Ferguson Decision

RACE WAR

http://www.ustream.tv/Channel/BassemMasri

 

[Organic Fapcup]

He was a half a football field's length away when the fatal shot was fired.

Doesn't explain the blackpowder residue on his thumb.

Spoiler

Unless he backed away half a football field's length away (45.72m according to Google) that seems a bit unlikely, given that the autopsy report states that residue matching that of blackpowder was found on his right hand (page 13 of the report) which seems to suggest that Michael was at point-blank range with the cop. Also the fact that there's no entry wounds through his back. Unless, of course, Wilson shot Brown in the head then hit him with a grazing shot at point-blank range.

Given this evidence, I think it makes more sense to assume Wilson killed him in self-defense.

 

[CasualWhimsicott]

Doesn't explain the blackpowder residue on his thumb.

Spoiler

Unless he backed away half a football field's length away (45.72m according to Google) that seems a bit unlikely, given that the autopsy report states that residue matching that of blackpowder was found on his right hand (page 13 of the report) which seems to suggest that Michael was at point-blank range with the cop. Also the fact that there's no entry wounds through his back. Unless, of course, Wilson shot Brown in the head then hit him with a grazing shot at point-blank range.

Given this evidence, I think it makes more sense to assume Wilson killed him in self-defense.

He was at least 30 to 150 feet away when he was shot. That's plenty of a distance for him to tase Bro-oh right, he didn't carry a taser. Because "It's not the most comfortable of things". Even if tasers have a chance of not working, he could have just tried while Mike was lunging at him, assuming that he was charging at Darren Wilson.

Not only that, his wounds don't match up. For example, Wilson says that Mike was punching him with his right arm, and that Wilson was using his arm to defend himself. However there isn't even a scratch on his arms, and his bruises don't really match up with the whole "punching me in the face with his right hand" story. He's got a bruise on the right side of his face (And there's debate that it's probably a birthmark and not a bruise). It's likely his wounds were self-inflicted because they aren't very severe (it's not very easy to self-inflict severe wounds because the body has safeguards against it. You could easily bite your finger off given your jaw power, but your body is like "don't do that" and whenever you try to chomp on your fingers your brain just weakens your jaw so you bite down lightly on your fingers. It will still hurt, but you won't have a chomped through the finger)
If there was an altercation in the car, it wasn't very severe. Even if Mike Brown did try to take his gun, there are safeguards against an assaulter taking the gun out of the holster. Darren Wilson took out his gun during the altercation because he feared Mike Brown's beatings would knock him unconscious. However his bruises suggest otherwise. They are not very severe, and given how he has no damage to his arm, we can assume he did not protect his face with his arm, unlike what the testimony states.
Now I am not saying there was no an altercation in the car. The residue does indeed prove that. However,

Even if Darren Wilson was scared during the fight, he should not be. He's a cop, they are trained to keep their cool. He was not being injured very badly. Darren's testimony states that he felt like a five year old being grabbed by Hulk Hogan or being horrifically beaten to the point of being knocked out, which is not true. He took out his gun during the altercation. What he should have done is shove Mike Brown out of the car (And assuming that the wounds are not self-inflicted, they were not very severe. Indicating that Mike Brown wasn't very strong.) and use his pepper spray. Lethal force should have been the last option and he should not have shot to kill. Mike Brown was unarmed and he put his hand on his waist and under his shirt and he charged at the police officer. However, if Mike Brown was unarmed, why did Mike Brown do such a funny act? It would have been fine if he just put his hands on his waist (Probably to show Darren Wilson he wasn't going to obey Darren), but he put his hand under his shirt and, with his hand still under the shirt, charged at Darren. Why would he do that? It sounds really awkward to do while charging at someone. The implication here is that Darren thought Mike had a gun (Which would have been a good reason to shoot to kill, sadly enough) in his testimony, but did it really happen? Why would Mike Brown put his hands under his shirt if he was unarmed? (Which the autopsy states he was)

This really doesn't add up. I'm sorry for sperging like this, but this deserves some critical analysis, something that can't be accomplished in a single paragraph.

