, and if it wasn't for Vault-Tec being crazy AF, the US would have survived.

By the way, doesn't that make Robert Edwin House officially a member of the Enclave? I mean, he did build all their robots and shit. I suppose a pro-Enclave Courier would be the Augustus Autumn or Frank Horrigan of Fallout New Vegas, especially if they work for House or overthrow him so they can re-establish the United States in New Vegas. House is like what if John Henry Eden dropped the patriotic propaganda and the anti-mutant bullshit and just went for pure pragmatism and taking over the wasteland. Fallout New Vegas really is made with Fallout 3 fans in mind, especially people who wanted to work with Eden but couldn't get past him being a genocidal talking toaster.

Killing Vault citizens actually makes the Enclave look stupid. The intro to Fallout 2 looks cool, but once you learn the Enclave's real objectives (bring back pure humans to rule the world) then shooting at un-mutated, pure humans in Vault 13 is anathema to their long-term goal. Which again, just makes the Enclave into this cartoony villainous outfit in FO2. It just cracks me up when, after playing New Vegas and seeing its nuanced baddies, then the Fallout purist (anti-Bethesda) fans talk to me about how the same nuance was in Fallout 1 and 2 while demonizing Fallout 3, I come over and check things out, only to find the FO2 Enclave to be so cartoonishly evil and such a shallow Nazi stereotype that it begs belief.

It's funny how a lot of people shit on the Fallout 3 Enclave for being cliche villains, when the Fallout 2 Enclave makes them look like saints in comparison. All Autumn wanted to do was establish government authority, he didn't give a shit about killing all mutated people, he wanted the people of the wasteland to look to him for guidance, so he wanted the purifier so he can use it as a bargaining chip. Eden and his genocidal plans were something of a secret to EVERYONE in the Enclave, since he only reveals it to a total stranger, and even if you show the FEV vial to Autumn in the end, he gets shocked and says that they abandoned that plan months ago. Meaning that most of the people in the Enclave went into the Capital Wasteland believing that they were there to save the people of the wasteland and give them direction-not kill them all. Otherwise, nothing would have stopped them from just showing up at Megaton, Big Town, Rivet City, and Tenpenny Towers and just depopulating those settlements with an excess of plasma fire and minigun rounds. In short, if Richardson's Enclave is the American version of Hitler's Third Reich, Augustus Autumn's Enclave is more like the American version of the 1871 German Kaiserreich, alternatively known as the Second Reich: just as dedicated to conquest as the former, but not that obsessed with eugenics.

That, and Eden wanting to use the FEV on the Capital Wasteland was more due to desperation. Neither his forces nor the Brotherhood of Steel could hold back the Super Mutants infesting the capital city, so instead of fighting them block-by-block like the Brotherhood of Steel does, Eden wants to go for a full clean slate and kill all mutated people so that the pure humans of the Enclave have some lebensraum in the capital. It's a lot more understandable than the Enclave wanting to kill all wastelanders with the FEV in Fallout 2 because "LOL we can". In Fallout 3, the president wants to use the FEV out of desperation, because both his forces and the Brotherhood of Steel can't defeat the Super Mutant forces in the capital, while the rest of his men just want to take over the place and establish order for the good of the wasteland and its people. In Fallout 2, despite having more than enough firepower to bury or conquer any faction in the wasteland, the president wants everyone outside his little Enclave dead because "LOL they're impure".

Which is more nuanced and believable? The side that wants everyone dead just because of racial impurities, or the side that just wants to conquer and establish order? Even the Nazis spared non-Aryans so they can have servants; they only killed the Jews and Slavs because they saw those races as a threat, whereas Scandinavians were considered kindred spirits, and Latin races such as the French, Spanish and Italians were seen as acceptable, if not lesser. You can't have a master race if there are no lesser races, after all.


At most, that's half of them. A large number of vaults still had crappy situations for the inhabitants. The ones that worked as promised were control vaults, and only a few vaults had experiments that were beneficial to the inhabitants.

And taking them all to space is a crapshoot at this point; nobody even planned for that outside of House. He's the only faction leader in the five main games (Fallouts 1-4 and New Vegas) who talked about exploring space.
For the Enclave shooting Vault 13's dwellers, I'd assume the ones at the door would be excused as "compromised from background radiation" along with the fact they could use any other excuse like "the Vault Dweller brought in radiation and dealings with the BOS for some computer that replaced the Overseer." Plus there's the FEV. They needed some lab rats and the dwellers of Vault 13 was their best stock for part of an experiment. At the very least with the Enclave of Fallout 2, they weren't being led by a Southern accented man who sounded like a cuck when he tried to assert himself with "I AM IN CONTROL HERE, I AM THE ENCLAVE" and they had more power back then compared to whatever they had in 3. One could assume the Enclave of 2 had enough citizens to make the society they wanted and if any vault that wasn't part of some experiment survived, they'd likely hunt down those vaults, recruit the populace, and give them a bogus story of what was going on in the outside world after the bombs fell. Meanwhile in 3, Autumn's plans were going in a different direction in not wanting to use the FEV since he may of not been as genocidal as Dick Richardson.

As for Eden, it's been years since I played 3 but I thought his reasoning boiled down to "reading every info and order behind a president and emulating their actions." In his case, I'd imagine Eden wanted to make use of the FEV to live up to some part of Richardson's legacy. Eden was more or less an AI or computer that was running on exceptional programming. Meanwhile, Autumn at least tried something different. As for firepower and the Enclave in 2, I imagine using the FEV would save them manpower, time, and bullets. Why waste a bullet or energy cell on a bunch of tribals and wastelanders when the science teams cook up a new deadly gas that'll spread around the airstream that'll kill everyone that hasn't gotten their vaccinations.
 
It's funny how a lot of people shit on the Fallout 3 Enclave for being cliche villains, when the Fallout 2 Enclave makes them look like saints in comparison. All Autumn wanted to do was establish government authority, he didn't give a shit about killing all mutated people, he wanted the people of the wasteland to look to him for guidance, so he wanted the purifier so he can use it as a bargaining chip. Eden and his genocidal plans were something of a secret to EVERYONE in the Enclave, since he only reveals it to a total stranger, and even if you show the FEV vial to Autumn in the end, he gets shocked and says that they abandoned that plan months ago. Meaning that most of the people in the Enclave went into the Capital Wasteland believing that they were there to save the people of the wasteland and give them direction-not kill them all. Otherwise, nothing would have stopped them from just showing up at Megaton, Big Town, Rivet City, and Tenpenny Towers and just depopulating those settlements with an excess of plasma fire and minigun rounds. In short, if Richardson's Enclave is the American version of Hitler's Third Reich, Augustus Autumn's Enclave is more like the American version of the 1871 German Kaiserreich, alternatively known as the Second Reich: just as dedicated to conquest as the former, but not that obsessed with eugenics.
Actually that gives me something to think about. Eden would have been built by the original Enclave while Colonel Autumn was a descendent of them. In fact Colonel Autumn would have been from the military side of the Enclave, possibly descending from US military personnel. Richardson would have been many generations down from the original Enclave but acts just as genocidal as the original. Perhaps there is a schism in the Enclave both generational and between the military and political class. The military, being the descendants of veterans who bought into nationalistic propaganda and fought for the American people, would have wanted to protect them. Something like a benevolent dictatorship. While the politicians were selfish and viewed the rest of humanity as inferiors to be used in experiments.
 
