Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

XIV is political on its own and that's fine but there's a difference between what was intended and a situation where it's shoehorned in by a translator.

I mean, people love the retrains of Ghost Stories and Shin-chan, and I would wager most people aren't playing the original japanese FF14 first.

So what it comes down to is whether or not the translation's addition is something that you like. Despite the praise of 14's story, I don't think side-plot elements diverging are really going to make people quit. And there's apparently a huge population of very-financially-imprudent people in the west who seem to eat up that shoehorned shit, so there isn't even really a business incentive for the creative liberties to come to a halt. I think it's stupid, but there's like 30 yuppie teenagers out there dying to buy another daily dose of fantasia for every one of me.

I don't know how the translator industry hasn't picked up on this, but deliberately mistranslating someone's work is one of the worst things you can do as a translator since it undermines your very career.

I think having FF14 in the resume is a good enough career boost, as would be working on any of the... what was that nintendo studio people were mad about, treehouse? games. Realistically, if the game sells well, no-one's really going to care. If you were explicitly told not to tinker with anything and you tweaked some knobs, sure, you might not want to use that gig as a reference. But if anything, from the way that SE seems to handle everything else - I cannot imagine they care if side elements are significantly altered to have more genderspecials so long as the game still sells like hotcakes. I don't really see many people mad that horsefart isn't a creepy weirdo with homolust.

 

[CharcoalChkn]

And there's apparently a huge population of very-financially-imprudent people in the west who seem to eat up that shoehorned shit, so there isn't even really a business incentive for the creative liberties to come to a halt.

I think we also need to remember that there is a large chunk of silent players who genuinely do not give a single shit about the story/politics/ffxiv social media posting that will not be aware of any of this shit and just keep playing this game as long as it remains fun.

 

[John Titor]

I dunno if this situation is really a politics in video issue as much as a 'translator potentially pushing an ideology that wasn't there in japanese' issue. You see this in anime dubs sometimes such as Dragon maid having some talk about 'the patriarchy' added in and Sk8 infinity having a dub actor insert a shoutout to nonbinary people that wasn't there in japanese. XIV is political on its own and that's fine but there's a difference between what was intended and a situation where it's shoehorned in by a translator.

The difference is that the former is creating a new piece of work with a political skew, while the other is taking someone else's work and applying a political skew without the permission of the original creator, while also trying to pass it off as the original, official or "real" version.

Translators jobs is to translate in such a way that the original intent, context and material is retained as best as possible, and to only change where it is deemed necessary in order to account for things that have no direct translation, or the translation simply would not be appropriate due to it being a sentence that doesn't make sense in another language or another good reason (such as if a character name got translated and became a literal slur).

I don't know how the translator industry hasn't picked up on this, but deliberately mistranslating someone's work is one of the worst things you can do as a translator since it undermines your very career. Seriously, how the hell is it a thing that so many translators brag about deliberately doing their job badly?

I agree that they should keep the spirit. It's probably why people are not as upset about Phoenix Wright getting Americanized because it needs to considering how everyone's name is a pun. But they need to keep their opinions to their goddamn selves, this is someone else's work, not your soapbox.

I remember they promised they wouldn't alter the script again after Haurchefaunt. If you didn't know, he becomes an overeager fanboy who not so subtly says he wants to sleep with you. The emote is a reference to that.

There were other changes too such as the pop culture references but at least they were inconsequential and doesn't effect the actual plot.

 

[Pulpanator]

Pvp is fun in a Stockholm syndrome sort of way

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

I remember they promised they wouldn't alter the script again after Haurchefaunt. If you didn't know, he becomes an overeager fanboy who not so subtly says he wants to sleep with you. The emote is a reference to that.

There were other changes too such as the pop culture references but at least they were inconsequential and doesn't effect the actual plot.

Am I the only one outside of the sheer humor value of JP Haurchefant's over the top voice not bothered by Haurchefant's change in EN? I felt it was fairly obvious that he was deeply attached to you and admires you for the entire game. I don't really need him being coy about wanting to hump my leg to make that attachment (or worse) clear, if anything that makes him more annoying and ruins the impact he is supposed to have by being more annoying then endearing. I probably just don't like this Japanese trope, I found it more annoying then anything else the majority of the time. I don't even think I'd be creeped out, as this game doesn't have the cutscene design or age rating to make his character really creepy to me, he'd just be extremely annoying at worst.