 

[Long Sun]

What it comes down to is the Grand Jury is not the trial, some evidence show that it could have be justified some that it was not justified that creates an issues for trial

 

[Organic Fapcup]

-snip-

On a basic level, the story adds up just fine. Mike robs a store for some cigars, runs like hell, a cop tells him to stop. He's agitated from having just robbed the store, and might've thought the cop was stopping him for that, so he attacks the cop, who gets nervous and shoots.

The dude didn't have a taser, which is terrible. You'll have to consider, however, that he was probably scared off his ass. Cops should be prepared for this kind of stuff, of course, but Michael was a 6'4 guy with 100 pounds on Wilson, and cops prefer to have backup when dealing with criminals. Even if his wounds weren't that severe, Brown was certainly capable of harming him more severely, so Darren shot him likely to prevent more serious injuries. If he were beaten up more severely, he'd likely have been hospitalized, if not dead.

I'm going to assume that Wilson was, however, carrying his gun in an improper manner, or took it out first, given that it's pretty hard to pull a gun out of a cop's holster.

Pepper spray, eh. It wouldn't likely work, given that Brown was already attacking and he was apparently high on marijuana (according to a toxicology report, though I won't say it's for certain), and pepper spray relies on the pain making the attacker stop. Getting grazed in the thumb didn't stop Mike, did it?
Incidentally, him putting his hand under his shirt can be explained as a reaction to the aforementioned grazed shot. Dude was probably bleeding from his hand, wanting to stop the pain from the gunshot, so really, it makes sense. As for the idea that Darren should not have shot to kill, well, that's silly. When you use a gun, it's pretty implicit that you're using lethal force. Furthermore, most people whose jobs involve guns (police, military) are taught to aim for the torso, given that it's the biggest area of the body. The way the bullet wounds on his arm line up (almost in a straight line) seem to be due to Wilson firing quickly at Brown. It suggests that he was in fact, charging at Wilson, who panicked due to not having any backup against a huge guy charging right at him.

Finally, I'd like to add that the way Michael's corpse fell suggests that he was charging at the cop. Otherwise, it would have likely fallen backwards.

 

[BT 075]

Cops should be prepared for this kind of stuff, of course, but Michael was a 6'4 guy with 100 pounds on Wilson, and cops prefer to have backup when dealing with criminals.

Before we make this some sort of David & Goliath scenario, we shouldn't forget that Wilson was also 6'4" so not exactly a little fellow. Michael Brown may have been close to 300 pounds but he was clearly quite overweight. Back in the old days, you'd whack a rowdy kid over the head with a bat, at least that's what they did in my country. Now of course if Brown reached for the gun, that creates a dangerous situation which leaves Wilson little options.

I don't think Wilson and Brown where as unevenly matched as some of Wilson's supporters are trying to make it look. Wilson is a large man and Brown was not in the best shape. You saw similar arguments with the Trayvon Martin case, where some of Zimmerman's supporters tried to describe Martin as this big dangerous guy, whereas the Trayvon supporters would try to make Zimmerman look more menacing then the chubby little Latino that he was.

Wilson's "injuries" also looked thoroughly unconvincing to me. More like he cut himself shaving or some shit, rather then survived an assault from a "huge menacing criminal".

 

[Organic Fapcup]

Before we make this some sort of David & Goliath scenario, we shouldn't forget that Wilson was also 6'4" so not exactly a little fellow. Michael Brown may have been close to 300 pounds but he was clearly quite overweight. Back in the old days, you'd whack a rowdy kid over the head with a bat, at least that's what they did in my country. Now of course if Brown reached for the gun, that creates a dangerous situation which leaves Wilson little options.

I don't think Wilson and Brown where as unevenly matched as some of Wilson's supporters are trying to make it look. Wilson is a large man and Brown was not in the best shape. You saw similar arguments with the Trayvon Martin case, where some of Zimmerman's supporters tried to describe Martin as this big dangerous guy, whereas the Trayvon supporters would try to make Zimmerman look more menacing then the chubby little Latino that he was.

Wilson's "injuries" also looked thoroughly unconvincing to me. More like he cut himself shaving or some shit, rather then survived an assault from a "huge menacing criminal".

Actually hadn't followed the Trayvon case, what with me being 15 at the time. I had no idea about Wilson's height, though, so that settles something. Of course, you have to consider that Wilson was in the car when he first entered contact with Brown, so it kind of alters a person's perception.

