Game of Thrones Thread

I think Harington can be a bit one-note sometimes, but the only genuinely awful actors were the Sand Snakes. Even then, though, it's hard to know how much to chalk up to the direction. Indira Varma was fabulous in Season 4, and as bad as the rest of the Dornish plot in 5 & 6.
I think it's definitely the direction. The one with the whip was more interesting than the lead in Iron Fist, and the one with the spear has been nominated for an Oscar.
There's just not much to work with when the characters can be summed up as "the butch one", "the smug one", and "the flirty one".
 
Since we're talking Tywin can we appreciate how perfect this scene is? It's under 5 minutes long but illustrates so much about his character. He's ruthless, he has his own sense of honor and duty, he's clearly disappointed in his children and is concerned with the future of his house. A future that wouldn't even be on the horizon if not for his own efforts. I think the only thing weird with this scene is diverting half your force into such a hard assault, but even then it follows his need to see the house itself continue. Tywin was a great complex antagonist and had a great end, succumbing to his own selfish emotions that he chastised others for.


But it also goes towards the central flaw of Tywin: that for all of his micromanagement and lengths he will go to in order to meddling in his kids lives, he pretty much didn't give a fuck about Jamie wasting his life and potential. Especially in light of the season two scene with Tywin/Arya where he talks about the lengths he went to in order to deal with Jaime's dyslexia and ensure his son was able to read.

Dude could go through the with nightmare fuel method of breaking up Tyrion's first marriage, but couldn't freaking use Jamie killing the Mad King to get him banned from the Kingsguard and force him down the path of becoming a nobleman and lord of Casterly Rock/producing babies? Or come up with other ways to get Jamie onto the path of becoming his proper heir?

Given that Tywin was willing to let Casterly Rock go vacant without an heir in it rather than let Tyrion have it, dude couldn't come up with some way to get Jamie in there with some noblewoman of Tywin's choosing? It never made sense that Tywin gave up on his son like that given that he clearly saw Tyrion as not an option as heir.
 
I read somewhere the actress who plays Melisande was to play Cersei, which was the better casting choice. She's also married to someone on the show I forgot who that is though.

Carice van Houton. Don’t think she was married to anyone on the show. She’s with Guy Pearce, they’ve been together for a few years and have a kid.
 
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Dude could go through the with nightmare fuel method of breaking up Tyrion's first marriage, but couldn't freaking use Jamie killing the Mad King to get him banned from the Kingsguard and force him down the path of becoming a nobleman and lord of Casterly Rock/producing babies? Or come up with other ways to get Jamie onto the path of becoming his proper heir?

I don't think the timing ever worked out. After the Rebellion, Robert was king and wanted Jaime around to humiliate him. When Robert died, Jaime was in Stark custody didn't return to King's Landing until after Joffrey died. When Jaime and Tywin spoke after his return, Tywin did ask Jaime to resign, but Jaime refused. Had Tyrion not murdered Tywin shortly thereafter, I have no doubt Tywin would have stripped Jaime of his position ala Barristan Selmy.
 
I think Harington can be a bit one-note sometimes, but the only genuinely awful actors were the Sand Snakes. Even then, though, it's hard to know how much to chalk up to the direction. Indira Varma was fabulous in Season 4, and as bad as the rest of the Dornish plot in 5 & 6.
That fucking accent.
I am Obarrrrra Ssssssand!
 
Both books are fine. Some of my favorite chapters from the series are in Dances with Dragons, like Asha's march to Winterfell, Davos in White Harbor, Bran training with the 3-eyed Raven.. basically everything in the North was solid gold. Dany was boring, but eventually she fucked off to shit in a field and we got some awesome chapters with Barristan as he tries to forestall a coup in her absence.
The problem with book 5 is some of Tyrion's travellogue went on too long and also the editors fucking removed the climax to most of the plot threads to save for the next book.

Not every book can be Storm of Swords. Not every book should be Storm of Swords. You gotta build for a bit before you can knock everything down again.
 
Don't forget "Mama, mama, mama!" Fuck them. Not book sand snakes. I like book sand snakes. Also I'm gonna assume the new Prince of Dorne is Sarella/Arellas. She comes home from the Citadel, sees the mess Ellaria created and is like "fucking dumbass bitch."
Since someone has to say it:

JOO NEED DE BAD POOSSI
 
752065
 
Fuck it. I'll be gutsy and say it.

I LOVE Lena Headley as Cersei and her constant smugfuck smirk. I dunno, I just enjoy her performance even when she's acting like a cartoon villain.

I think most of the performances on the show are totally fine. It's just shitty fanfic material they have to work with.