Especially if you read his lodestone side story it is extremely obvious what is going on and it makes the end result of that plot line actually more tragic because it was more subdued, and I feel the localization changed him for the best as far as maintaining the emotional attachment Haurchefant is meant to give to and receive from the player. Unless you just don't like him anyway, which if you don't like him in EN you're likely going to dislike him even more in the JP version if anything.

 

[Dave.]

Pvp is fun in a Stockholm syndrome sort of way

From what I've played of it, I really don't know what classes at the moment need nerfs and/or buffs. Everything seems to have decent niches and the only real class I'd nerf partially is Dark Knight with their immunity LB (honestly I'd just give them a visual cue so you're not wasting CDs unwittingly while the DRK is impossible to kill). Dancer could maybe use a buff though because they don't seem to do enough damage.

 

[CharcoalChkn]

From what I've played of it, I really don't know what classes at the moment need nerfs and/or buffs. Everything seems to have decent niches and the only real class I'd nerf partially is Dark Knight with their immunity LB (honestly I'd just give them a visual cue so you're not wasting CDs unwittingly while the DRK is impossible to kill). Dancer could maybe use a buff though because they don't seem to do enough damage.

Dancer feels awful in the new PvP mode, I'm giving up on it for now and going back to Dragoon.

 

[Zilortha]

I mean, people love the retrains of Ghost Stories and Shin-chan, and I would wager most people aren't playing the original japanese FF14 first.

I feel like that's a bit different though. Those weren't beloved properties where people were deeply invested in the stories. They were properties no one wanted to dub in english.

 

[SouthernBitchBob]

I like it when dangerhairs try to lobby for pronoun settings in video games. It creates a perfect example. You want to be a woman, so just play a female character. Easy as that. You have the opportunity to roleplay that which you claim you want to be. Oh wait, you want to play a male character but give it a special setting so NPCs call you ma'am? Why would an NPC do that unprompted? Is your character's body giving off fantasy realm creation magic-produced horse piss HRT woman scent?

#itsafetish

 

[Vapewizard]

Am I the only one outside of the sheer humor value of JP Haurchefant's over the top voice not bothered by Haurchefant's change in EN?

For me personally once I found out about the change it became more of a meta issue where apparently other people decided on my behalf what I should or should not be offended by. I've had that before with games like Bravely default where I find it demeaning if localisers decide that looking at a videogame girl's cleavage will make me burst out crying so they gotta edit it out.

Of course that being said I know that I'm not the only one paying it and they have to make the decision based on just the general western playerbase so I just have to put up with it.

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

For me personally once I found out about the change it became more of a meta issue where apparently other people decided on my behalf what I should or should not be offended by. I've had that before with games like Bravely default where I find it demeaning if localisers decide that looking at a videogame girl's cleavage will make me burst out crying so they gotta edit it out.

Of course that being said I know that I'm not the only one paying it and they have to make the decision based on just the general western playerbase so I just have to put up with it.

I don't take it as an offense thing at all, which is why I stated that I wouldn't find it creepy if it was in the EN version. It is annoying in the way Lyse is annoying, not potentially offensive like if Haurchefant had a bit of extra dialogue where he'd call the WoL his nigga if they had dark skin for some reason.

I take the change as the original tone in the JP script doesn't work when put in front of English speaking audiences, as I assume Japanese audiences like this trope and get something out of it that conveys the same thing the EN version tries to convey with its toning down of Haurchefant, so changing it fits better for what I think they want the audience to get out of Haurchefant. I couldn't tell you if this is a language quirk, a culture thing, or people actually assuming I'd be offended and changing it. I just think the EN version works better because I play a lot of weeb shit, and this trope sucks ass every time I see it when it doesn't have much else going on to justify it (like it being a complete front for a "wolf in sheep's clothing" esque character) beyond crappy comedy relief.

 

[John Titor]

Am I the only one outside of the sheer humor value of JP Haurchefant's over the top voice not bothered by Haurchefant's change in EN? I felt it was fairly obvious that he was deeply attached to you and admires you for the entire game. I don't really need him being coy about wanting to hump my leg to make that attachment (or worse) clear, if anything that makes him more annoying and ruins the impact he is supposed to have by being more annoying then endearing. I probably just don't like this Japanese trope, I found it more annoying then anything else the majority of the time. I don't even think I'd be creeped out, as this game doesn't have the cutscene design or age rating to make his character really creepy to me, he'd just be extremely annoying at worst.