I thought of Vault-Tec as a commentary on the unethical science of the era. The 50s-60s were just coming out of the time when eugenics was thought of as a reasonable scientific study. The Tuskegee syphilis experiment was ongoing, MKUltra started up. Stanley Milgram conducted his Obedience experiment in 1964 and the Stanford Prison experiment happened in 1971. This is mad science shut and pretty much all of America's pre-war scientists were mad scientists, just look at Big MT.

I doubt that the pre-war government was a government for the American people. It is less corruption and more an aristocracy. They thought themselves as superior beings even before the war, which is why they commissioned the vaults and researched FEV. It is in the name of the virus: Forced Evolutionary Virus. They wanted to transform humanity into something else to escape the cycle of war, which they knew was going to end in nuclear war. Hell, even the Institute is an offshoot of this belief: there tagline is 'Mankind, Redefined'. The FEV is biological transformation to become immune to disease/radiation, the Vaults are a psychological transformation to survive deep-space colonization (based on Black Isle F3), and the Institute is a technological transformation to make a new version of humanity. However, all of this was for the pleasure of the elite; the majority are test subjects.

House is also an example of this elite arrogance, except without the desire to use the rest of humanity as guinea pigs. He truly wants to make New Vegas an oasis in the wasteland, but the steps to make it so must only come from his plans. Vegas must be built up exactly as he calculated, anything else he doesn't pay mind to. He doesn't give a fuck about the wellbeing of Outer New Vegas and wouldn't have been aware of some of the White Glove Society returning to cannibalism without the player telling him. He allows to Omertas to conduct sex trafficking operations. He never suspected that Benny would want to overthrow him, in fact, he believed that Benny would be his agent like the Courier can be. I don't believe that House wanted to have the Courier be his replacement. House never intended to die. He wants be in charge; forever. He believes that because he holds a full deck, the House will always win. He never thought that someone holds their own ace up their sleeve.
To be fair about House's elite arrogance, he's, possibly moreso than anyone else in Fallout, earned it. If I shot down the majority of the nukes headed for an entire region after calculating events to within a day's margin of error, I'd be pretty arrogant about it too.

He definitely has some flaws, unaware of the darker side of the White Gloves for one, and the Omertas for another. I suppose with the Omertas he had them play into his nostalgia for the mob with the reasoning that it was better to consolidate a black market that was always going to happen into one major player. Still doesn't work out well without the Courier's help. To be honest, the thing about him that pissed me off the most was destroying the Kings if you broker peace between them and NCR.

Otherwise, though, he doesn't like to stray from his plans but he will absolutely do so if it's merited. Picking Courier Six as his new agent, the factions you can convince him to leave alone, etc. Hell, the Brotherhood he ends up being right on refusing to compromise about.

Yeah, he's apathetic to the plight of everywhere that isn't his personal fiefdom, but he's pretty open and honest about that, you can still help those places as well, and I find it sort of amusing that the best Wild Card endings (in my personal opinion) are mostly the things he wanted done with/to factions anyway.

So, like every faction. He's got his bad, got his good. I'd say he's the best option.
 
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It's bullshit that you can't talk down the Enclave in Fallout 2 the same way you could do to the Master in Fallout 1. At least you can convince Richard Grey that he's wrong before he blows his own brains out. And unlike Fallout 3, where the Enclave knows who you are and knows to shoot you at first glance, in Fallout 2, you can infiltrate them, down to the point where everyone from their president to random comm officers and drill chiefs believe you to be one of them. So why not go the extra mile and have a very persuasive Chosen One smooth-talk the Enclave into joining the NCR and dropping their genocidal bullshit plans?

Especially when you consider that 1000 idiots in an oil rig and a couple hundred from a military base will wind up dying out due to inbreeding in a couple generations. Meanwhile, if they intermingled with the mutated humans and used their firepower to restore order and civilization to the wasteland, they not only could get more resistance to the harsh conditions of the wasteland, but also gain a larger pool of manpower for workers and cannon fodder. The Chosen One can use that to convince President Richardson that making peace with the NCR is a far better option than allowing less than 2000 people to inherit the Earth and eventually die out from inbreeding.

Sure, have the ending where you blow up the Enclave and feel like a badass, but would it kill them to have an ending where the Chosen One, having seamlessly infiltrated the Enclave, persuades its leaders to make peace with the NCR instead of committing genocide? It would have been a lot smarter and it would go a long way to explain how the NCR suddenly became Imperialistic in New Vegas and how they defeated the Brotherhood of Steel. The NCR becoming imperialists and them defeating the Brotherhood would make far more sense, if they have American government remnants lending them power-armored soldiers to make short work of the Brotherhood of Steel while trying to get them to retake as much of old America as possible.

Suddenly, the NCR going from democracy to imperialism would make more sense, especially if the Enclave joined them and convinced them that they rightfully own everything from California to New England. You can even explain away the Fallout 3 BoS and Enclave by saying that the BoS in Fallout 3 is what's left of the Brotherhood, fleeing to the Capital Wasteland from the west coast after the NCR and the Enclave tried to eradicate them, and the Enclave in the Capital Wasteland was a detachment of troops sent by NCR/Enclave leaders back in the west coast, whose goal is to finish the eradication of the Brotherhood and establish a base at the nation's former capital.

For the Enclave shooting Vault 13's dwellers, I'd assume the ones at the door would be excused as "compromised from background radiation" along with the fact they could use any other excuse like "the Vault Dweller brought in radiation and dealings with the BOS for some computer that replaced the Overseer." Plus there's the FEV. They needed some lab rats and the dwellers of Vault 13 was their best stock for part of an experiment. At the very least with the Enclave of Fallout 2, they weren't being led by a Southern accented man who sounded like a cuck when he tried to assert himself with "I AM IN CONTROL HERE, I AM THE ENCLAVE" and they had more power back then compared to whatever they had in 3. One could assume the Enclave of 2 had enough citizens to make the society they wanted and if any vault that wasn't part of some experiment survived, they'd likely hunt down those vaults, recruit the populace, and give them a bogus story of what was going on in the outside world after the bombs fell. Meanwhile in 3, Autumn's plans were going in a different direction in not wanting to use the FEV since he may of not been as genocidal as Dick Richardson.

