Formula 1 Discussion - And favourite driver?

[Coccxys]

Mick's not bringing in money (The 1&1 sponsorship came from before he got his seat)

I got this wild idea of Mick joining Mercedes at some point

Don't forget Mick is contracted to Ferrari as a junior driver. He's driving for Haas technically on loan from them.

With Haas being a de facto Ferrari junior team they're going to have to keep one of their academy drivers in a seat to keep their sweetheart engine deal and technical partnership (everything that can be legally bought they get from Ferrari).

Hell the windtunnel and CFD suite they use is Ferraris rather than having their own. It's one of the things Toto keeps prattling on about with zero evidence that somehow Ferrari are getting time beyond their allowance by doing something dodgy with Haas.

 

[JoseRaulChupacabra]

Don't forget Mick is contracted to Ferrari as a junior driver. He's driving for Haas technically on loan from them.

With Haas being a de facto Ferrari junior team they're going to have to keep one of their academy drivers in a seat to keep their sweetheart engine deal and technical partnership (everything that can be legally bought they get from Ferrari).

Are they hoping to recreate another Schumacher Caballero Rojo situation?

I've not followed F1 at all before last year, and all I could remember was hearing the name Schumacher repeatedly as a child and that he's riding the screaming Ferrari with the signature sound.

 

[Weeb Slinger]

I would assume that Hamilton has a clause in his contract, that if he's not challenging for the title, he might leave the team at the end of the season (or even sooner).

This might be an option to either the team or Lewis and I would not be surprised to see it happen. Lewis can retire (or be forced to retire) that way if the relationship to Mercedes implodes - which isn't entirely unlikely. Russel will renew his contract for next season and he's in a very strong position to negotiate quite favorable terms.
Terms that might piss off Lewis quite a lot. Such as Mercedes allowing drivers to compete in the first few races and then backing the one that performed better to be the #1.
I guess even terms stating that Russel does not have to let Lewis pass if Lewis is behind Russel in the Team standings (something I would argue is in place even now) is enough to take its toll on King Louie.

At the moment, Toto's got Larbleton's back, but if this stretch of bad performance continues, chances do increase for Hamilton to say something so fundamentally stupid, that it pisses off the Mercedes high brass. Something like "My team is backing Russel cause he's white". That, I could see acting as a nuclear bomb in Hamilton's career.

The destinies of Hamilton and Wolff were combined when they both touched the Interlagos Fate Stone at the same time, and a hologram of Michael Schumacher, in his secret evolved form as the Grand Mechanic, warned them that they would be bound to one another, even beyond death. But that's another story.

What this means in practical terms is that the exit of one from the front end of the sport is likely to precipitate the departure of the other. Wolff, as part team owner, has the option to graduate to a more hands-off role within the Mercedes whenever he chooses. I suspect that, if it looks like the team are settling into a bronze medal position during this iteration of F1, he will ascend into senior management and lobby for a set of rules that are more sympathetic to Mercedes the next time there is a sea change in the sport. It's not like there is no precedent for this. Unless there is a massive improvement in on-track performance, I think that he will leave the pit wall at the conclusion of 2023.

Hamilton can't be very popular with the team, given his off-hand remarks about allowing the second driver to race on his behalf, if he isn't allowed to wear his jewellery. It's incredibly disrespectful to the people who are building his car and doing their best to make it a contender on the track. His sour and unhelpful attitude has been thrown into stark relief by the bright-eyed George Russell, who has more than earned his spot. Outside of the Sky Commentary team, Wolff is his main vocal supporter, though it isn't clear how much of his cheerleading is sincere and how much is aimed at managing the punctured ego of a man who threatens to drag the entire operation off-kilter. If Wolff jumps first then Hamilton will follow sooner or later. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the penny to drop. Will he limp on for one more season in the Merc?

When he leaves Mercedes, I assume that he will also leave the sport. Where else would he go? No top team would take him even if there was space. The man is a walking liability. He would never be able to adjust in any positive way to life in a midfield team where the emphasis is on development. Unlike Alonso, for example, who will provide feedback that will help you build a better car, Hamilton never developed these skills because he never had too. I wonder if there was the option of him bringing things around full circle and racing for McLaren, whether he would do that.