Especially if you read his lodestone side story it is extremely obvious what is going on and it makes the end result of that plot line actually more tragic because it was more subdued, and I feel the localization changed him for the best as far as maintaining the emotional attachment Haurchefant is meant to give to and receive from the player. Unless you just don't like him anyway, which if you don't like him in EN you're likely going to dislike him even more in the JP version if anything.

You're not alone on that opinion actually, plenty of people preferred the more subdued version. If it were up to me and a change has to be made, I would probably have him be super casual and be the type of guy who asks you if you want to go bowling because much of the humor comes from the fact that he isn't as stuffy as the rest of Ishgard.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

I feel like that's a bit different though. Those weren't beloved properties where people were deeply invested in the stories. They were properties no one wanted to dub in english.

Ghost Stories was churned out dreck, yeah, but Shin-Chan is one of if not the longest-running animes to date. Over 30 years strong, over 1000 episodes, and 26 full-length movies.
It's absolutely a beloved property that people are deeply invested in... in Japan. Westerners largely assume it was shit because all they know is one of the several english dubs.

Concern about faithfulness to the source material doesn't really travel far if the end product is enjoyable.

 

[Zilortha]

Ghost Stories was churned out dreck, yeah, but Shin-Chan is one of if not the longest-running animes to date. Over 30 years strong, over 1000 episodes, and 26 full-length movies.
It's absolutely a beloved property that people are deeply invested in... in Japan. Westerners largely assume it was shit because all they know is one of the several english dubs.

Concern about faithfulness to the source material doesn't really travel far if the end product is enjoyable.

That's fair I guess, but I meant "beloved" specifically in the west. I'm sure some Japanese people would find the english dub of Shin-chan ridiculous and terrible, but ultimately they don't care because it doesn't affect them.

What irks me when these localization teams start altering a story that I care about in a way that affects my ability to enjoy that story (by injecting their retarded politics/social opinions).
So while we never got the originals of those series, I'm not all that upset because I never had an investment in them to begin with. It's sad I suppose, and if I really enjoyed those series I'd be really upset. But I don't. Because we never even got to see them. Not really.

 

[Well Intentioned]

I don't know how the translator industry hasn't picked up on this, but deliberately mistranslating someone's work is one of the worst things you can do as a translator since it undermines your very career. Seriously, how the hell is it a thing that so many translators brag about deliberately doing their job badly?

To be fair, there are folks who have built entire careers off of arguing the finer points of translations and which one is/isn't accurate.

That some autistic weeb prides themselves on being some sort of authority on 'accuracy' or, worse, a better sense of what is 'intended' shouldn't be surprising.

The fan translations that started in the 90s and continue to this day speak to the arrogance of some of these retards. Looking at sites like https://legendsoflocalization.com/ gives good insight on how/why these people think the way they do. Which then gets aggravated further when you toss gender politics or whatever personal crusades they have into the mix.

 

[CptnSnshn]

I wish then new PVP mode had more than 9 completely useless com buttons.

Seriously I feel fucking autistic trying to figure out what one of 35 meanings the "Push Crystal" means this match, is it someone being sarcastic, are their enemies ready to flank there, do they want me to push the crystal? It's genuinely frustrating.

 

[CharcoalChkn]

I wish then new PVP mode had more than 9 completely useless com buttons.

Seriously I feel fucking autistic trying to figure out what one of 35 meanings the "Push Crystal" means this match, is it someone being sarcastic, are their enemies ready to flank there, do they want me to push the crystal? It's genuinely frustrating.

For me it's often meaning the match is about to time out and even if you die at least we have a chance to push it into overtime if PEOPLE ARE IN THE FUCKING CRYSTAL.

Sorry this game mode has made me so god damn MATI.

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

To be fair, there are folks who have built entire careers off of arguing the finer points of translations and which one is/isn't accurate.

That some autistic weeb prides themselves on being some sort of authority on 'accuracy' or, worse, a better sense of what is 'intended' shouldn't be surprising.