As for Eden, it's been years since I played 3 but I thought his reasoning boiled down to "reading every info and order behind a president and emulating their actions." In his case, I'd imagine Eden wanted to make use of the FEV to live up to some part of Richardson's legacy. Eden was more or less an AI or computer that was running on exceptional programming. Meanwhile, Autumn at least tried something different. As for firepower and the Enclave in 2, I imagine using the FEV would save them manpower, time, and bullets. Why waste a bullet or energy cell on a bunch of tribals and wastelanders when the science teams cook up a new deadly gas that'll spread around the airstream that'll kill everyone that hasn't gotten their vaccinations.

That's the problem, though. They had more power. The FEV plan was completely unnecessary. Not just that, but the Enclave in FO2 consisted of 1000 yahoos in an oil rig and maybe a couple hundred in the nearby Navarro base. If they used the FEV and killed damn near everyone, they themselves would die out in a few generations due to inbreeding and living in a still-irradiated environment. In fact, MATING with the somewhat mutated wastelanders would probably make them more resistant to radiation, since the wastelanders would naturally have built up a stronger resistance to radiation when compared to people hiding in vaults and oil rigs that for all intents and purposes, are akin to the Quarians of Mass Effect: safe inside their own environments, but if they go outside into the irradiated wasteland, the radiation and elements will hit them full force. Not only does the Enclave in Fallout 2 come off as needlessly brutal, but they're bigger idiots than Autumn ever was. Augustus Autumn at least realized his Enclave government will need the support of wastelanders to survive, so he wants to seize a local water supply and use that as a bargaining chip. That, and Eden's plan to kill the mutated wastelanders is something born out of desperation: both his Enclave and the Brotherhood can't stop the city's mutant infestation, so instead of fighting it block-by-block like the Brotherhood does, he instead opted to start with a clean slate. Sure, it will kill some innocents, but it will clear the way for the pure humans of the Enclave to take the city with minimal resistance.

Actually that gives me something to think about. Eden would have been built by the original Enclave while Colonel Autumn was a descendent of them. In fact Colonel Autumn would have been from the military side of the Enclave, possibly descending from US military personnel. Richardson would have been many generations down from the original Enclave but acts just as genocidal as the original. Perhaps there is a schism in the Enclave both generational and between the military and political class. The military, being the descendants of veterans who bought into nationalistic propaganda and fought for the American people, would have wanted to protect them. Something like a benevolent dictatorship. While the politicians were selfish and viewed the rest of humanity as inferiors to be used in experiments.
I suppose that's what sets apart the Enclave commoners from the political elite. The top brass see people as expendable buffoons to be used for science experiments, while the common soldier just wants to bring order. FO2 was strict in its idea of the Enclave as a genocidal government body, but FO3 and New Vegas established that the Enclave just wanted to bring back some semblance of order and didn't think the wastelanders can do it on their own. It seems that FO2's events killed off the Enclave's political elite, leaving only the military class that wanted order and peace, which is why the FO3 Enclave is a more nuanced adversary than the FO2 Enclave, and the New Vegas Enclave is downright pitiable and sympathetic at the same time.

To be fair about House's elite arrogance, he's, possibly moreso than anyone else in Fallout, earned it. If I shot down the majority of the nukes headed for an entire region after calculating events to within a day's margin of error, I'd be pretty arrogant about it too.

He definitely has some flaws, unaware of the darker side of the White Gloves for one, and the Omertas for another. I suppose with the Omertas he had them play into his nostalgia for the mob with the reasoning that it was better to consolidate a black market that was always going to happen into one major player. Still doesn't work out well without the Courier's help. To be honest, the thing about him that pissed me off the most was destroying the Kings if you broker peace between them and NCR.

Otherwise, though, he doesn't like to stray from his plans but he will absolutely do so if it's merited. Picking Courier Six as his new agent, the factions you can convince him to leave alone, etc. Hell, the Brotherhood he ends up being right on refusing to compromise about.

Yeah, he's apathetic to the plight of everywhere that isn't his personal fiefdom, but he's pretty open and honest about that, you can still help those places as well, and I find it sort of amusing that the best Wild Card endings (in my personal opinion) are mostly the things he wanted done with/to factions anyway.

So, like every faction. He's got his bad, got his good. I'd say he's the best option.
I'm pretty sure if I averted apocalypse and revived my own slice of America after the bombs dropped, I'd be arrogant as fuck, too.

I attribute his inability to gauge the Courier and the White Gloves/Omertas to the fact that he always looks at the bigger picture more so than the little guy. When it comes to small details like the loyalty of some tribes or the loyalty of a Courier, he's not able to read things accurately, assuming they will simply serve because they signed something or agreed to serve. But when it comes to dealing with the Legion and the NCR, he's practically playing both for fools.

As for the Kings, on a House playthrough, I always turn them against the NCR, while in a Yes Man/NCR playthrough, I get them to always make peace with the NCR.

The Brotherhood is not a stable faction. It's too powerful to be ignored, but too erratic to be trusted. The NCR found that out the hard way when the West Coast Brotherhood went from ally to enemy and declared war on them for daring to try and use Enclave tech, whereas the East Coast Brotherhood went from a local security force to a bunch of zealots going on a fatwa against all synths.

House is, at least, a known quality you can deal with honestly. He's a dictator you can do business with. He's not as inept as the NCR, not as brutal as Caesar's Legion, not as erratic as the Brotherhood of Steel, he's someone whose agenda is well-known and can be dealt with accordingly, on cordial terms. So long as you don't fuck with him, he doesn't fuck with you, and loyal service is always rewarded.

All the Mojave Factions are screwed one way or another, House is just the least screwed out of all of them.
 
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The NCR is not inept. House knows full well they could push into and take over New Vegas eventually. It's really the Courier that stops that in its tracks. In fact, there was going to be an ending/route where Mr House would ask for NCR citizenship, amnesty and the Strip as his private property in exchange for NCR taking over the rest of New Vegas. It's thus pretty funny that the same exact observation he makes of the Brotherhood (high tech is no match for numbers) applies just as much to him vs the NCR.
 
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The NCR is not inept. House knows full well they could push into and take over New Vegas eventually. It's really the Courier that stops that in its tracks. In fact, there was going to be an ending/route where Mr House would ask for NCR citizenship, amnesty and the Strip as his private property in exchange for NCR taking over the rest of New Vegas. It's thus pretty funny that the same exact observation he makes of the Brotherhood (high tech is no match for numbers) applies just as much to him vs the NCR.
Then how come the NCR skedaddles away the moment the Securitron army comes online? Also, do you have proof of that alternate ending?
 