As for the wounds, I've stated before that Wilson probably figured that Brown was gonna harm him more severely than what he did, which is why he opened fire. Plus, four months is a lot of time for the wounds to heal.

 

[CasualWhimsicott]

-snip-

I too believe that Mike Brown was charging at Wilson, even if it looked like I didn't. The shot in the head looks like he was either falling over or lunging at Brown. However, I do not believe he put his hand under his shirt and charged at Wilson. It's very awkward to do. I wouldn't have done it, even if my thumb was bleeding, if I was going to charge at someone. Overall very few of the witnesses were asked if Mike Brown put his hands at his waist, which is important. I've also looked at pictures online (I'm not posting them or linking them here because his family has requested no pictures of his body circulate online anymore than they have. But a google image search of "mike brown body" will give you several pictures that show his body from both sides at the scene of the crime. He does not look like his right hand was under his shirt when he was killed. His left arm looks like it was under it's shirt (But from the angle the picture was shot in it's hard to tell for certain if it was), but not his right arm. Indicating that he did not put his injured right hand under his shirt when he charged at Darren.)

Like other people have said that Mike Brown was the same height and very overweight when he assaulted Darren Wilson. This suggests that Mike was not in very good shape. Mike was punching him through the car window and could have easily been shoved out of the car because it wasn't his full body being shoved away, just his upper body.

Wilson should not have been scared, even in the car. He is trained not to be scared. For the average person, they can be scared and let their fear control their actions. But for a cop to be scared? That goes against training. I'm not saying Wilson wasn't scared, but he should not have been scared or let his fear control his actions. Not only that, Wilson did not know that Mike was high at the time. He still could have pepper sprayed Mike in the face because he did not know Mike was on weed, then use his gun when Mike did not respond to the pepper spray. However, he did not. He went straight for the gun. Mike was also shot in the torso two times, while a majority of the shots were in the right arm. He did not aim well, is what I'm saying. That's key here. You aim for the torso, not the arm. There are also ways to get around blowback when it comes to pepper spray.

We also do not know if Mike Brown tried to disarm Wilson or not. They did not examine the gun for fingerprints (Which is very important because trying to disarm a police officer is a felony and would have given Wilson a good reason to use lethal force, as opposed to just beating him with his fists.), or look at Wilson's wounds critically to tell the difference between a birthmark or a bruise or a self-inflicted wound.

Also Mike did not steal from the store, nor did Wilson know he went to store. I'm not buying Wilson saying that Mike handed over the cigars to his friend since it looks like he was trying to say that Mike stole from the store. Mike did ask for more cigars, but could not pay for them so he put them back. He would not have been all "Oh shit I stole from the store and there's a cop better run away".

One final thing: It is not wise for a cop to drive up to someone and talk to them through the window. You have to get out of the car and talk to them. For all Wilson knew when he drove up to them that they were just harmlessly walking on the street, not being threatening at all.

 

[Da Big Staw]

Also Mike did not steal from the store, nor did Wilson know he went to store. I'm not buying Wilson saying that Mike handed over the cigars to his friend since it looks like he was trying to say that Mike stole from the store. Mike did ask for more cigars, but could not pay for them so he put them back. He would not have been all "Oh shit I stole from the store and there's a cop better run away".

One final thing: It is not wise for a cop to drive up to someone and talk to them through the window. You have to get out of the car and talk to them. For all Wilson knew when he drove up to them that they were just harmlessly walking on the street, not being threatening at all.

Are you seriously delusional? Mike Brown robbed the fucking store, you can see him picking that shit up off the ground after his friend snags it. You don't assault the fucking store owner when you can't pay for something.(of course that clip doesn't show that, cause mike brown was a saint! so we edit our videos to show that)

If your going to try and "educate" us, please don't use obviously biased sources.

The Autism in this thread is off the charts, people equating a person robbing a convenience store, attacking a cop, then trying to steal his gun and getting shot with the fucking Jim Crow South

I actually agree the police in this country has many issues with brutality, militarization ect.. worth fighting for. This case is just a really sad example, thus you have people spouting conspiracy theory's here because the evidence is fairly clear.