The fan translations that started in the 90s and continue to this day speak to the arrogance of some of these retards. Looking at sites like https://legendsoflocalization.com/ gives good insight on how/why these people think the way they do. Which then gets aggravated further when you toss gender politics or whatever personal crusades they have into the mix.

This is because Japanese as a language is autistic as fuck due to it being iirc "contextual" in its construction where similar or even the exact same character means like 5 different things depending on the context it is used. I've tried parsing Japanese text enough for nerd/weeb reasons to realize that this language is just extremely fucking weird that you can get nitpicky about anything and it is technically right. You can have like 3 different words for a single number because the context that number is used is different. Like "NANI!?" is not the only word for the surprised expression for "WHAT!?", and "nani" is iirc extremely informal and you'd basically never use it in real life unless you are messing around with friends or want to be a jackass in public.

It isn't like when I studied Spanish where the worst you get is like a one letter difference or a small pronunciation difference (or arguing semantic differences between how say Spain, Cuba, and Mexico say the same fucking word due to accents) makes a different word, but beyond the whole gendered language stuff where words have gender (aka why "latinx" is absolutely asinine ESPECIALLY in Spanish) it is fairly straight forward coming from English. You just have to understand its grammar structure and obviously what the words mean and you can generally do fine.

Japanese has 3 different character systems while also having its "contextual" shit and social ques are also important due to again the whole informal vs formal versions of words which heavily influence how you interpret a character's tone and manner of speech, which is why when a character speaks informally constantly they can sometimes be translated to become a colossal jackass or a bitch more then intended if you read the words via solely subtitles. This is why word play jokes never translate well in Japanese to English and you tend to see weird shit that just replaces the entire joke. This isn't even going into if the character uses slang or some weird meme that only works in Japanese.

If Japan didn't make such a shitshow of a language this whole thing wouldn't be so bad.

 

[Friendly_AI]

日本語は複雑すぎるんだよう！

/translator sperg on/
Idk, for a Russian language speaker Japanese is relatively easy to grasp. It has no cases, the sentence structures are relatively stable, you just have to learn kanji and kana most of the time. Russian is somewhere in the middle between "everything depends on a context" like Japanese and "you have to spell it out" English.
Context thing is really not that bad, when you have some life experience and can substitute a phrase commonly used in your language in the same situation. The main problem in game translation is usually the character limit. Since Japanese is so compact, sometimes it is really hard for non-hieroglyphic languages to "fit in" the string. FFXIV doesn't seem to have that issue.
/translator sperg off/

 

[CptnSnshn]

This is because Japanese as a language is autistic as fuck due to it being iirc "contextual" in its construction where similar or even the exact same character means like 5 different things depending on the context it is used. I've tried parsing Japanese text enough for nerd/weeb reasons to realize that this language is just extremely fucking weird that you can get nitpicky about anything and it is technically right. You can have like 3 different words for a single number because the context that number is used is different. Like "NANI!?" is not the only word for the surprised expression for "WHAT!?", and "nani" is iirc extremely informal and you'd basically never use it in real life unless you are messing around with friends or want to be a jackass in public.

It isn't like when I studied Spanish where the worst you get is like a one letter difference or a small pronunciation difference (or arguing semantic differences between how say Spain, Cuba, and Mexico say the same fucking word due to accents) makes a different word, but beyond the whole gendered language stuff where words have gender (aka why "latinx" is absolutely asinine ESPECIALLY in Spanish) it is fairly straight forward coming from English. You just have to understand its grammar structure and obviously what the words mean and you can generally do fine.

Japanese has 3 different character systems while also having its "contextual" shit and social ques are also important due to again the whole informal vs formal versions of words which heavily influence how you interpret a character's tone and manner of speech, which is why when a character speaks informally constantly they can sometimes be translated to become a colossal jackass or a bitch more then intended if you read the words via solely subtitles. This is why word play jokes never translate well in Japanese to English and you tend to see weird shit that just replaces the entire joke. This isn't even going into if the character uses slang or some weird meme that only works in Japanese.

If Japan didn't make such a shitshow of a language this whole thing wouldn't be so bad.

Look as long as mommy goddess crushes me with her milkers in Endwalker raid 2 or 3 then I can forgive anyone with pastel coloured hair and an arts degree changing things,