Then how come the NCR skedaddles away the moment the Securitron army comes online? Also, do you have proof of that alternate ending?
Well they just fought a war against the Legion, they don’t have time or manpower to fight an enemy like that.

However, the NCR has the advantage over House. The NCR can produce more soldiers while House can’t. The NCR has a numerical advantage if they have to fight a war of attrition. They could blockade New Vegas, prevent trade from passing through the Long 15, and stop NCR citizens from traveling to New Vegas. House’s economy would starve and he would be forced to accept concessions.

Now, this all relies on a political willingness to prioritize controlling New Vegas over everything else. Post Second Battle of Hoover Dam, it would be unlikely that the NCR citizens would want to continue the war effort. The only expansion efforts that could happen would be around New Vegas, former Legion territory, or northward to Washington.

If the NCR does not collapse, House will be fucked in the long term. Don’t forget the Tunnelers that will emerge from the Divide. That will cripple House’s army, and that is assuming he stops them. Once he runs out of Securitrons, even the Fiends could overrun Vegas.

I could see him joining the NCR as a special territory, like Macau is with China (funny side note, Macau is called the Las Vegas of Asia).
 
Well they just fought a war against the Legion, they don’t have time or manpower to fight an enemy like that.

However, the NCR has the advantage over House. The NCR can produce more soldiers while House can’t. The NCR has a numerical advantage if they have to fight a war of attrition. They could blockade New Vegas, prevent trade from passing through the Long 15, and stop NCR citizens from traveling to New Vegas. House’s economy would starve and he would be forced to accept concessions.

Now, this all relies on a political willingness to prioritize controlling New Vegas over everything else. Post Second Battle of Hoover Dam, it would be unlikely that the NCR citizens would want to continue the war effort. The only expansion efforts that could happen would be around New Vegas, former Legion territory, or northward to Washington.

If the NCR does not collapse, House will be fucked in the long term. Don’t forget the Tunnelers that will emerge from the Divide. That will cripple House’s army, and that is assuming he stops them. Once he runs out of Securitrons, even the Fiends could overrun Vegas.

I could see him joining the NCR as a special territory, like Macau is with China (funny side note, Macau is called the Las Vegas of Asia).
Except the NCR has practically exhausted its supply of soldiers trying to hold the Mojave. Not to mention that as a democracy, they can't just force war on the people all the time. People have already sour opinions on the war in the Mojave due to them losing a thousand soldiers a year there, not to mention the fact that Chief Hanlon even indicates that local representatives are getting iffy about supporting the war. If the NCR gets driven from the Mojave, but NCR citizens themselves are still welcome in New Vegas, the people won't support another war. 1) the Securitrons take over patrolling the Mojave, which saves the NCR massive amounts of time, money, and lives, and 2) House still welcomes NCR citizens into New Vegas, so they can still enjoy the nightlife or find a paying job there, without having to spend God knows how much money and blood occupying the area.

Also, blockading New Vegas means that New Vegas will cut off power from Hoover Dam, which would cause NCR citizens to panic and overthrow whatever administration wants to continue the war with New Vegas. The fact that House is willing to supply power and cheap, clean water to the NCR, coupled with the NCR's devastating losses in the Mojave and the fact that House is practically just doing the same shit the NCR is doing in the Mojave (protect NCR citizens who come to New Vegas) means that A) the people of the NCR won't be up for another war, since House already gives them enough of what they want, and B) they just got done fighting one costly war, they won't be fighting another.

The tunnelers would get blasted to bits with gattling lasers and rockets. If the Courier could crush his/her way through them, so can an army of Securitrons armed with missiles and gattling lasers And right after defeating the Legion, House exterminates the Fiends. And of course, the people in the Mojave, which includes NCR immigrants, can be put to work making more Securitrons, since House is going to revive the tech sectors. So yes, they can build more Securitrons faster than the NCR can grow new soldiers. At most, the former takes months, the latter takes years, and only NCR power-armored soldiers can match Securitrons in firepower. And last I checked, the NCR isn't manufacturing power armor, they're just salvaging suits from their last war with the Brotherhood.

No, I can see House remaining independent in the long term. As the NCR flounders, they might even ask him to lead them. Then he'd finally join the NCR-only so he can lead it.
 
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Except the NCR has practically exhausted its supply of soldiers trying to hold the Mojave. Not to mention that as a democracy, they can't just force war on the people all the time. People have already sour opinions on the war in the Mojave due to them losing a thousand soldiers a year there, not to mention the fact that Chief Hanlon even indicates that local representatives are getting iffy about supporting the war. If the NCR gets driven from the Mojave, but NCR citizens themselves are still welcome in New Vegas, the people won't support another war. 1) the Securitrons take over patrolling the Mojave, which saves the NCR massive amounts of time, money, and lives, and 2) House still welcomes NCR citizens into New Vegas, so they can still enjoy the nightlife or find a paying job there, without having to spend God knows how much money and blood occupying the area.

Also, blockading New Vegas means that New Vegas will cut off power from Hoover Dam, which would cause NCR citizens to panic and overthrow whatever administration wants to continue the war with New Vegas. The fact that House is willing to supply power and cheap, clean water to the NCR, coupled with the NCR's devastating losses in the Mojave and the fact that House is practically just doing the same shit the NCR is doing in the Mojave (protect NCR citizens who come to New Vegas) means that A) the people of the NCR won't be up for another war, since House already gives them enough of what they want, and B) they just got done fighting one costly war, they won't be fighting another.

The tunnelers would get blasted to bits with gattling lasers and rockets. If the Courier could crush his/her way through them, so can an army of Securitrons armed with missiles and gattling lasers And right after defeating the Legion, House exterminates the Fiends. And of course, the people in the Mojave, which includes NCR immigrants, can be put to work making more Securitrons, since House is going to revive the tech sectors. So yes, they can build more Securitrons faster than the NCR can grow new soldiers. At most, the former takes months, the latter takes years, and only NCR power-armored soldiers can match Securitrons in firepower. And last I checked, the NCR isn't manufacturing power armor, they're just salvaging suits from their last war with the Brotherhood.

No, I can see House remaining independent in the long term. As the NCR flounders, they might even ask him to lead them. Then he'd finally join the NCR-only so he can lead it.
I could see embittered members of the NCR's intelligence and military launching covert operations to fuck with House. Maybe they would hire mercenaries or exiled Kings (if they allied with the NCR) or even Omertas to attack House's manufacturing operations. Though now I am imagining the NCR viewing House as the U.S. viewed Castro. They would probably engineer an assassination attempt by putting a bomb in a snow globe!
 
