Game of Thrones Thread

[RomanesEuntDomus]

The Arya twist would actually work in the books, assuming the narrative was from her perspective. Instead of Arya just popping out of nowhere like in the show, you'd actually know what she was thinking and follow her as she made her way from the castle to the godswood. Heck, imagine how much better the show's resolution would have been if the library scene took place as she was making her way to the godswood.

Staggered from the blow to her head, Arya retreats from the courtyard to catch her breath and collect her thoughts.
On the parapet, she sees a group of White Walkers walking down the path to the Godswood.
Arya realizes that it must be the Night King making his way to Bran in the Godswood.
Having grown up in Winterfell, Arya is familiar with the layout of the castle and quickly rushes to the library, hoping to beat the Night King to the Godswood and save her brother.
Unfortunately, the dead have already infiltrated the library and, indeed, most of the castle interior.
Hoping to avoid a prolonged confrontation that would slow her down and cost her her brother's life, she chooses to stealthily avoid detection instead of fighting her way through the library.
Her trip through the library takes longer than she thought, so in a panic, she bursts into a run along the walls of Winterfell, over the heads of the dead on the ground below.
A few narrow misses later, Arya is close enough to the Godswood to be able to watch the confrontation between Theon and the Night King.
After watching Theon fall, Arya pulls out her dagger, knowing that she'll only get one chance to end the Night King's life...

It would have softened the blow, but here's the thing: I was spoilered slightly before the episode, so I knew something was going to happen and I had a strong hunch that it would be Arya... still even knowing that, it felt really fucking stupid and out of place.

Frankly I would have prefered it if Jon and the other important characters had rushed into the godswood and started to fight the White Walkers, while Jon engages the Night King, to eventually pin him to the tree by stabbing him with his sword, grabbing him, so he can't run away and essentially sacrifice himself in this way so Dany gets a clear shot to use dragonfire to burn the Night King. (This, of course, would make it necessary to ditch the Bugs-Bunny like scene, where NK shrugs off Dragonfire before.)
Imagine Jon strolling out of the fire, just like Dany did 2 times by now, thus solidifying that he is indeed Rhaegar's son. I feel that would have been a neat payoff both to the NK storyline as well as establishing for anyone that's not Bran, that Jon is indeed undeniably a Targaryen.
Would also sort of tie in with Azor Ahai sacrificing Nissa Nissa.

I, at least, think that could have been a neat scene. Bonuspoints if Theon, with his last dying breath, would have popped off a lone arrow to injure the Nigth King before bleeding to death sometime during the fight, to give Jon the opportunity to stab the NK. Not a big fan of Theon, but it would have made his death a bit more emotional.
Certainly would have been better than TeleportArya Shenanigans.

 

[iRON-mAn]

The tree is on the other side.

I mean the branches that extend over the top of Bran and the Night King. There's still a question of how she got there but I didn't picture that she just tiptoed in and jumped him from behind.

 

[John Titor]

I read this and it gave me goosebumps.
Fuck.

Up till now, I didn't really know how to feel, but now I do.
Everything could have been better than what we got. Even this, as little sense as it makes, is far superior to canon.
Why? Cause it is actually doing something emotionally, which isn't just "Teleporting Quasimodo stabs endboss in the dick in the most anticlimactic way ever". It has a payoff for a character's personal story. Arya killing the Night King does not feel like a logical point in her story.

It's not even just that Arya gets the kill and nothing hints at her being even vaguely linked to the Azor Ahai legend, it's that the scene is so poorly done, it is painful to think about it. S7 saw entire armies and fleets teleport all over Westeros to be whereever they need to be, in order to do whatever they need to do. Now we have Arya doing the same.
Arya comes out of nowhere, no fucking clue how she got there, past a couple hundred zombies and then kills the BBEG with such a lackluster move.

The most jarring point is that this was also the first time Arya has ever seen a white walker or a wight. I don't think she was ever briefed on screen about them either.

 

[darkhorse816]

The most jarring point is that this was also the first time Arya has ever seen a white walker or a wight. I don't think she was ever briefed on screen about them either.

She was at the war council. She knows about them.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I think a lot of people are unhappy with Arya being the person to take down the night king, beyond just the terrible way that it happened.

Arya's narrative arc is one of vengeance and the necessary dehumanization she must undergo to be able to get there. Her character got fucked by on the one hand surviving the stomach stab wound by the waif (telling us there are no negative consequences for her) and on the other hand by easily re-integrating with her family on her return (she should have been even more autistic in contact with her family than Bran as she finds it impossible to relate to their humanity).

There was real potential for conflict between Sansa and Arya, where on the one hand they're some of the last people alive of their family and on the other, they've always been opposites and should only have grown further apart.

The pay off for her arc should be exactly the one that was posed earlier in the house of the undying; is she no-one or is she arya stark?

Let's assume for a second they didn't lose at winterfell as they should've to bring the quintessential theme of the story to an absolute finale; how will they resolve their conflict with Cersei before the white walkers get there?

