Feminism discussion thread

[Freya]

The man-hate thread is getting full of nuanced discussion about sex issues. It is for hating men. So this can be a general thread for those things that are outside man-hate. also, has anyone noticed there's less YASS QUEEN type stuff being pushed in the media now. It feels like boss babe feminism was a weird 2014 millennial fever dream.

discuss

 

[dvnc]

No, it's still being pushed in the media. Just towards trannies.

 

[Freya]

No, it's still being pushed in the media. Just towards trannies.

this is possible. i just find it interesting most other libfem aspects i dont see as much anymore.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Why should it be "feminism"? Why not "equality" instead?

(Not "equity" as that BS is really "social justice" BS.)

 

[dvnc]

Societal archetypes ebb and flow based on whatever is the current fad. It's incredibly difficult in this day and age to find someone that holds consistent in their values as the majority of those that are the loudest are just going along with whatever is being spoon-fed to them.

 

[Freya]

Why should it be "feminism"? Why not "equality" instead?

because that's gay

 

[TruffleSpark]

which wave of feminism was the best wave?

 

[Freya]

I wonder if the people whining about feminism not being about equality even care about equality themselves or is it just a convenient weapon

 

[Stan]

Why should it be "feminism"? Why not "equality" instead?

(Not "equity" as that BS is really "social justice" BS.)

Because it would weaken the movement and let bad actors trot out old patriarchal bullshit as “equal”.

 

[murph]

I don't know what "feminism" means. The National Organization for Women can't define "woman" so it seems pretty pointless. I don't even know what they want (neither do they).

 

[Alligator Alcatraz]

Why should it be "feminism"? Why not "equality" instead?

(Not "equity" as that BS is really "social justice" BS.)

The same reason Black Lives Matter but not All Lives Matter. The purpose of the movement is to point to specific issues in society for a group that is treated unfairly. It's like "why do we have Mothers' Day" well the point is to emphasize mothers and appreciate them.

Feminism began because 50% of the human population were alienated in a male-dominated society. Disenfranchised, depersoned, not allowed to vote, not allowed to take any job they wish, not allowed to engage in any hobby they wish, and not even allowed to keep their own names (such as refering to married women as Mrs John Joe). Females are cast aside as nonparticipants by males under the vague notion that females cannot perform any tasks besides home upkeep and rearing children. (It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, as in by doing so I suspect females have been biologically predisposed to actually behave that way after hundreds of years of being told "no you can't" by men)

Females are merely female humans with different skillsets. Males still don't understand the intricacies of female contributions to humanity despite being exposed to females everyday.

 

[Not A Bunny]

Why should it be "feminism"? Why not "equality" instead?

(Not "equity" as that BS is really "social justice" BS.)

It's a cover for wanting female superiority.

Sure, women now have all the rights, but we still have need for feminism, because women's rights are being "eroded" because women no longer have the enshrined entitlement to have sex without consequences.

Then there are the stupid arguments about how men are still hostile in women's spaces and so women need the right of exclusivity. But men are still hostile and are chasing women out of men's spaces. That the pay gap is still a thing (it isn't). That "period poverty" and "the pink tax" are things (despite the fact that both of those are reflective of women's choices - and before anyone gets on my ass about having a period being a choice, no Einstein, women can choose to use washable cloths or cups instead on the very un-feminist "depending upon the kindness of strangers" to be able to cope with their periods).

Feminism doesn't want to deal with anything icky, like the implications of the Duluth model, or male circumcision even though FGM is a thing they hate, or that the educational system is now geared towards girls and treating boys as defective girls.

So they need "equity". Because they have "equality", and it just wasn't enough for them to get to female supremacy.

Females are merely female humans with different skillsets. Males still don't understand the intricacies of female contributions to humanity despite being exposed to females everyday.

I could say the same about women.

Women haven't historically dominated society not because men have oppressed them, but you talk to any random woman nowadays and you might get the impression that this is the case..

The planet has always been dominated by men because evolution caused men to be braver and stronger, and take more risks.

Am I saying that women are not as capable as men or that both men and women should stick to their gender roles? No, I firmly believe to each their own individual talents, but for you to assert that men don't understand women's contributions to humanity is nonsense. It's just that we've arbitrarily assigned men's accomplishments to be more "important" and women's to be "inferior" which is why women are hungry to get their hands on men's accomplishments.

The fact is, feminism focuses on equality by asserting the notion that if a man has what is arbitrarily considered a great thing, a woman must also have that great thing, or else, women are being oppressed.

Except women will never lead an NFL team to the Super Bowl. And it should be perfectly okay that that isn't the case.

 

[Alligator Alcatraz]

View attachment 5413230
which wave of feminism was the best wave?

Second wave feminism.

First wave feminism (late 1800s-early 1900s) merely aimed at womens suffrage (voting and right to own property). It was an important foundation to establish women as participants in human society, but it was not until second wave feminism did women begin to tug at their proverbial shackles.

Second wave feminism (60s) was the introduction of workplace rights, reproductive rights, legal inequalities, domestic abuse of women, social and legal issues with rape, the introduction of womens shelters and womens hospitals, etc. It was the movement that brought about the realization of females having different needs than men.

First and Second wave feminism by extension emphasized the needs of children in society and likewise, brought about childrens hospitals, promoted schools, children's need for playtime, end childhood hunger, etc.

Third wave feminism (90s) iirc was about individualism and sex expression. It encouraged homosexuality who were still in the closet at the time.

Fourth wave feminism is the one everyone hates because of gender equality and promotes the idea women as a marginalized social group. In a way, it retreads second wave feminism and for whatever reason has become coopted by male homosexuals and male-to-female transexuals.