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I'm genuinely surprised you didn't know about this. It seemed decently close to being implemented before being cut.

It was still cut out from the final product, though. Which means it's about as canon as the Legion and the Brotherhood joining forces. It ain't canon at all.

I could see embittered members of the NCR's intelligence and military launching covert operations to fuck with House. Maybe they would hire mercenaries or exiled Kings (if they allied with the NCR) or even Omertas to attack House's manufacturing operations. Though now I am imagining the NCR viewing House as the U.S. viewed Castro. They would probably engineer an assassination attempt by putting a bomb in a snow globe!


The only folks with the skills to pull that off would be the NCR Rangers, and by the end of the Second Battle for Hoover Dam, their numbers have been exhausted, and Chief Hanlon, their leader, has gone on record opposing Kimball's path to expansionism.
 
The thing about the NCR is that they're only worn down and overstretched in the Mojave because of the Legion. As soon as they no longer need to keep desperately throwing fresh meat into the grinder to hold onto Hoover, they can and almost certainly will stand down their conscripts and transition to a much more regular, professional force. Moore only wants the toughest, nastiest soldiers she can find, and I doubt Oliver is going to overrule her and keep a bunch of crappy half-trained, poorly-equipped conscripts around since she gets the results he wants, never mind the conscription becoming politically untenable once the Dam is secure, and Oliver is very political. Everyone talks about all the caps that are getting poured into the bottomless pit, and even if the Courier does the bare minimum for the NCR questline, the Khans and BoS are no longer threats one way or the other, and without Khan chems the Fiends are finished, especially since they launch a head-on assault on McCarran, which is bloody for the NCR but even worse for the Fiends. The Vipers and Jackals are non-entities, leaving the Powder Gangers as the only real threat, which admittedly they do end up being, since they have the vault and enough chemical precursors under it to get by for a long, long time. With the casinos being brought under NCR ownership thanks to House being killed, the caps flow right to the government in the form of tax revenue, along with water and power from Hoover.
 
The thing about the NCR is that they're only worn down and overstretched in the Mojave because of the Legion. As soon as they no longer need to keep desperately throwing fresh meat into the grinder to hold onto Hoover, they can and almost certainly will stand down their conscripts and transition to a much more regular, professional force. Moore only wants the toughest, nastiest soldiers she can find, and I doubt Oliver is going to overrule her and keep a bunch of crappy half-trained, poorly-equipped conscripts around since she gets the results he wants, never mind the conscription becoming politically untenable once the Dam is secure, and Oliver is very political. Everyone talks about all the caps that are getting poured into the bottomless pit, and even if the Courier does the bare minimum for the NCR questline, the Khans and BoS are no longer threats one way or the other, and without Khan chems the Fiends are finished, especially since they launch a head-on assault on McCarran, which is bloody for the NCR but even worse for the Fiends. The Vipers and Jackals are non-entities, leaving the Powder Gangers as the only real threat, which admittedly they do end up being, since they have the vault and enough chemical precursors under it to get by for a long, long time. With the casinos being brought under NCR ownership thanks to House being killed, the caps flow right to the government in the form of tax revenue, along with water and power from Hoover.
Except again, the NCR is practically tired as fuck after five years of holding the Mojave. In fact, the main thing that's been killing NCR troops IS holding the Mojave. The Brotherhood, the Khans, the Powder Gangers, the Fiends, and every two-bit thug with an automatic rifle, or monsters like cazadores and Deathclaws have been killing NCR soldiers. The Legion has only taken small bites here and there That, and the NCR still needs to hang on to Hoover Dam because all the power and water comes from that place. If they don't hold it, the Brotherhood can move right in and hold it against the NCR, and with how defensible the structure is, the Paladins would be able to hold it against larger NCR forces, while the other gangs continue to harass NCR troops after they're exhausted fighting the Legion. The NCR in the Mojave would get screwed real hard.

In fact, a pro-Brotherhood Courier can call the Brotherhood in as reinforcements against the NCR after Lanius is dead or dispelled:

Courier: "Then maybe the Brotherhood would have more incentive."
Lee Oliver: "The Brotherhood? Last thing we fucking need now."
Courier: "Once I radio the Brotherhood, they can handle the fighting elsewhere."
Lee Oliver: "The Brotherhood? On the attack? I think we would have heard something from them by now."
Courier: "Exactly - and while you've been occupied here, they're ready."
Lee Oliver: "First the Legion, then the Brotherhood hitting us is about the last thing the Republic needs right now."

And as for military reform, the NCR would have done it during the fight against the Legion beforehand if they were capable. If the Legion wasn't enough incentive to reform the army into a professional force, then nothing will be. In fact, they'd probably be even more lax with the military after the Legion goes down. The NCR has been exhausted, militarily and economically, by the war. That, and they won the previous battle for Hoover Dam, and it made things worse, not better, after they defeated Joshua Graham. What makes you think a second victory would change things? Not unless the Courier bent every faction into the Mojave into an ally of the NCR or wiped them out, root and stem, a second NCR victory would just mean that they'll occupy the Mojave, and the local factions, with some "support" from Legion remnants itching for vengeance, would keep bleeding troops and supplies from the NCR until holding the Mojave ends up forcing the NCR to collapse. Even without the Legion, Chief Hanlon sees holding the Mojave as a suicide mission:

Chief Hanlon: "People back home don't listen. They don't care. Senators, Brahmin barons, folks who are just trying to make it from day to day. It's been so many years that people forget about it. Conscription brings in fresh troops to die here every month. Like it's routine. And even if we hold this dam, what then? Are we going to send the NCR's men and women to die here for another five years? Ten? Patrol the whole length of the Colorado for hundreds of miles? Holding this dam. It'll be the death of us."

A real NCR patriot would probably help House or Yes Man take over the Mojave so that New Vegas would be straddled with the responsibility to patrol the Mojave. Not only are Securitrons far superior fighters than NCR soldiers, but New Vegas patrolling the Mojave means the NCR won't have to waste money and lives patrolling the Mojave. Which means that while NCR citizens can enjoy New Vegas's sights and sounds, they won't have to pay a dime for the occupation of the Mojave or lose family and friends patrolling it. Which would be the best-case scenario for the NCR. Securitrons eradicate all threats with artillery and gatling lasers, while the NCR keeps its money and the lives of its soldiers.
 
