Game of Thrones Thread

[wtfNeedSignUp]

1. The assassin was likely not supposed to stab Bran to death. He was supposed to strangle him. If he stabs Bran it makes it an obvious murder that cannot be covered up. When Jon Arryn was poisoned it was easy for Pycelle to cover it up because he could pass it off as sickness. The dagger was not a weapon for assassination, it was just a form of payment instead of money. Because Joffrey did not have access to enough money to pay for an assassin. And Joffrey was a dumb kid so he chose a Valyrian dagger not knowing how insanely rare it was and how it could be traced to him (though this is contradicted during his wedding when he blurts "I am no stranger to Valyrian steel", so maybe he chose the rarest dagger on purpose). Stabbing Bran to death would be retarded but the assassin only uses the knife once he is cornered. The money he has on him could have been another payment, money he stole, or his own money. There is no definitive answer in the story.

2. Joffrey is the heir to the throne. Half of the guards of Robert are Lannister guards not his own. So Joffrey getting easy access to valuables is not a huge stretch. Him being able to look through Robert's dagger collection seems reasonable.

3. Again Joffrey is written to be insane and always looking to murder people. He openly fantasizes about staging murder scenes with dead bodies and putting corpses up as decorations. Also Joffrey in the books is younger than the actor on the show so he is immature. Joffrey orders other murders than Bran so it fits with his character.

4. This is how GRRM writes unfortunately. Things are kept secret like the obvious identity of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, no one suspecting that Jon was from Rhaegar, Mance ridiculously being a singer at Winterfell in front of everyone. Stuff like information in ASOIAF is generally always secret or revealed when it is convenient for the plot. Not when it actually makes sense. Like Lysa blurting out all of her and Littlefinger's secrets in front of Sansa was her pretty much breaking the fourth wall and telling the audience information. Because GRRM wanted some big shocking twist and so one his characters just starts vomiting up secret information in public. Joffrey blurting out some things but keeping others secret is the selective and inconsistent style that GRRM always does with his characters. It is why there are so many theories and characters seem unreadable.

1. Like I said, it would be far more logical to stash the knife and get a different, more practical, sidearm that can be tossed aside in the likely case of the assassin fleeing for his life. Also no way a noble born won't be instructed on Valyrian weaponary considering how much of (supposedly) an artifact they are.

2. Geoffrey having access is not the problem, the problem is that this kind of dagger would be the centerpiece of the entire collection. And it's very likely such an artifact would be checked every day simply by its sheer rarity and cultural importance (not to mention it being stored on a caravan would mean the guy in charge is risking his head if anything disappears). It's like the Louvre having the Mona Lisa stolen and not noticing because they have plenty of other painitngs.

3. But Geoffrey isn't insane. He's pretty consistently written as being a sochiopath with daddy and superiority-inferiority complex. It's also creates a paradox of him being smart enough to plan a murder with someone who won't immediately spill the beans, but also delusional enough to act on base urges.

4. I think the simpler reasoning was GRRM writing only the setup to get the characters moving and then closing the plotline hapazardly once he realized that it didn't have anywhere to go.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

The murder was planned by a child, it was always meant to be messy. The original plan was killing Jon Arryn. Exposing Jame and Cersei was never part of LF's plans, that's something that happened by chance when Bran saw them, and then Joffrey tried to kill him to impress Robert. Not everything follows an established plan, things can be chaotic and fortunate. In this case, it was really not that fortunate because all of this leaded Ned to discover the truth, but it also lead him to being beheaded.

Robert is very predictable. LF knew that killing Arryn would mean Robert would ask Ned to be the Hand and he knew that Ned would accept because the other option was Tywin Lannister. He made Lysa send that letter because he wanted to make sure Ned would go to KL to get justice for Arryn, whom he loved. The most common explanation people would give is that LF just wanted chaos to his benefit and they might be correct, but he was also a petty bitch and wanted Ned killed because he married Cat, because Brandon humiliated him, and because Tully shunned him. Joffrey's stupidity only worked to his favor because he's good adapting to a situation.