The possible killers of the night king would be Jon (his story is one of trying to unite people against the coming danger, a kind of Al Gore if climate change was exactly as he portrayed it), Jaimi (his story is one of seeking redemption for slaying a king), Dani (the quintessential fire counterpart to the night king ice) or even Beric Dondarion, as reanimated champion for the lord of light and who's story is one of fighting for life against death.

There is no real vengeance to take on the night king by Arya and this softens any blow that the narrative could punch into you. If the the night king first killed Jon, then it would have more narrative sense. Particularly if Arya knowingly sacrificed a family member (rather than using one as bait and saving them) to get the night king, then it would give an interesting counterpoint to her quest where she has to lose who she is to take vengeance.

In some sense she had the potential to take some of lady stoneheart's arc, in being consumed by vengeance and losing part of herself to do it.

But instead she is le cool ninja who gets along with everyone.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Arya's narrative arc is one of vengeance and the necessary dehumanization she must undergo to be able to get there. Her character got fucked by on the one hand surviving the stomach stab wound by the waif (telling us there are no negative consequences for her) and on the other hand by easily re-integrating with her family on her return (she should have even more autistic contact with her family than Bran as she finds it impossible to relate to their humanity).

Easily the worst thing about Arya is that she spend a few weeks with the faceless men and now is the ultimate killing machine, more powerful than even the very personification of death and coldness itself, but did not lose anything in return.

When you compare her to Damphair, Patchface, Beric Dondarion, Bran, Jojen Reed and so on, you see that all these people lost something in return of becoming powerful. Yet, Arya is pretty much the same person she always was, only now she's also the most deadly human being to ever live.

Edit: And just cause I've realized it just now: Jon's plot wasn't just entirely pointless since his shtick was preparing everyone to fight against the Army of the Dead, his entire "We all have to unite to fight them!" shtick was completely useless, too. Seems like the North did a decent enough Job to stop the ultimate end-of-all-times doomsday Apocalypse all by themselves. They didn't even need the Dothraki or the Unsullied or the Ironborn. All these people did was pointless. All it would have needed was for Arya to stand next to Bran, waiting to unzip her Katana.
I'm still feeling immeasurable amounts of disappointment.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Edit: And just cause I've realized it just now: Jon's plot wasn't just entirely pointless since his shtick was preparing everyone to fight against the Army of the Dead, his entire "We all have to unite to fight them!" shtick was completely useless, too. Seems like the North did a decent enough Job to stop the ultimate end-of-all-times doomsday Apocalypse all by themselves. They didn't even need the Dothraki or the Unsullied or the Ironborn. All these people did was pointless. All it would have needed was for Arya to stand next to Bran, waiting to unzip her Katana.
I'm still feeling immeasurable amounts of disappointment.

I know one way to encapsulate the sadness and regret over seeing things play out in this way. In the universe D & D have created...


Cersei was right.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

It is really because hack writing, the curse of popularity, or cynical cash exploitation

Embrace the healing power of "and."

 

[cecograph]

Mauler weighs in

Personally, though, I only real care about Preston Jacobs's review. Plus, his side story, cataloguing the adventures of Chad Summerchild, Ser Twenty Goodmen and Jhiqui, is now far more interesting than the actual show.

I don't have anything to contribute myself. I couldn't get through even a quarter of this episode, and, unless I'm convinced that this shitshow has managed to turn itself around in the final episodes, I'm done. Ten years from now, we'll only remember Game of Thrones the same way we remember Lost, and we'll wonder how we all got duped through the 2010s by this naff crap (and I'll extend that to comic book franchises.)

 

[darkhorse816]

They released official pictures for this week’s episode that look really good.

Spoiler

there’s two pictures of them preparing to burn everyone who died during the battle of Winterfell. One side has Team Dany and the other side has team Stark. I’m picturing what’s going to happen when the bodies are set on fire. Two sides separated by a wall of fire.

 

[Mola Ram]

They released official pictures for this week’s episode that look really good.

Spoiler

there’s two pictures of them preparing to burn everyone who died during the battle of Winterfell. One side has Team Dany and the other side has team Stark. I’m picturing what’s going to happen when the bodies are set on fire. Two sides separated by a wall of fire.

There's the subtle symbolism I've come to expect from D&D.

New theory: Tywin Lannister was to intelligence in Westeros as the Night King was to the existence of the Dead.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Mauler's videos are great, even though his more detailed ones are really long.
And after having seen his video and various others, I am so exhausted.
Two decisions utterly ruined this show.
To resolve the Night King plot before the Iron Throne plot and deciding to have Arya 360-noscope the Night King just ruined this whole show. I don't think I will ever rewatch an episode again, since I am that disappointed, even days after watching the episode.

Fuck this shit. How long does it take until I can derive Schadenfreude from this the way I do with TLJ and Star Wars?
So many awesome moments in this show, so many amazing characters, so many gorgeous scenes.
And all that culminating in the most outrageously disappointing let-down.

I hope the fat hack will finish the books before croaking. If they are tolerable, I might at least remember them fondly, but the show is dead to me.

They released official pictures for this week’s episode that look really good.

Spoiler

there’s two pictures of them preparing to burn everyone who died during the battle of Winterfell. One side has Team Dany and the other side has team Stark. I’m picturing what’s going to happen when the bodies are set on fire. Two sides separated by a wall of fire.