You forget that this is the Second Battle for Hoover Dam, and the first was just as bad as the second for the NCR, and was far from a decisive victory over the Legion since its men routed and were not pursued past the Dam, and Decimation and the bulk of the blame landing on Graham left a great deal of manpower intact. Not enough to go another round with the NCR, but enough to go conquer more tribes and assimilate them to replenish the Legion's numbers. Since then the NCR has been doing its best to clean up the Mojave, and they did a surprisingly capable job of it until the Legion came back. They've been waging on-and-off fighting for the NCR for a while, not sure how long to be honest, and while the Legion themselves has been dealing small cuts, you've got the spy at McCarron making sure patrols get ambushed, Searchlight got wiped out, letting the Legion send out parties from Cottonwood forcing the NCR to bleed itself to keep them away, which if you have Boone with you during Booted he remarks on how the NCR is getting worn down and sloppy because of that. The Legion has sent an envoy to the Khans to make sure they stay around and force the NCR to devote troops that way, and they also supply the Fiends with the chems they use to be such a threat.

Again, like I said, even if the player does the bare minimum to help the NCR out during the main quest, that's still the Boomers who are out of the picture and can be ignored, the Great Khans are no longer a threat the NCR needs to devote manpower to keeping an eye on and the Fiends die out thanks to losing their chems, the BoS is gone and that frees up the necessary heavy troopers to hold the dam, and the Strip and Freeside have both been pacified and put under uncontested NCR control one way or another, and that's all without the Legion itself being sent packing back to Arizona.

Hanlon isn't wrong to think the way he does, far from it, and to be fair he isn't wrong about the costs of holding it, both now and in the future, but without House, without the Khans, without the BoS, without the Boomers, what true threat is there to the NCR this side of the Colorado? Jacobstown? Marcus admits that's a fight that can't be won and would most likely do his best to walk away and move on, leaving the Keene and his Nightkin to their inevitable fate. Black Mountain? Bloody but winnable. Vipers? Jackals? Petty raiders even during the game itself. The only true threat is, as the ending itself says, the Powder Gangers. The NCR can stand down, and must stand down, because even if they have the conscripts to send in, they cannot afford the financial costs of it. Massive garrisons are expensive, since a conscript doesn't eat a whole lot less than an elite soldier, nor does he need less of a roof over his head, nor does he need less ammo, and every soldier you send to the Army is one who isn't paying taxes and being productive.

And he's damned right the NCR will end troops there for as long as it has to, because Hoover dam is just that fucking valuable. There's no large reservoirs or other bodies of water in NCR territory, and a lack of water kills civilization deader than anything else, and electrical power is as valuable in the post-apocalypse as clean food since its how you get industry up and running. And I'm not talking just weapons and ammo. The NCR's rebuilding infrastructure, cities (as much as we hate them they serve a very useful purpose when not allowed to become shitholes), and hell, even farming equipment comes out of factories, and I don't mean John Deere tractors nobody can keep fueled, but brahmin-powered equipment.
 
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You forget that this is the Second Battle for Hoover Dam, and the first was just as bad as the second for the NCR, and was far from a decisive victory over the Legion since its men routed and were not pursued past the Dam, and Decimation and the bulk of the blame landing on Graham left a great deal of manpower intact. Not enough to go another round with the NCR, but enough to go conquer more tribes and assimilate them to replenish the Legion's numbers. Since then the NCR has been doing its best to clean up the Mojave, and they did a surprisingly capable job of it until the Legion came back. They've been waging on-and-off fighting for the NCR for a while, not sure how long to be honest, and while the Legion themselves has been dealing small cuts, you've got the spy at McCarron making sure patrols get ambushed, Searchlight got wiped out, letting the Legion send out parties from Cottonwood forcing the NCR to bleed itself to keep them away, which if you have Boone with you during Booted he remarks on how the NCR is getting worn down and sloppy because of that. The Legion has sent an envoy to the Khans to make sure they stay around and force the NCR to devote troops that way, and they also supply the Fiends with the chems they use to be such a threat.

Again, like I said, even if the player does the bare minimum to help the NCR out during the main quest, that's still the Boomers who are out of the picture and can be ignored, the Great Khans are no longer a threat the NCR needs to devote manpower to keeping an eye on and the Fiends die out thanks to losing their chems, the BoS is gone and that frees up the necessary heavy troopers to hold the dam, and the Strip and Freeside have both been pacified and put under uncontested NCR control one way or another, and that's all without the Legion itself being sent packing back to Arizona.

Hanlon isn't wrong to think the way he does, far from it, and to be fair he isn't wrong about the costs of holding it, both now and in the future, but without House, without the Khans, without the BoS, without the Boomers, what true threat is there to the NCR this side of the Colorado? Jacobstown? Marcus admits that's a fight that can't be won and would most likely do his best to walk away and move on, leaving the Keene and his Nightkin to their inevitable fate. Black Mountain? Bloody but winnable. Vipers? Jackals? Petty raiders even during the game itself. The only true threat is, as the ending itself says, the Powder Gangers. The NCR can stand down, and must stand down, because even if they have the conscripts to send in, they cannot afford the financial costs of it. Massive garrisons are expensive, since a conscript doesn't eat a whole lot less than an elite soldier, nor does he need less of a roof over his head, nor does he need less ammo, and every soldier you send to the Army is one who isn't paying taxes and being productive.

And he's damned right the NCR will end troops there for as long as it has to, because Hoover dam is just that fucking valuable. There's no large reservoirs or other bodies of water in NCR territory, and a lack of water kills civilization deader than anything else, and electrical power is as valuable in the post-apocalypse as clean food since its how you get industry up and running. And I'm not talking just weapons and ammo. The NCR's rebuilding infrastructure, cities (as much as we hate them they serve a very useful purpose when not allowed to become shitholes), and hell, even farming equipment comes out of factories, and I don't mean John Deere tractors nobody can keep fueled, but brahmin-powered equipment.
The New California Republic did a surprisingly SLOPPY job of cleaning up after Joshua Graham's defeat. In fact, in the 5 years ever since the Mormon Legate got his ass burned by his former ally, NCR troops have been constantly picked off by local gangs like the Fiends, the Powder Gangers, the Jackals, the Khans, and all sorts of local sideshows, before the Legion came back and started sacking settlements in the eastern Mojave. The NCR was unable to respond because they were already getting screwed by local threats in the Mojave. If they weren't, they'd have quickly retaken Nelson and burned Cottonwood Cove to the ground, not to mention they wouldn't have any problems retaking Primm and Boulder City. Instead, what we see is a sorry sight: Primm is overrun by criminals, Boulder City has Khans holding NCR soldiers hostage, and the Legion established a presence in Nelson, within spitting distance of NCR forces in Camp Forlorn Hope.