 

[Activelo]

 

[Tasty Tatty]

The black dude looks so ridiculous there. Had Martin made all Valyrians black, I wouldn't mind. He didn't though.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

The black dude looks so ridiculous there. Had Martin made all Valyrians black, I wouldn't mind. He didn't though.

I hope wokeness doesn't kill this show. I just heard the plot for Bloodmoon, and I feel like HBO could have made it after the conclusion of this series.

 

[DapperShark]

The black dude looks so ridiculous there. Had Martin made all Valyrians black, I wouldn't mind. He didn't though.

It's also a plot hole, house Velaryon is basically a Targaryen cadet branch

 

[Tasty Tatty]

It's also a plot hole, house Velaryon is basically a Targaryen cadet branch

Yeah, I don't remember much of the book that tells the story of the Dance of Dragons, but I think there was even a plot when the paternity of one of the Royal kids was questioned. If the kid had been born black, everybody would know...

 

[AnyballLecter]

You can read the whole entry here in Martin's" not a blog", only quoting the most important and relevant:

 

[The Inward]

House of Dargons predictions:

Characters and story will be boring
There will be a lot of bloody violence probably worth seeing once
The nudity will be mediocre, too much weiner
At least two seasons
D I V E R S I T Y
Dargons, but not much cus expensive

 

[Some Badger]

I honestly did like that Daenerys' resurrection being implied was a thing-its a good bit of ambiguous foreboding to end the series on. You can imagine her being resurrected by Kinvara and the priests in Volantis or Drogon burying her in the great grass sea.

Whether or not it was intended is unclear. (Matt Bellamy-one of the singer/promoters did a song called pray that mentions "bringing her back" before the show ended, and Sam definitely is about to say "Volantis" before being cut off), maybe I'm reaching.

So there isn't entirely a lack of sequel hooks.

Not sure what the point would be, beyond giving the audience something to chew on.

I’m half expecting Drogon to fly Daenerys’ corpse all the way to Asshai to be resurrected by the R’hllor, and since it’s implied by one of Bran’s visions that dragons to native to Asshai in the books, it’s possible Drogon instinctively knows where the city is located.

Yes that sounds stupid, but so was Dany getting carried off for an implied resurrection to cap off the last episode in the first place.

 

[Ishtar]

I’m half expecting Drogon to fly Daenerys’ corpse all the way to Asshai to be resurrected by the R’hllor, and since it’s implied by one of Bran’s visions that dragons to native to Asshai in the books, it’s possible Drogon instinctively knows where the city is located.

Yes that sounds stupid, but so was Dany getting carried off for an implied resurrection to cap off the last episode in the first place.

It’s odd to me they insinuated the possibility so strongly. The Bellamy song, and Sam saying “Vol…” was it a thrown bone to Daenerys fans?

The series is over and no sequels were planned, why have such a sequel hook?

 

[Some Badger]

It’s odd to me they insinuated the possibility so strongly. The Bellamy song, and Sam saying “Vol…” was it a thrown bone to Daenerys fans?

The series is over and no sequels were planned, why have such a sequel hook?

Trust me, I've been asking myself this question for a while. I could never see GoT getting a sequel series even if the ending was actually good. I can only guess that D&D wanted to leave some things open-ended in the event that HBO wanted to reboot the IP down the road.

 

[SmugAutist]

I’m half expecting Drogon to fly Daenerys’ corpse all the way to Asshai to be resurrected by the R’hllor, and since it’s implied by one of Bran’s visions that dragons to native to Asshai in the books, it’s possible Drogon instinctively knows where the city is located.

Yes that sounds stupid, but so was Dany getting carried off for an implied resurrection to cap off the last episode in the first place.

If we get resurrected Daenerys in the Jon Snow sequel and Martin signs off on it, he can never shit on Tolkien for bringing Gandalf back from death.

 

[Ishtar]

I mean…a resurrected Daenerys is barring Bran pulling out a skin change on Drogon magic defense, an absolute apocalypse for Westeros.