 

[CasualWhimsicott]

-snip-

Okay, so let's indeed assume Mike Brown did steal from the store and assaulted the store owner. And that Mike Brown was scared of the cop. However, Darren Wilson did not know about the robbery at the time.

Whatever Mike Brown did before this has no impact on the actual incident. That's a hard pill to swallow, I agree, but Darren did not know about the robbery. All he saw was a couple of black guys jaywalking, pulled over to tell them not to do that, and then shit went down.

Also, realize this. The punishment for assault (at least, just shoving someone) and theft is not death. We've established that there is little proof that Wilson should have used lethal force, on the grounds of insufficient evidence. The evidence that is there supports the argument that Wilson should not have used lethal force. There were other options available, and he did not take them.

There is also considerable doubt that's actually Brown. The storeowner does not believe the guy in the video is Brown. Think about this. If a guy shoved you and stole things from your store, wouldn't you clearly remember what he at least looked like? If given a mugshot, would you be able to tell if he was or was not the guy that assaulted and stole from you? Perhaps he went to some other store instead.

 

[Da Big Staw]

Okay, so let's indeed assume Mike Brown did steal from the store and assaulted the store owner. And that Mike Brown was scared of the cop. However, Darren Wilson did not know about the robbery at the time.

Whatever Mike Brown did before this has no impact on the actual incident. That's a hard pill to swallow, I agree, but Darren did not know about the robbery. All he saw was a couple of black guys jaywalking, pulled over to tell them not to do that, and then shit went down.

Also, realize this. The punishment for assault (at least, just shoving someone) and theft is not death. We've established that there is little proof that Wilson should have used lethal force, on the grounds of insufficient evidence. The evidence that is there supports the argument that Wilson should not have used lethal force. There were other options available, and he did not take them.

There is also considerable doubt that's actually Brown. The storeowner does not believe the guy in the video is Brown. Think about this. If a guy shoved you and stole things from your store, wouldn't you clearly remember what he at least looked like? If given a mugshot, would you be able to tell if he was or was not the guy that assaulted and stole from you? Perhaps he went to some other store instead.

Are you seriously denying that Mike Brown robbed the store? his partner in crime admitted it. This piece is hilariously biased in favor the protesters but it quotes him saying it. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...own-friend-details-shooting-article-1.2023039. The store owner admitted he was fearful of his life/livelihood if he came out in a way that could be seen as "anti-brown" If he said that initially it's surely the case because no one but the craziest conspiracy theorists are denying Brown robbed the store given all the evidence.


Your right however that does not give the police license to kill him. However Mike Brown decided to attack the cop, when he attempted to steal the cops weapon Mike brown showed himself to be an imminent danger to the life of the police officer and civilians. In my view if he attempted any action showing an intent to seriously harm others again using lethal force would be justified. Looking at the testimony despite enormous pressure to back up the "Surrender narrative" most of the witness supported that mike brown was running towards Wilson, probably with his hands in his hoodie.

Now, if Brown had not tried to steal the gun. Running at the cop with a hand in his hoodie would IMO not be justification to shoot him. However there is no real doubt in my mind he did just that.

 

[DC 740]

Okay, so let's indeed assume Mike Brown did steal from the store and assaulted the store owner.

Going to have to stop you right here. Because he fucking did.
[youtube]v7WIju-nAoQ[/youtube]

 

[Godjesus]

I didn't expect this forum to go full social justice for a man that was stupid enough to strong-arm rob a store, assault an officer, try to steal his gun, get shot, and finally, charge back at that officer. There are real cases of police brutality and this isn't one of them. Y'all let the media rally you up on a non-case and it makes the entire issue look juvenile and a non-issue to any normal person. To you I say congratulations on hurting your own cause with a media-fabricated race-baiting pseudo-event.

But I suspect this is only a small minority of the posters here considering how few posts are in this thread.

I'll just post this and duck out since we have people in this thread desperate to grasp at straws:
Tasers do not always work

There is no reason to believe a Taser would work against a 300 lbs charging man that is not guaranteed to even hit since it's a one shot device.

Similarly for pepper spray. In close range (the vehicle) its possible he'd have sprayed himself as well and might have been a fatal mistake.