Not to mention that their war with the Legion would exhaust NCR forces since defending the Dam ain't a cakewalk, not when Legion elite shocktroops are the ones pushing in, while Legion forces attack other places in the Mojave. If we have a Courier who just did the bare minimum work, without trying to shore up NCR defenses by destroying Legion strongholds or recruiting the Brotherhood and the Enclave to help the NCR, you can bet that even with the Courier winning the battle, the NCR would have suffered extreme casualties fighting off Caesar's best before one angry mailman/mailwoman blows off Lanius' head or convinces him to retreat. At that point, the NCR forces in the Mojave would be extremely weakened, and even if they hold onto the dam, that would only cause more unrest back home as they will then have to spend MORE MONEY AND TROOPS to the Mojave-which would work, IF the NCR were a monarchy where one authority figure can just do that shit without people complaining.

Problem is, the NCR is a democracy. And people were already getting tired as fuck when it comes to the Mojave campaign. NCR citizens see the Mojave, and they see a pit where their money and blood get sucked in. They see their tax dollars go away to be spent as upkeep for the costly occupation of the Mojave. They see their friends, families, and loved ones get killed in the Mojave by all sorts of threats. And even if they win, they will have to spend MORE MONEY and send MORE SOLDIERS into that shithole? That would destroy any goodwill that the Kimball administration has left, and would more than likely lead to Aaron Kimball getting his ass thrown out of office. Kimball was already losing support due to his inability to annex the Mojave and the large number of casualties from the Mojave campaign. If he has to send more guys and spend more cash to maintain the Mojave occupation, his ass would get thrown out of office for good, and the next guy in charge would probably have the same mindset as Chief Hanlon would and would withdraw from the Mojave.

Unless they can get local support from factions like say, the Boomers and the Brotherhood, or unless New Vegas shoulders the burden of protecting and patrolling the Mojave like in the Yes Man or House endings, then the NCR would collapse due to the financial strain and manpower deficits that the Mojave campaign causes. Especially since back home, the NCR still has enemies. Raiders and bandits still plague the land, while the Brotherhood is still scheming for revenge back in California. Moving more troops from the west to the Mojave would make Shady Sands and other NCR settlements in California vulnerable to Brotherhood/raider attacks, which would put more strain on the NCR in California. That, and the Legion's designs on the Mojave won't end with the Second Battle for Hoover Dam. Unless the Courier went the extra mile and killed both Caesar and Lanius, as well as Vulpes Inculta, the Legion can just keep sending Frumentarii and incognito troops to rally local thugs like the Fiends and the Powder Gangers to conduct hit and run attacks on NCR forces for devastating effect. Whatever is left of the Mojave Brotherhood and the Khans would likely join in as well, lending their skills to any who call themselves enemies of the NCR. The Bear would get mauled back in California AND the in the Mojave. The NCR would slowly, but surely, collapse. That is, if a lack of popular support didn't already destroy the Kimball administration's legitimacy in the eyes of the NCR public.

The NCR under Tandi was able to live without Hoover Dam, and many were already sour on the Mojave occupation before the Courier got mixed up in things. So no, Hoover Dam is but a place. A Legion Courier can even convince Oliver to abandon it, same goes for a House/Yes Man Courier, although the latter provides some concessions to the NCR to sweeten the deal. So no, while the top brass see the value of Hoover Dam as a place they need to occupy, the average man in the NCR, seeing its money and blood get sucked into the shithole that is the Mojave, will not support the campaign and will more than likely vote against the continued occupation of the Mojave. Unless you have a very thorough NCR Courier who massacres all possible threats, destroys all of the Legion's leadership to make it collapse, and enlists the Brotherhood to help patrol the roads, as well as the Enclave and the Boomers to help win the big fight at Hoover Dam, then the NCR's continued occupation of the Mojave will eventually cause the Republic itself to collapse in both the Mojave and in the California heartlands. Or at the very least, it would weaken the Kimball administration severely, enough to cause a change in who's in charge, and the new NCR rulers will pull back from the Mojave and consolidate power back home first (which probably means they'll have to wipe out the California BoS) before going back to the Mojave.

Which again, is why a real NCR patriot would go for the House/Yes Man endings instead. New Vegas pays the price for policing the Mojave, NCR soldiers can go home, NCR citizens won't have to pay any taxes, and they still get cheap water and power from Hoover Dam, as well as the experience of New Vegas' delights and financial opportunities. It's the fairest deal the NCR can get, and with them not paying a dime to secure the Mojave, they'll be able to focus their forces on something else more productive, like protecting trade caravans back home and eradicating domestic threats like the California BoS or local raiders back out west.
 
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The New California Republic did a surprisingly SLOPPY job of cleaning up after Joshua Graham's defeat. In fact, in the 5 years ever since the Mormon Legate got his ass burned by his former ally, NCR troops have been constantly picked off by local gangs like the Fiends, the Powder Gangers, the Jackals, the Khans, and all sorts of local sideshows, before the Legion came back and started sacking settlements in the eastern Mojave. The NCR was unable to respond because they were already getting screwed by local threats in the Mojave. If they weren't, they'd have quickly retaken Nelson and burned Cottonwood Cove to the ground, not to mention they wouldn't have any problems retaking Primm and Boulder City. Instead, what we see is a sorry sight: Primm is overrun by criminals, Boulder City has Khans holding NCR soldiers hostage, and the Legion established a presence in Nelson, within spitting distance of NCR forces in Camp Forlorn Hope.

Not to mention that their war with the Legion would exhaust NCR forces since defending the Dam ain't a cakewalk, not when Legion elite shocktroops are the ones pushing in, while Legion forces attack other places in the Mojave. If we have a Courier who just did the bare minimum work, without trying to shore up NCR defenses by destroying Legion strongholds or recruiting the Brotherhood and the Enclave to help the NCR, you can bet that even with the Courier winning the battle, the NCR would have suffered extreme casualties fighting off Caesar's best before one angry mailman/mailwoman blows off Lanius' head or convinces him to retreat. At that point, the NCR forces in the Mojave would be extremely weakened, and even if they hold onto the dam, that would only cause more unrest back home as they will then have to spend MORE MONEY AND TROOPS to the Mojave-which would work, IF the NCR were a monarchy where one authority figure can just do that shit without people complaining.

Problem is, the NCR is a democracy. And people were already getting tired as fuck when it comes to the Mojave campaign. NCR citizens see the Mojave, and they see a pit where their money and blood get sucked in. They see their tax dollars go away to be spent as upkeep for the costly occupation of the Mojave. They see their friends, families, and loved ones get killed in the Mojave by all sorts of threats. And even if they win, they will have to spend MORE MONEY and send MORE SOLDIERS into that shithole? That would destroy any goodwill that the Kimball administration has left, and would more than likely lead to Kimball getting his ass thrown out of office. Kimball was already losing support due to his inability to annex the Mojave and the large number of casualties from the Mojave campaign. If he has to send more guys and spend more cash to maintain the Mojave occupation, his ass would get thrown out of office for good, and the next guy in charge would probably have the same mindset as Chief Hanlon would and would withdraw from the Mojave.