He seems lost. One the great F1 photos of all time is of Kimi and his family with their backs to the camera, walking away from F1 for good with nothing left to prove. I don't know where else Hamilton would go. I don't think he knows either.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

The destinies of Hamilton and Wolff were combined when they both touched the Interlagos Fate Stone at the same time, and a hologram of Michael Schumacher, in his secret evolved form as the Grand Mechanic, warned them that they would be bound to one another, even beyond death. But that's another story.

What this means in practical terms is that the exit of one from the front end of the sport is likely to precipitate the departure of the other. Wolff, as part team owner, has the option to graduate to a more hands-off role within the Mercedes whenever he chooses. I suspect that, if it looks like the team are settling into a bronze medal position during this iteration of F1, he will ascend into senior management and lobby for a set of rules that are more sympathetic to Mercedes the next time there is a sea change in the sport. It's not like there is no precedent for this. Unless there is a massive improvement in on-track performance, I think that he will leave the pit wall at the conclusion of 2023.

Hamilton can't be very popular with the team, given his off-hand remarks about allowing the second driver to race on his behalf, if he isn't allowed to wear his jewellery. It's incredibly disrespectful to the people who are building his car and doing their best to make it a contender on the track. His sour and unhelpful attitude has been thrown into stark relief by the bright-eyed George Russell, who has more than earned his spot. Outside of the Sky Commentary team, Wolff is his main vocal supporter, though it isn't clear how much of his cheerleading is sincere and how much is aimed at managing the punctured ego of a man who threatens to drag the entire operation off-kilter. If Wolff jumps first then Hamilton will follow sooner or later. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the penny to drop. Will he limp on for one more season in the Merc?

When he leaves Mercedes, I assume that he will also leave the sport. Where else would he go? No top team would take him even if there was space. The man is a walking liability. He would never be able to adjust in any positive way to life in a midfield team where the emphasis is on development. Unlike Alonso, for example, who will provide feedback that will help you build a better car, Hamilton never developed these skills because he never had too. I wonder if there was the option of him bringing things around full circle and racing for McLaren, whether he would do that.

He seems lost. One the great F1 photos of all time is of Kimi and his family with their backs to the camera, walking away from F1 for good with nothing left to prove. I don't know where else Hamilton would go. I don't think he knows either.

Hey, remember when Hamilton commented on a group-photo of all the engineers that worked on his WDC-winning cars of the past and the only thing he had to say was "an awful lot of honkies, knowhatImean."?

Romanesridge Farm remembers...

I wouldn't say Hamilton dislikes the sport, but I don't think he really likes it either. It has become a means to and end, and that end is street cred with afro-american high society.
If Hamilton joined McLaren and drove for an underdog team, just cause he enjoys the sport, I'd really appreciate it, but I doubt it. And as I've said numerous times, unlike most other drivers, I simply don't think he has any worthwhile input on car design or team management whatsoever. If he sticks around as advisor for Mercedes after his active driving days, he'll be insanely toxic and demanding token blacks to be picked for jobs they don't qualify for or stirring up shit with mandated diversity training sessions for his team (which will incidently just create barriers between people, rather than making them work as one).
Thankfully (for Merc), I doubt that's what Hamilton has in mind, though. He wants to be a "brand ambassador", whatever the fuck that is. I guess basically a black Marlboro Man for Mercedes... and maybe his own shitty clothes line or cologne or something.

 

[Su-27 Flanker-B]

What the fuck is going on with formula E? Youtube got me recommended some weird knockout tournament, apparently that is how they do qualifying?

 

[Pee Cola]

I wouldn't say Hamilton dislikes the sport, but I don't think he really likes it either. It has become a means to and end, and that end is street cred with afro-american high society.

The thing is that once upon a time, this wasn't the case. The Lewis Hamilton from the Top Gear Senna tribute posted earlier ITT is a completely different person to Kang Lewlew Hambone the First.

What the fuck is going on with formula E? Youtube got me recommended some weird knockout tournament, apparently that is how they do qualifying?

It gets worse. IIRC there's some sort of home viewer vote that acts as a power-up during the race for the most popular driver. Formula E is an abomination that has set back the cause of EVs by at least a decade.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

The thing is that once upon a time, this wasn't the case. The Lewis Hamilton from the Top Gear Senna tribute posted earlier ITT is a completely different person to Kang Lewlew Hambone the First.

It's sad to see a driver who genuinely enjoyed the sport has become so full of himself. No humbleness, not passion. Just attention whoring.