Lena Headley is my favorite actress on the show. Easily!

I agree that the actors in this show range from great to just fine. I don't dislike any of them.
 
Lena Headley is my favorite actress on the show. Easily!

I agree that the actors in this show range from great to just fine. I don't dislike any of them.

Agreed. If anything it's either bad dialogue or poor direction. Peter Dinklage is beyond my favorite. I love Liam Cunningham as well. John Bradley is good in that the cry he did this season after Dany reveals what she did to his family is a lot different than Sam's normal crying. I like Maisie Williams (unpopular opinion, I know), I get what she's doing. She has become numb over her years of being on the run, and molded into a killer. The Faceless Men even had her play the game of faces where they scrutinized every part of her face so she wouldn't be able to lie. But when she shows emotions, fear, happiness, you can still see genuine talent. Like there's this grin she gets every time she knocks someone off her list, and then there's this really serene smile she shows when she hugs Jon Snow in the first episode of season eight.
 
God, watching those scenes from earlier seasons is fucking painful. It had to be obvious to them by 5 that they weren't up to the task of continuing this show. Like, there's no way you go from that to the drop in quality without that self realization. I know this because they realized this themselves when they admitted by the beginning of season 6 there would only be 2 more even though HBO wanted 10 out of them, and why 'season' (lets be honest, these six episodes aren't a real season) 8 is the last.

Fuck, they probably knew when they were in the middle of season 5 that they could strongly adapt material they had, but doing an outline was basically out of their skillset. I mean, when you look at the four seasons, it makes sense. They were brought in to adapt, and they really did do a good job, 4 seasons of great television. Its not their fault Martin was a stupid fat fuck who didn't focus. Most of the blame really lies on him, honestly. I mean, books take awhile to come out, but over half a decade? You can't predict that shit. They figured they had enough time to wait for another book to give them 2-3 seasons of material which maybe meant a year and a half between seasons so they had four years, maybe five for the final one.

Martin didn't even give them one to work with. I'd say a lot is his fault too. Don't get me wrong, its theirs too for not passing it off because they had to know in Season 5 it was NOT working. You can't go with these books and all these detailed plots and prophecies and chaos-theory consequences, spending time diagramming them out, white-boarding them and then going from all this detail, to what, an outline? How are you supposed to do that? So I expect this was where that frustration and dislike of the show began. And dislike of Martin, because his ass was supposed to put out a book for them to work with.

I don't know, maybe they asked HBO for an out or maybe HBO didn't want them out. Usually show-runners do leave when this sort of thing happens, sometimes a part of their creative team leaves and they're like, 'Can't do this with another person, bye'. I think part of the problem was that Game of Thrones became such a fucking juggernaut, they felt obligated (And obviously the paychecks didn't hurt). HBO also didn't want to risk 'trouble in paradise' by having the show runners leave after there were no more books. Because could you imagine that shit? It would send a very, very clear message 'This show is completely fucked without a thousand page omnibus to guide us through this crap'. Who would you get to fill their place? I mean, money wise, sure. But most creatives are going to hesitate to jump into something like that. And the clusterfuck of plotlines? You'd need like a year to untangle that shit with a new creative. I imagine HBO was unwilling to send that message and risk any sort of delays with the money the show was bringing in.

Also, if you switch D&D out, everyone notices and you get blamed if the next season sucks. So, HBO probably did not, under any circumstances, want them out. Despite the fact that they were out of their depth and clearly could not handle working without book material. I mean, you can just feel them wanting to get out of Game of Thrones. In the later seasons. Its more than the money, maybe. We're contemplating that there was no internal pressure from HBO to keep them going. Like, 'you're here forever'. I mean, finishing Martin's story for him was not the job they signed up for. They were never there to make something wholly original. I mean, they weren't forced to stay it might have been encouragement, more money or even something like 'Nice career you go there, shame if something happened to it'. Or just top shelf booze every day just to force themselves to finish this shit. D&D clearly did eventually have some power though, since HBO wanted 10 and they only did '8'.

Why did season 8 take so long? Because they fucking hated doing it and felt forced to do it. When you're forced to do something you really don't want to, it takes a longer time to complete. It also shows how fucking terrible it is.

I feel like D&D can't be fully blamed for the current state of GoT. When they're given material, they do shine. Somewhat. Without it, they fall apart completely. If you write a great book for them, I have no doubt they can adapt it. Some people are just like that, its like translators. Just think about a translator gets asked to translate the novel series from one language to another. He's great at it, interspersing words that are as close as possible to the original, using the differences in languages creatively, interpreting tone and characterization for a different audience. Then all of a sudden in the middle, 'Oh hey, sorry, but the author is moving slow and the company needs these books out now. You need to write them.' A translator, while skilled creatively, does not write from scratch. So all of a sudden it becomes something great to a garbled fucking mess. That's what happened here.