To be honest, I do not consider the LGBT movement to be associated with feminism. While third wave feminism emboldened homosexuals who thought "hey wait, we want to be individuals too", their issues are not relevant to the issues of females and has no place in feminism. Homosexuals and transexuals merely step upon women's successes for their own gains and have set back women's rights as a result. Very often homosexuals and transexuals have a great resentment and hatred of women for achieving the social successes women have achieved and continue to push for.

I'd also like to point out that only first wave feminism ever fought for "equality". "Equity" has never been desired from feminism because women want to be treated as people and equity is patronizing towards those efforts. Equality is some situations is actually harmful for women because you end up with women in dangerous situations that requires the physical statures and muscle capacities of men.

A better idea of female inclusion in society is the identification of female skillsets, such as in detail work and social interactions. Men developed mathematics, women became "computers" to perform complex calculations en masse for scientific pursuits before machines. A man invented the first computer machine, a woman programmed the first compiler for code. Men developed medical technology, women introduced healthcare and nursing for round-the-clock medical attention. This is the healthier and more effective solution of men and women working together for the betterment and advancement of humanity.

 

[Inside your walls]

View attachment 5413230
which wave of feminism was the best wave?

I was about write a lengthy post about 2nd wave being the best, but Crystal Coomer beaten me to it.

Fourth wave feminism is the one everyone hates because of gender equality and promotes the idea women as a marginalized social group. In a way, it retreads second wave feminism and for whatever reason has become coopted by male homosexuals and male-to-female transexuals.

I think fourth wave feminism suffered from the same issue as movements such as #OccupyWallstreet where it hijacked by most insufferable people to distract people from politicians imposing god awful ideas and laws.

Fourth wave feminism could had been focused on helping women in 3rd world countries or countries that are considered advanced but they (women) are still treated as sub-humans (ex. Saudi Arabia), but it got hijacked by grifters such as Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn, after they were done running shit down because people said mean things about them on the Internet, it got completely taken by the "Feminism is for everybody" people.

 

[Stan]

Sure, women now have all the rights

Perhaps in a handful of first-world countries, and perhaps nominally this is true. But in practice, no nation has fully enfranchised women with the same rights and freedoms as men enjoy.

because women no longer have the enshrined entitlement to have sex without consequences.

Why does this bother you? Men have been able to have (relatively) consequence-free sex for ages. You can whine about child support, but absentee fathers are much more common than absentee mothers. If a man doesn’t want to own up to his responsibilities he can just skip town like Ralph did and avoid consequences with little opportunity for redress

no Einstein, women can choose to use washable cloths or cups instead on the very un-feminist "depending upon the kindness of strangers" to be able to cope with their periods).

Cups cost money, and reusable pads can make you sick (bacteria breeding on the pad). Washing the pads requires access to hot water, detergent, and bleach. And the time women spend dealing with dirty cloth pads is time they coul devote to other things.
There’s no easy fix for this. Some women have light periods with minimal pain and some are crippled with heavy bleeding, psych effects, and endometriosis. And supplying bathrooms with menstrual products used to be a thing (a few decades ago) that you could expect a nice restaurant/gym/school to do. My dad was surprised when I told him there weren’t any tampons available in the ladies locker room, he assumed these things would be like soap and toilet paper.

The planet has always been dominated by men because evolution caused men to be braver and stronger, and take more risks.

That’s one of those just-so stories innit. You can’t really prove it or disprove it. If I bring you counter examples you will argue they’re the exception to the rule, and you’d be right, but the rule is imposed by men into women. Since the start of the agricultural age women have been relegated to a similar status as a horse or a cow by men. Men do this because of paternity anxiety; if you let those pesky women out and about, they might get pregnant with a child that isn’t yours (by force or by choice.)

@Null can we impose DMZ on this thread, as it’s a spin off from the man-hate thread? It’s going to get tiresome and derail the discussion of a bunch of moids are bogarting the thread to drop MRA talking points like “muh SSI registration” “muh alimony and child support payments”, or “muh paper abortion”, and baselessly claim that feminists want “female supremacy”

 

[Null]

I am unwilling to aggressively moderate more threads. You guys have to start ignoring people.

 

[Stan]

Fair enough. Thank you

 

[The Cunting Death]

We already had a feminism thread

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/feminist-kiwis-not-a-honeypot.14664/

 

[Wodanaz]

The same reason Black Lives Matter but not All Lives Matter. The purpose of the movement is to point to specific issues in society for a group that is treated unfairly. It's like "why do we have Mothers' Day" well the point is to emphasize mothers and appreciate them.

Feminism began because 50% of the human population were alienated in a male-dominated society. Disenfranchised, depersoned, not allowed to vote, not allowed to take any job they wish, not allowed to engage in any hobby they wish, and not even allowed to keep their own names (such as refering to married women as Mrs John Joe). Females are cast aside as nonparticipants by males under the vague notion that females cannot perform any tasks besides home upkeep and rearing children. (It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, as in by doing so I suspect females have been biologically predisposed to actually behave that way after hundreds of years of being told "no you can't" by men)

Females are merely female humans with different skillsets. Males still don't understand the intricacies of female contributions to humanity despite being exposed to females everyday.

so you're saying women are just as retarded as black people who drink the koolaid? kek.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

The same reason Black Lives Matter but not All Lives Matter.

It's a cover for wanting female superiority.

Holding all men or whites as automatically responsible for any evil committed by a number of men or whites elsewhere in space or time is of commie "collective punishment" mentality SJWs like. While any historic evil should be remembered to avoid repeating it, continually thinking of all of a kind as inherently "marginalized" or "oppressor" -- especially after any oppression has ceased -- is what SJWs do. It promotes conflict and treating people as inherently guilty of something just because of who they are.

(And as for Mother's Day, there's also Father's Day.)