It gets worse. IIRC there's some sort of home viewer vote that acts as a power-up during the race for the most popular driver. Formula E is an abomination that has set back the cause of EVs by at least a decade.

Yeah, the fan-boost. It's a really sad attempt to increase fan engagement, by giving them a way to influence the race. Might as well allow F1 fans to throw garbage on the track, after all, apparently it's peak sportsmanship to have people from outside the sport interfering with the outcome.

Attack-mode is fucking stupid, too. It gives you a few minutes of more engine power, but when there's a yellow flag or VSC, the time ticks down nonetheless, so you waste that engine boost. Worst of all, the few races I watched, the attack mode zones that you need to driver over to activate that boost are placed in corners off the racing line, so by going through those zones, you end up losing at least 2 or 3 places and then under best circumstances, you might end up where you were before you grabbed the boost. More often than not, I saw people end up losing places when using attack mode. What the fuck is that?
Might as well call it the "try to reclaim track position" mode. It's mandatory to use it, but I have always wondered what the punishment for not using it at all is, cause anything short of a DSQ has a decent chance of being less severe than using this craptastic "game" mechanic.

The fundamental problems of Formula E:

1) The sport mainly consists of failed F1 drivers.
2) It doesn't feel like a sport, it feels like a mere game. Add Problem 1) and this gets even worse. It's not about "the best of the best" competing for a title. It's literally a bunch of F1-has-beens taking turns playing bumper cars.
3) The sport is about efficient use of energy, that's interesting from an engineering POV, but it does not make for good racing. In fact, it's the exact opposite of what racing should be like. Instead of trying to go as fast as possible and push the limits of racing performance, it's all about coasting towards the finishing line. It's a "racing" "sport" that uses regular car tyres for crying out loud.
4) The game is literally like flipping coins or throwing dice. By the end of each season, a shitton of drivers are still in for a title fight. This isn't due to them having such a tight competition, it's virtually random who ends up winning.
5) The racetracks are terrible. All of them. The sport avoids F1 tracks like the plague, cause it makes it abundantly clear how utterly slow and underwhelming these cars are. Imagine a FE car going up Eau Rouge They once went to the F1 layout of Monaco and the laptimes were abyssmal.
6) Something that's not easily fixable, but the cars sound like RC cars. It's just pathetic. If the races were actual nail-biters and offered great racing moments, it would be forgiven, but the way it is, I can't take this shit seriously at all.

Whenver I watch Formula E, I am reminded of the chase scenes from Space Mutiny.

My ideas to make Formula E stop being crap:

1) Remove Fan-boost and attack mode.
2) Introduce a battery-change mechanic. I imagine you could put up a crane that can attach to the battery, lift it out the car and drop a new one in.
3) With power consumption no longer being a limiting factor thanks to a "refueling" mechanic, make the cars go as fast as possible.

I want to see a sport where drivers push themselves and their cars to the limit at break-neck speeds with cutting edge engineering. Formula E is a boringly tedious, needlessly gamefied wannabe-sport that's more obsessed with its "green" reputation than with delivering actual racing action. The championship results are essentially just randomized due to the highly erratic way how races go.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Formula E is the "Never Mind the Buzzcocks" of professional motorsports.

 

[quaawaa]

With power consumption no longer being a limiting factor thanks to a "refueling" mechanic, make the cars go as fast as possible.

They used to have a second car and have the driver swap into it when it ran out of battery. Same effect as a battery swap, just more expensive. It was also incredibly lame.

 

[The Grognard]

IMO the main focus with FE should be that there shouldn't be a limit to how much power you can store as long as the battery fits to the car. Thus, there would be an incentive to maximize the efficiency of the storage and thus give a reason for the constructors to spend as much money as they can to solving the primary issue with electric cars.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

They used to have a second car and have the driver swap into it when it ran out of battery. Same effect as a battery swap, just more expensive. It was also incredibly lame.

I know, but that just sorta highlights how much of a gimmick FE is and that it is very limited. A battery swap is much more acceptable to me in that regard.

Electromobility in general has the issue of absurdly long recharging periods, so a couple companies were spitballing the idea of swapping batteries for e-cars on the road, just to be about as quick as pumping gas. FE could attempt such a system for racing and see how it goes.