Also bullets are not magic. This isn't Die Hard where a single shot will throw you through the opposite window behind you. Refer to this article from a M.D.
http://www.policemag.com/channel/we...opping-power-myths-legends-and-realities.aspx

Real Gunshot Wounds

The point here is that no single ammunition that is typically used by law enforcement officers today can reliably claim to have superior stopping power.

I have seen a .22 caliber bullet completely incapacitate someone and a .45 ACP fail to achieve that result. People and animals shot with 10mm rounds and .357 SIG rounds have continued to run from the police. I have been on scene as a tactical medical provider when a suicidal person shot himself in the head with a .45 Colt round resulting in instant death. And I have seen the same results in suicides that used smaller calibers, including .22, .25, and .32. I have also seen people hit with 9mm, .40, and .45 without so much as staggering or slowing their verbal or physical activities.

Even bullets are not 100% stoppers.

Brown probably didn't have his hands up. Bullet entries make that possibility unlikely.
Brown was charging. His blood trail was 20 feet long behind him.
Brown was only 30 feet away not 50 yards. Wilson was not glued to his motor vehicle. I really don't know why people will believe this meme. Wilson gave chase to the perp on foot until Brown turned to charge. The bullet casing on the ground show this. Left wing media will make you believe otherwise.

These facts and the witnesses the grand jury considered credible would have made a trial a complete sham of our justice system. He did nothing wrong the prosecutor knew this as well. If it was up to him there would be no charge because there is no evidence or witness statements that would stand up against the hard evidence - and thus we get to another non-issue. The only thing I think he should have done differently is aim for the legs but police are trained in America to put 2 center of mass and one in the head. They will fire until the perp stops. I cannot fault him for following his gun training.

Instead of using Occam's Razor, people are becoming the liberal version of Alex Jones over this case. It's being used to further an agenda and narrative, instead of being seen as what it actually is. It cheapens REAL cases of police abuse and REAL cases of racism. And the kicker is - people will fight with me over this as if they are required to prove the justice of their existence to say otherwise. Hell, I've even been accused of leading KKK marches multiple times and burning down some church in Ferguson on other websites by some SJW types for saying this. These people already have their minds, and worldview predetermined - and this will cause them to ignore any contrary evidence. In the end, they grasp at straws and chase ghosts because their egos got too wrapped up in it.

 

[Sweet and Savoury]

Meh, these media types don't care about what happened.

A white cop shot a black man, that's all they needed to hear. What really happened is incedenatal to that.

You Americans really have some serious issues with the way your media works, this race baiting is going to get out of hand one day soon and you'll have the media and it pundits to thank for the resulting carnage.

 

[exball]

Spoiler

 

[Pine Tar]

Spoiler

Insanity aside, have you ever seen someone commit a crime out of love?

 

[CatParty]

Insanity aside, have you ever seen someone commit a crime out of love?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_passion

 

[QI 541]

You Americans really have some serious issues with the way your media works, this race baiting is going to get out of hand one day soon and you'll have the media and it pundits to thank for the resulting carnage.

The American media is hardly the only one that does this.

 

[exball]

You Americans really have some serious issues with the way your media works, this race baiting is going to get out of hand one day soon and you'll have the media and it pundits to thank for the resulting carnage.

I think you mean the world media. Media has pretty much always been stirring shit up.

 

[Sweet and Savoury]

I dis-agree

While it is true that media in general loves to stir shit up, I feel American media and its associated social media outlets are the worst of the bunch by far.

There are just too many people who making a living by exploiting racial tension in the states and thus each time something happens the gleefully pour gasoline into the fire hoping to push thier goals forward.

The sad thing is when blacks riot they destroy black neighbourhoods and black owned businesses, the riots never seem to spill over into more populous areas.

I feel someday soon they will push too far and start something that no one can control. And when panic sets in there will be bloodshed and it will be the black people who will bear the brunt of the loss.

Sadly I have no ideas how to make the situation any better. I don't think anyone does really.

 

[lolwut]

Meanwhile, on the streets of Ferguson:

And just like that, what little support I still had left for the protestors is gone. I say if Ferguson is so intent on tearing itself apart, let it. The next time there's a huge national controversy the ruins can stand as a warning of what will happen if they let it get out of control.