She won’t be coming to claim her throne peacefully, she’ll be a lady stoneheart with dragons looking to set the ungrateful continent that denied her on fire-literally.

(At least that’s how it would be written under an author competently).

 

[Tasty Tatty]

They only did it because they can't write.

And this applies to any question you have about the show.

Personally, I don't think Dany's gonna die in the books. I think she's gonna have what she really wants, not what she thinks she wants: a family instead of Westeros. You can't have that in a show where the big premise is that Women are Powerful™ and Need no Man.

 

[TheHarbinger]

Personally, I don't think Dany's gonna die in the books. I think she's gonna have what she really wants, not what she thinks she wants: a family instead of Westeros. You can't have that in a show where the big premise is that Women are Powerful™ and Need no Man.

That would require a lot of story changes. When Dany burns down King's Landing it basically solidifies her inability to rule in Westeros. She is looked at like a maniac and unhinged. With dragons on top of that. The worst kind of ruler. So her either being killed or banished was an inevitability once she kept burning people alive with her dragons. Her being killed also gives an excuse for her remaining dragons to retreat back to Ashai or Valyria long ways away from Westeros. Magic remains in the world but Westeros does not have to deal with wild dragons.

Finally her having a family is something that Miri the witch told her would never happen. Though there were rumors that when they shot her death scene in Game of Thrones they had the actress wearing a pregnancy bump under her costume that was ultimately edited out.

For Dany to live she either would need to not go mad and burn King's Landing. Or go mad and then exile herself from Westeros. Or go fully mad and force Westeros to live under her total control and basically enslave them. Making her descent into insanity complete seeing as how she was freeing Essos from slavery to now becoming a tyrannical ruler. She cannot burn down King's Landing and live normally in Westeros.

My guess is that the show was faithful to the books. Dany loses two dragons. Goes insane. Wipes out literally all of King's Landing in retaliation. Jon kills her but being a Targ himself can control Drogon enough to get him to fly away peacefully. And killing characters rather than writing them a logical ending is typical GRRM style. GRRM likes to shock people with endless deaths.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

When Dany burns down King's Landing

Dany burning KL ain't set on stone. And it's likely a bait, the one burning it all down is likely old Griff. He's all but openly saying "I'm burning shit down"

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Finally her having a family is something that Miri the witch told her would never happen

Isn't it fun when some rando herbalist prophecy pretty much dictates an entire character's future progress rather than their own mentality and weaknesses? GRRM's books are so deep.

 

[Kaktus Kompot]

Can't remember where exactly I heard this theory, but it's my favorite assumption on how the conflict with the Others could end. The gist is that the Others bring the winter, and if they get completely destroyed, the world would suffer from eternal summer and catastrophic droughts. People need livable climate and Others need human children to turn, so they both can't survive without each other. In the past, the northmen gave out their bastard children as a part of the pact, but they eventually stopped and now the snowmen are invading Westeros for fresh humans, since they'll die out without them. Therefore, the ending of the series could have (if it comes out) a new pact between the humans and the Others where both sides make a sacrifice for their mutual survival. Sounds like a much more intersting ending that fits the themes of the story, unlike the big ice boss getting shanked by a teenage faceless ninja wolfgirl.

 

[Ishtar]

They only did it because they can't write.

And this applies to any question you have about the show.

Personally, I don't think Dany's gonna die in the books. I think she's gonna have what she really wants, not what she thinks she wants: a family instead of Westeros. You can't have that in a show where the big premise is that Women are Powerful™ and Need no Man.

Dany's death is pretty strongly foreshadowed. The blue rose under the wall is paired IIRC with one of the three betrayals. Fire and Blood also seem to be really implying that the Targaryen dynasty has an expiration date-there will be Aegon VI and Danaerys, and possibly Jon to represent Aemond-in a cyclical dance of the dragons. But the dynasty itself will not endure.

(One of the better parts of Martin's writing is how past events IU rhyme but do not repeat).