IMO the main focus with FE should be that there shouldn't be a limit to how much power you can store as long as the battery fits to the car. Thus, there would be an incentive to maximize the efficiency of the storage and thus give a reason for the constructors to spend as much money as they can to solving the primary issue with electric cars.

Absolutely, they should just be given the dimensions and weight limit of the battery and then try to squeeze as much power in there as possible. But afaik, the batteries are standardized... so while F1 has the thin veneer of pioneering new possible technology for road-cars, FE is literally bailing out on that one. FE has no applicability for e-mobility whatsoever.

And here's a really wild fucking idea: Formula 1 could become more eco-friendly than FE by simply using some eco-friendly means to shuttle spectators from trainstation, hotels and airports to the racetrack.

 

[Pee Cola]

Electromobility in general has the issue of absurdly long recharging periods, so a couple companies were spitballing the idea of swapping batteries for e-cars on the road, just to be about as quick as pumping gas. FE could attempt such a system for racing and see how it goes.

IIRC it was the Renault-Nissan alliance doing stuff with swappable batteries about a decade ago, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. If FE really wants to break away from its reputation as a boring and irrelevant virtue signalling exercise, FIA or whoever it is that runs it should push for stuff that will improve range and/or recharging times, with a view to said innovations eventually trickling down to road cars. Kinda like what F1 kinda-sorta does (or did once upon a time).

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

IIRC it was the Renault-Nissan alliance doing stuff with swappable batteries about a decade ago, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. If FE really wants to break away from its reputation as a boring and irrelevant virtue signalling exercise, FIA or whoever it is that runs it should push for stuff that will improve range and/or recharging times, with a view to said innovations eventually trickling down to road cars. Kinda like what F1 kinda-sorta does (or did once upon a time).

The as of now unattainable holy grail of e-mobility is being able to recharge a battery in about the same time it takes to pump gas at a regular gas-station. That's for a regular road car were refueling takes a few minutes though. F1 cars used to be refueld within a couple seconds thanks to high-performance pumps, I doubt I'll see batteries being able to do that in my lifetime tbh. A pitstop to recharge a battery that takes a couple minutes would be rather lackluster, so swapping batteries might be a better idea I think.
Man, wouldn't it be cool if you could recharge FE cars via induction, possibly even while driving through the pitlane?

But I agree, FE needs to spearhead technologies like better batteries, better recharging times, better performance, better materials to make lighter cars and so on... or just give up on the virtue signalling completely and just try to make the sport more fun to watch.

 

[JoseRaulChupacabra]

IIRC it was the Renault-Nissan alliance doing stuff with swappable batteries about a decade ago, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. If FE really wants to break away from its reputation as a boring and irrelevant virtue signalling exercise, FIA or whoever it is that runs it should push for stuff that will improve range and/or recharging times, with a view to said innovations eventually trickling down to road cars. Kinda like what F1 kinda-sorta does (or did once upon a time).

I don't really know much about batteries except that they suck compared to fuel. Maybe some EV companies have proprietary shit in theirs that doesn't work out with that arrangement?

Thankfully (for Merc), I doubt that's what Hamilton has in mind, though. He wants to be a "brand ambassador", whatever the fuck that is. I guess basically a black Marlboro Man for Mercedes... and maybe his own shitty clothes line or cologne or something.

Not sure how well that'll work out. Sportsball appeals to people in a way motorsports doesn't (arguably can't) - anyone with a ball and some free space, even just street when no cars are passing, can play, not so much for racing.

 

[Balr0g]

But I agree, FE needs to spearhead technologies like better batteries, better recharging times, better performance, better materials to make lighter cars and so on... or just give up on the virtue signalling completely and just try to make the sport more fun to watch.

To be fair the sport often looks more fun to watch espcially when FE drivers drive like they sit in bumper cars insead of open wheelers (which they aren't as the tyres are within some form of chassis). The most funny part is how they actually charge the batteries for the race weekend: they burn a form of Methanol mix to power generators which in turn charge the batteries. So they don't emite Co2 (you know the bad gas) but something else.

 

[DapperShark]

To be fair the sport often looks more fun to watch espcially when FE drivers drive like they sit in bumper cars insead of open wheelers (which they aren't as the tyres are within some form of chassis). The most funny part is how they actually charge the batteries for the race weekend: they burn a form of Methanol mix to power generators which in turn charge the batteries. So they don't emite Co2 (you know the bad gas) but something else.