Heh.
Maybe they'll go for some super lame reveal that Sansa will attempt to backstab Dany or something equally nonsensical.

 

[Muttnik]

I will reserve judgement until I've seen the finale. The people saying this is as bad as Lost though.....no. Lost was far worse and completely unsalvagable, watch Reetae's review on yt if you don't believe me. We at least might get some nice spectacle and battles out of this. It sucks, but nothing compares.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I will reserve judgement until I've seen the finale.

I wish I could say the same. I really do. But no matter how I look at it, my love for this show is just gone and I don't care at all about what's going to happen to the characters or that silly throne. The worst thing is that there is no credible conflict any longer and there is absolutely no need to fight a huge decisive war against Cersei. It should take Arya roughly one horseride to King's Landing plus maybe 15 minutes to stab Cersei in the neck.
If they go for anything else, my first thought would be "Why doesn't Arya just waltz into the Throne-Room and shank that bitch?", making everything else unbelievable.
And with how the last episode established that strong plot armor, character deaths are no longer a logical conclusion of anyone's actions, they now are dependent on whenever the plot demands it. And by that, I mean when the hackwriters can squeeze the most emotion out of their audience with a cheap shock death.

Maybe that's just my pessimism though. If the last few episodes are absolutely stellar, I might reconsider.

 

[Mola Ram]

I wish I could say the same. I really do. But no matter how I look at it, my love for this show is just gone and I don't care at all about what's going to happen to the characters or that silly throne. The worst thing is that there is no credible conflict any longer and there is absolutely no need to fight a huge decisive war against Cersei. It should take Arya roughly one horseride to King's Landing plus maybe 15 minutes to stab Cersei in the neck.
If they go for anything else, my first thought would be "Why doesn't Arya just waltz into the Throne-Room and shank that bitch?", making everything else unbelievable.
And with how the last episode established that strong plot armor, character deaths are no longer a logical conclusion of anyone's actions, they now are dependent on whenever the plot demands it. And by that, I mean when the hackwriters can squeeze the most emotion out of their audience with a cheap shock death.

Maybe that's just my pessimism though. If the last few episodes are absolutely stellar, I might reconsider.

At this point, given how they oversold and underdelivered on the Long Night, the only way I can see them salvaging the story is if the threat from the Dead is not actually over. I don't necessarily mean the Night King surviving, but perhaps there must always be a Night King, or else winter will never end -- he's an elemental figure necessary to keep various forces in balance. There's really no indication of that beyond wishful thinking, though, and of course it would diminish Arya's YAS SLAY KWEEN stature, so just forget it.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

I was watching the behind-the-scenes of the episode and apparently Dany using her dragon against the army of the dead was not part of the battle plan, but a mistake borne of her rage at seeing the Dothraki get obliterated. I repeat, the only sensible strategic maneuver employed by our protagonists in the battle for Winterfell was a "mistake" according to D&D.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

I will reserve judgement until I've seen the finale. The people saying this is as bad as Lost though.....no. Lost was far worse and completely unsalvagable, watch Reetae's review on yt if you don't believe me. We at least might get some nice spectacle and battles out of this. It sucks, but nothing compares.

Fortunately, I never watched LOST. I had planned to wait until the series finished so that I could go on and bingewatch the entire thing in one go. Then, I heard about how it ended, and I decided to not waste my time. Haven't seen a single episode.

I have some friends who were very much into LOST, and I will never forget their reactions to that show. lol. After this past episode of Game of Thrones, one of my best friends literally told me to my face that she's "starting to get deja vu from how she felt at the end of LOST."

 

[Emperor Julian]

I actually quite enjoyed the last episode, it was quite guilty of having the commanders make terrible tactical or strategic decisions for dramatic effect but the apocalyptic horror of the battle was quite fun. Really did feel as disturbing and dangerous as I'd always imagined a medieval undead war would be since I read the Warhammer book of undead in the 90's

(it also reminded me a bit of the really violent bits of Doom)
I'm not really expecting much at this stage, the show lost momentum last two seasons when the writting went to shit so if anything it can only really exceed expectations with some nice set pieces or character moments. As long as we get a couple more moments like brienne being knighted I'm down with it.

 

[friedshrimp]

You know, it'd be fun to see Doug Walker do an analysis on GOT. Let a w e e n tackle a complicated show based on a complex book series. It'd be fun to see his train of thought. yawn

 

[Feline Supremacist]

I don't think I will ever rewatch an episode again.

Don't do it. I actually did watch some of the early episodes yesterday, starting with S1Ep1 and this White Walker/Night King shit is hyped up from the very beginning. To resolve it with this anime ninja garbage makes everything, from Beric's Lord of Light resurrection to Osha warning Maester Luwin about White Walkers to Craster's Keep irrelevant. Danerys hatching dragons, the comet and magic returning are meaningless side notes that pale in comparison to super stealth assassin revenge killing machine katana wielding Black Mamba Arya Stark.

I know this a RUINED FOREVER post but it did really ruin what had been a decent (despite being overly simplified) adaptation up until last season.