In my order of blame: GRMM for failing to deliver constantly, HBO for pushing forward even though D&D couldn't handle it and D&D themselves for not just hiring skilled people to help them or requesting them. But they were most certainly not oblivious about their failings. If they were, they would have just done the 10 seasons.

I know, defending D&D at this point is weird, but look at those first few seasons. They were good at their job as translators. I mean, we're all not here because we originally fucking hated the show. But that's all they can really do, translate material from page to screen. They can't do stuff from scratch. And that's ok. In entertainment, you need skilled translators. It only becomes a problem in situations like these, where they run out of material to translate. It becomes an unmitigated clusterfuck.

But I mean, we're through the looking glass here, my fellow Kiwis. If these leaks are true, we are looking at the Mass Effect 3 event of pop-culture. We are looking at normies who are going to fucking melt down when Jon chops Dany in half and Bells drive her insane while her army just rapes and murders everything. My hope it is so horrifying, and so scarring, it pushes normies out of our space. Go back to watching friends and full house, you faggots. Leave our shit to us. Go the fuck away. Even if it doesn't, I'm going to be laughing my ass off as Rome fucking burns.

The fire is just starting my brothers and sisters. And it will be. fucking. glorious.
 
Martin didn't even give them one to work with. I'd say a lot is his fault too. Don't get me wrong, its theirs too for not passing it off because they had to know in Season 5 it was NOT working. You can't go with these books and all these detailed plots and prophecies and chaos-theory consequences, spending time diagramming them out, white-boarding them and then going from all this detail, to what, an outline? How are you supposed to do that? So I expect this was where that frustration and dislike of the show began. And dislike of Martin, because his ass was supposed to put out a book for them to work with.

Disney made $50 million when Carrie Fisher died, purportedly. I'm saying this not because I think they killed her, but because no matter how much a clusterfuck creatively Disney Wars has been thus far, clearly the people behind the scenes were on the ball and planning for plausible contingencies. Notice how the special effects never suck, no matter how painfully derivative or nonsensical the events they're depicting are.

When filming for Season 4 wrapped and there was no solid release date for Winds of Winter, HBO and D&D should have started putting out feelers for writers then, at the absolute latest. Martin is famous for not actually finishing the work on time- just look at the schedule slip for the series up to this point: 3/1/5/6 year gaps, and he's not getting younger, and his health isn't improving. If they just woke up one morning and realized "oh shit, that guy who's famous for not delivering didn't deliver, we need a story right fucking now" they absolutely deserve this outcome. You look for the gas station BEFORE the needle hits E, guys.

Given that HBO, for all their failings, aren't on record as being pants-on-head retarded, I'm guessing there's something else at work here. Either D&D thought they could do it and didn't realize what they were taking on until it was way too late, or there was some contract bullshit with Martin that he had to approve any other writers brought on board, or something.
 
Both @Krokodil Overdose & @Secret Asshole are right but I'm with the let Rome burn mindset. You just knew it was going south when Stannis had his arc mangled. Sure, there were signs before but there was a glimmer of hope Fat Man would publish WoW and D&D would have decent source material. When that didn't happen we all knew it wasn't going to be as good as the early seasons, we just didn't know how bad.

Now we know; it's going to be a Hiroshima level of devastation. So be it.
 
Both @Krokodil Overdose & @Secret Asshole are right but I'm with the let Rome burn mindset. You just knew it was going south when Stannis had his arc mangled. Sure, there were signs before but there was a glimmer of hope Fat Man would publish WoW and D&D would have decent source material. When that didn't happen we all knew it wasn't going to be as good as the early seasons, we just didn't know how bad.

Now we know; it's going to be a Hiroshima level of devastation. So be it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm entirely in favor of watching the 40-car pileup. I don't watch the show, but I took an interest after hearing that the quality went from "great" to "good" to "OK" to "explosive diarrhea in a space suit."
 
I think it's really not that hard to expand upon the given prophesies set in the first book and follow them.
No matter how lazy GRRM is, there is no excuse for teleportation, that awful battle strategy and having Arya kill the big Evil, and having Jaime go back to Cercei.
Series with less budget manage to pull off decent and engaging battles by following historical records.
 
Meh D&D's original content in the show started going downhill after the first season even before they ran out of stuff to adapt. I bet season 5+ would have sucked anyway.
 
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