I think it's kind of precious how they always run unconventional layouts at race tracks to hide the fact that even a GT3 car would run circles around an FE car.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I think it's kind of precious how they always run unconventional layouts at race tracks to hide the fact that even a GT3 car would run circles around an FE car.

There's a video where a street-legal sportscar a supercar and an F1 car do a race over one lap, with the sportscar and the supercar getting a headstarts...

I'd love to see something like this with F1 and FE cars. I think the FE car could even out-accelerate an F1 car at the start and in slow corners, but the F1 car has an edge literally everywhere else. Even at a similar straightline speed, the F1 car is set up to haul ass through a corner with its massive downforce, while FE is trying to disturb the air as little as possible (ie: no downforce whatsoever), so the F1 car would get away with braking much later and going around the corner much quicker.

Monaco is a track that's more to the strength of FE, I'd say, cause there's not many flat out fast corners and long straights, but the tracklayout is similar in both FE and F1 so we can have a look at a few pieces of data:

2021:

	Formula E	Formula 1
Course length	3.318km	3.337km
Race length (laps/distance)	26 laps/86.268km	78 laps/260.286km
Fastest lap (Qualifying)	1:31.317	1:10.346
Fastest lap (Race)	1:34.428	1:12.909

2022 used the exact same layout as F1:

	Formula E	Formula 1
Course length	3.337km	3.337km
Race length (laps/distance)	30 laps/100.110km	64 laps/213.568km
Fastest lap (Qualifying)	1:29.839	1:11.376
Fastest lap (Race)	1:32.707	1:14.693

Imagine a direct comparison on a track like Baku with that murderously long straight, I bet the difference on that single straight alone would come to 5 seconds.

Now, that alone doesn't make for good racing, FE is much slower than F1 and that's not gonna change for some time. Unless 100kg of battery contain about as much energy as 100l of fuel, we won't be seeing much competition between the two sports performance-wise... but speed alone doesn't equal good racing.

FE isn't troubled due to being slower than F1, it is troubled cause the sport is virtue signalling bullshit with shitty mechanics that make DRS look good. A race with a "fan boost" simply isn't a sport. It's a game.

 

[Coccxys]

Formula E has been crippled by gimmicks since it's inception. It didn't help that it became the goto for drivers who failed in everything else they touched.

When it was first announced I thought could be interesting then I heard about the down with da kidz social media voting and decided it wasn't worth my time because it's not about racing in the slightes.

Now they have the knock out championship style qualifying that has already caused controversy. At one event two drivers set identical times so the one that set it second ended up with an awful grid slot. The controversy being that the driver order in the head to heads is set so the one going 1st would always get an advantage in that regard.

Throw in rhe zoomer bait voting, the need to drive through some dumb zone and the fact a race had to be ended early last season otherwise no one would have been able to finish and the whole thing is a giant joke.

It fails in it's most basic goal of driving the tech too since as has been said they can't develop most of the gubbins that goes into making an electric car work.

Formula 1 engines are already 2-3 times as thermally efficient as any road car engine and with the increase in ethanol content that is also getting cleaner. There are transferable technologies in that area to real world. There is a push to totally renewable fuels and they've even floated exploring hydrogen.

TLDR FE is failing to be a decent racing series, a technology driver or an ambassador for electric. There is no way in which is succeeds at anything (other than a tax write off, but that's a different matter).

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Formula E has been crippled by gimmicks since it's inception. It didn't help that it became the goto for drivers who failed in everything else they touched.

There is a comparison to be made with women's sports and men declaring themselves trannies...

Also, FE really is best summed up by an old Simpson's joke that sadly, is absolutely spot on:

 

[Coccxys]

There is a comparison to be made with women's sports and men declaring themselves trannies...

Just look at the list of champions



It's a who's who of drivers who failed their way out of better series (hell one had to deliberately crash in F1 to try and keep their seat). Only de Vries isn't some cast off and that's only because Toto had no where to put his pet driver after he won GP2 (seriously listen to toto speaking about de Vries, that shit feels like Susie should be side eyeing Toto's messages with him).

Mercedes clearly see not point to it since they're selling up and shipping out (selling to McLaren) and they ain't the only manufacturer team sounding less than certain about continued involvement.

It's a pity because there are many ways you could make an electric series interesting but the guy who started FE got the exclusivity of FIA electric racing and made this with it.