Unless they can get local support from factions like say, the Boomers and the Brotherhood, or unless New Vegas shoulders the burden of protecting and patrolling the Mojave like in the Yes Man or House endings, then the NCR would collapse due to the financial strain and manpower deficits that the Mojave campaign causes. Especially since back home, the NCR still has enemies. Raiders and bandits still plague the land, while the Brotherhood is still scheming for revenge back in California. Moving more troops from the west to the Mojave would make Shady Sands and other NCR settlements in California vulnerable to Brotherhood/raider attacks, which would put more strain on the NCR in California. That, and the Legion's designs on the Mojave won't end with the Second Battle for Hoover Dam. Unless the Courier went the extra mile and killed both Caesar and Lanius, as well as Vulpes Inculta, the Legion can just keep sending Frumentarii and incognito troops to rally local thugs like the Fiends and the Powder Gangers to conduct hit and run attacks on NCR forces for devastating effect. Whatever is left of the Mojave Brotherhood and the Khans would likely join in as well, lending their skills to any who call themselves enemies of the NCR. The Bear would get mauled back in California AND the Mojave, and it would slowly but surely collapse, if a lack of popular support didn't already destroy the administration's legitimacy in the eyes of the NCR public.

The NCR under Tandi was able to live without Hoover Dam, and many were already sour on the Mojave occupation before the Courier got mixed up in things. So no, Hoover Dam is but a place. A Legion Courier can even convince Oliver to abandon it, same goes for a House/Yes Man Courier, although the latter provides some concessions to the NCR to sweeten the deal. So no, while the top brass see the value of Hoover Dam as a place they need to occupy, the average man in the NCR, seeing its money and blood get sucked into the shithole that is the Mojave, will not support the campaign and will more than likely vote against the continued occupation of the Mojave. Unless you have a very thorough NCR Courier who massacres all possible threats, destroys all of the Legion's leadership to make it collapse, and enlists the Brotherhood to help patrol the roads, as well as the Enclave and the Boomers to help win the big fight at Hoover Dam, then the NCR's continued occupation of the Mojave will eventually cause the Republic itself to collapse in both the Mojave and in the California heartlands. Or at the very least, it would weaken the Kimball administration severely, enough to cause a change in who's in charge, and the new NCR rulers will pull back from the Mojave and consolidate power back home first (which probably means they'll have to wipe out the California BoS) before going back to the Mojave.

Which again, is why a real NCR patriot would go for the House/Yes Man endings instead. New Vegas pays the price for policing the Mojave, NCR soldiers can go home, NCR citizens won't have to pay any taxes, and they still get cheap water and power from Hoover Dam, as well as the experience of New Vegas' delights and financial opportunities. It's the fairest deal the NCR can get, and with them not paying a dime to secure the Mojave, they'll be able to focus their forces on something else more productive, like protecting trade caravans back home and eradicating domestic threats like the California BoS or local raiders back out west.
I think wait and see Oliver is mostly to blame for the situation stagnating as much as it did post first battle for the dam. It was clear after the first battle that there would be a second. Oliver wanted a massive concentration at the dam at all times. You talk to people like Ranger Jackson or Lt. Hayes and they tell you the problems they are dealing with could be solved with just a few extra bodies or rifles. Jackson also tells you all the soldiers passing through the Mojave outpost are sent straight to the dam or to McCarran before heading to the dam. Just about every NCR officer you talk to will tell you some version of how undermanned they are but we know the NCR is constantly trickling men into the Mojave. Oliver's strategy is what's killing the NCR in New Vegas. He hoards all the manpower he gets and has one hand wrapped around Hanlon and rangers to keep them from embarrassing him again. Left to his own devices he'll kill the NCR army as he stares down the Legion and ignores all the minor players taking bites out of his back. The Legion only stares back and laughs letting the NCR kill themselves and poke them when they can. The NCR winning the battle when it comes is less likely the longer the wait is.

However should all the chips fall into place and the battle results for a victory for the NCR I think a turnaround will be in order. That massive build up at the dam will no longer be required and the lion's share of troopers coming into the Mojave will be sent to the outposts in greater need. People like Jackson and Hayes will get that extra squad and rifles they've been praying for. The rangers will finally be no longer bound by Oliver's insecurities and free to start pacifying the frontier in earnest. All the tough hombres from Baja that were manning posts in places like Forlorn Hope are free to start spiting napalm at the threats around them. Oliver himself will be out from command to focus on his political ambitions and Colonel "kill them all" Moore will be in charge and won't be as willing to overlook threats like convict gangs shooting up whatever they please.

The Legion itself will be in a tenuous position. Caesar is on a limited time limit and Lanius either died in combat or was talked down and forced to return in failure to Caesar. Unless Caesar is playing favorites he'll make an example of him as he did the last time a legate failed him. I don't think Caesar will be around long enough especially with all the stresses this defeat will bring him to rebuild his losses, subjugate more tribes to get stronger, and come back for round 3. I don't know if Vulpes and Lucius will be characters capable of ultimately of rebuilding, strengthening and leading the Legion to continued glory. I'm also of the belief that the NCR victory in the second battle was more complete then the first time given the way the battle happens.

Most of the factions that were working for the Legion or just opposed to the NCR do make their final plays in the battle. If the NCR isn't routed at the dam they tend to hold off the threats like the fiends and cripple them in the process. Most of the groups picking on the NCR are only doing it because they feel confident they can get away with it because the Legion is camped right there drawing away their attention away from themselves. I don't think most of the minor players like the Khans or Kings won't feel like starting shit when they have a company or even a possible battalion looking right at them.

I don't think the pacification of the Mojave will be quick and decisive with the NCR depleted from the battle as they were but I do think the victory that is powerful enough to keep Kimball and possibly get Oliver into office will also be enough to keep public opinion on the Mojave annexation placated long enough for it to actually happen. It was a severe case of tunnel vision that led to the stagnation and decay of the NCR in the Mojave with the first battle of the dam being the entrance and the second battle its exit. Once the NCR is free to look around and see everything else shit will get done.

Now whether or not you want to discuss if it was a fluke that the NCR wins at I'm willing to believe it is and ultimately it will set a dangerous precedent by justifying Kimball and Oliver's actions and possibly do more harm to the NCR then the prosperity of having Vegas will do good for them in the long run.
 
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