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- Feb 28, 2015
for those who care, i'll be playing the first season on saturday somewhere between 12 to 2pm central time
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Game of Thrones Thread
- Thread starter Judge Holden
- Start date
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- May 19, 2018
This is the picture that comes up in the dictionary when you look up "Human Misery".
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- Jan 31, 2018
This wouldn't have happened if you'd all supported Stannis.
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- Aug 21, 2018
Stannis will always be the true king. At least in my heart
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- Jan 31, 2018
How can the King Who Lost the North or Queen Not Appearing in this Book possibly compete with Stannis I Baratheon, the King Who Cared?Stannis will always be the true king. At least in my heart
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- Feb 25, 2013
BR55
kiwifarms.net
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- May 8, 2017
It's all Renly's fault. If he'd just supported Stannis the way a dutiful brother should have Joffery would have reined for like a month and so much misery would have been avoided.
In hindsight the fact that D&D thought Renly was a good person and would have been a good king was a major warning sign.
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- Mar 23, 2016
Renly wasn't really a bad person, but just like Robert, he would have been shit at being a king.
Robert was a great warrior and I think he's described at being far better at conquering a kingdom than ruling it. Similarly, Renly is a flashy hedonist, that enjoys all the grand spectacle of the court and knighthood, but would have been an equally incompetent ruler, since he'd most likely be more focused on great turneys and festivities than actually managing any aspect of his kingdom.
Stannis, on the other hand, would have been a stern, uncharismatic, but otherwise competent king. I doubt he'd have been beloved, but he would have reigned very efficiently... then again, his idea of justice would have been no fun to deal with for the poorer folk. But out of the three, he's the one who would have been the most dutiful ruler.
D&D thinking Renly would have been a great ruler that unjustifiably gets offed by Stannis is indeed a huge problem, since they seem to think that Renly being a charismatic guy means he'd be a good ruler, when his vice is almost as bad as Robert's.
D&D pretty much fall for the colorful flashy boasting, without really thinking about it from a more logical place. Hell, even Caitlyn Stark saw through Renly's shenanigans... how can the showrunners fall for a fictional character?
BR55
kiwifarms.net
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- May 8, 2017
Well considering they changed Renly's motivation from "Lol I wanna be king because everyone loves me and why the fuck not?" in the books to him being a truly benevolent man who wants to do whats best in the show I think the answer is obvious.
Plus D&D openly hated Stannis so theres that too.
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- Jan 31, 2018
Renly was worse. At least Robert had the sense to actually fight a war instead of stop and feast at every castle he passed and hold tournaments so a month long march turns into a half year ordeal where you eat the country bare and your enemies have time to prepare for you.
Stab You in the Back
kiwifarms.net
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- Sep 3, 2018
It didn't matter. Renly would have taken King's Landing no matter what. He had two great armies under his command. KL only had the city watch.
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- Jan 31, 2018
But he didn't, did he? His leisurely pace allowed all kinds of unforeseen shit to happen.
Yes, reasonably he shouldn't have expected shadowspawn assassins. But Tywin would have had no trouble redeploying to meet him long before he hit King's Landing, and Tyrion would have had his mountain clansmen burning everything along the way once they got nearby. His massive army would be strung out, starving, and led by Renly and Loras I daresay Tywin beats them tactically. Numbers aren't everything.
Every great military blunder in history began with the thought "It really doesn't matter, we're gonna win anyway."
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- Aug 21, 2018
The battle of the Blackwater is probably my favorite part of the books, looking back. When I read it for the first time on a ferry from Ireland to Scotland it was just so vivid in my imagination. The drums, the chain, the wildfire and the assault on the beach were all thoroughly exilerating. The fact that I wanted neither Tyrion nor Stannis, some of my favorite characters, to lose the battle only makes it stand even more as a brilliant story. I hope GRRM finishes the Winds of Winter soon because I expect him to make the Battle of Winterfell with Stannis vs Ramsay of a similar quality. I also expect Aegon to pull an Agincourt against the assembled chivalry of the Reach (but if Agincourt had English war elephants)
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- Jan 31, 2018
Stannis vs. the Boltons lacks sympathetic characters on the opposing side so loses some of that dynamic. But yeah. Unless you're just a huge fan of Lady Dustin.
I guess I also feel a bit bad for Roose for how his son turned out. "You make me rue the day I raped your mother".
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- Jul 25, 2015
Much like Mace stopping to siege Storm's End back during Bobby B's big throwdown, it's an entirely politically motivated move.
In stopping to feast and tourney at Bitterbridge, you're not really losing any men.Importantly, the food from the Reach is no longer going to KL, which means that the populace there are getting hungrier and angrier. Even though Robb Stark has gone full glue-eating levels of stupid and declared himself King of the North and Riverlands, it doesn't really matter as much because they're already fighting the Lannisters, and with Ned Stark and (on the Lannister side) Stafford Lannister dead, they're going to want to kill each other more than you, and they could but whoever's left is going to be bled dry or still having to watch his back.
The entire problem with Renly, isn't that his actions were stupid, but that his choices in letting might settle things over legitimate succession would have led to a bad precedent for Westeros.
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- Jan 31, 2018
Armies on the march are in fact constantly losing men. Not that Renly would know that. 40,000 men shitting in a crude ditch tends to cause issues.
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- Jul 25, 2015
True, but the army hasn't been there the entire time- Renly's been going through the reach gaining support. Also, being on a river will probably help with hygeine issues marginally.
It's not like it really made any difference, but if not for the shadow assassin Renly would have won by sheer force of reachermen numbers.
Technically the Tyrells are the winner; they've been trying to use Renly to get Margaery on the throne since before Robert even died, with Renly checking with Eddard if the portrait of Marg looks anything like dead old Lyanna (he says it doesn't of course) . Which of course means they knew about the incest, which brings up other questions...
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- Jan 31, 2018
I maintain Tywin and Tyrion would have pulled it out. Renly had good veteran commanders under him but he never used them. He gave the vanguard to his boytoy. Loras is brave but he's no great tactical genius. Tywin would have suckered him in like he tried with Bolton and destroyed him.
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- Jul 25, 2015
I mean, potentially? Most of Tywin's victories in the Riverlands including the initial battles against the unconsolidated riverlanders were against numerically inferior foes. Tywin's certainly a very capable commander with capable subordinates like Addam Marbrand or Kevan, but he's not 100% infaliable.
There's more to an army than just the Vanguard (and lets not forget, he was giving Renly the vanguard when going against Stannis' numerically inferior and poorer narrow sea forces- though because of the rush to Storm's End it's mostly cavalry which brings its own issues.) , and Renly's main general Randyll is widely considered the best general in the seven kingdoms.
Not that they can't lose of course. With the fat man's love of using other historical battles, the forces being sent to deal with the Golden Company are probably going to get Agincourt'd or Golden Spurs'd.
There's more to an army than just the Vanguard (and lets not forget, he was giving Renly the vanguard when going against Stannis' numerically inferior and poorer narrow sea forces- though because of the rush to Storm's End it's mostly cavalry which brings its own issues.) , and Renly's main general Randyll is widely considered the best general in the seven kingdoms.
Not that they can't lose of course. With the fat man's love of using other historical battles, the forces being sent to deal with the Golden Company are probably going to get Agincourt'd or Golden Spurs'd.
BR55
kiwifarms.net
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- May 8, 2017
You do realize that the only reason that the North and Riverlands broke away is that Renly declared first?
The expectation was that Stannis would declare first and the Starks and Tullys were ready to support him.
But instead Renly's gonna Renly and so therefore the choice was support Renly and set a bad succession precedent, which this being a Feudal society does matter, or support Stannis and hitch their cause to a guy with a tiny army, the Stormlands going over to Renly instead of Stannis.
Thus the "King In The North" was born.
So yeah Renly's a giant fuck up.
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