General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[jankhater]

I have managed to catch first 20 minutes of shitpost review with Okayu and it is either me starving for any kind of entertainment, or this was... good? The memes were funny (at least to me), Okayu was chill as usual, it all clicked. I have to watch complete VOD now.

It was good. Meme quality was up even with a lot of repetition. Okayu was really enjoying herself, she said "fun" over and over. She seems to have the internet savvy of a grandma, but Coco explained everything for her and then she'd input a little Okayu brand devilishness. There was a live translator who was really on point too.

Meanwhile in one of the many Discord servers (shamelessly stolen from /vt/).
Funny how they value the privacy and anonymity of their researchers for a position dedicated to finding the real life information of vtubers and publicizing it for internet clout.

View attachment 2014905

View attachment 2014912

I've been putting a lot of thought into these leakers/doxxers since tokyo joined our circle of vtuber friendship a while ago and wanted to write up a long autistic post about my thoughts. Really just want to nail down how I feel about it all and see where others stand too. This is not part 1/? of a blue checkmark announcement that we need to have a discussion. I also don't really care what tokyo did in the past since he doesn't seem into it anymore and it no longer looks like he joined to try to stir people up against Poka.

LOWERCASELETTERS said a while ago that he thinks only evil people and lolcows should be doxxed and that seemed like a really good basis. Generally a lolcow does cross that bridge to evil though, otherwise they should probably be given the zoo treatment so their shenanigans don't get tainted by losers telling them there's a jizzbomb on the way. Obviously no vtubers fit the evil bill except maybe the members of CN that were actively setting wolf warriors onto their parent company for who knows what reason. Even then it's a little murky since we know there were some Chinese ops to try to paint them as more involved than they actually were and even people who know Chinese have a hard time sorting through the slang to get to the truth. Regardless, someone dropping the home address and family phone numbers of Okayu gets the fucking rope.

I know there are people who can't stand the word "rrat" because it started on 4chan and therefore must be forced meme communism, but it has a use. If I am calling something a rrat, I don't necessarily want the answer to the question, I'm just having fun speculating and gossiping and getting the truth dropped on it ends the fun. Engaging in rratting isn't looking for doxx, it's shitting around with goofy possibilities.

The face leaks and old content re-uploads aren't really doxx. It's vaguely possible that some crazed gachikoi might recognize a face and something bad happens, but it's probably more statistically likely that the people behind vtubers get harmed for any other reason, so It's not a real worry for me. It's also shitty that post-graduation, a vtuber gets wiped from existence or that karaoke streams need to get privated because copyright is oppressive bullshit, so it's good to have archives available somehow to counteract the garbage rules.

The real crime of the so-called doxx servers and forbidden knowledge channels is pure laziness and clout-chasing. Out of all the clip channels, even the ones who put in minimal effort can be arsed to slap together a thumbnail and most will insert subtitles, edit the clips and insert some images to add a little transformative punctuation. Guys like Polka just upload someone else's content wholesale for monetization or attention and cry when it rightly gets copystruck. Do they understand that their content is sub-reaction clips? The guy who sits there, silently watching a little window of content in the corner is putting in more effort. And it's mostly to draw people to his Discord server, it's like hoping to turn those guys who comment, "Hey, come to Brazil" into a hobby or even career if he's that pathetic. Those attachments above though, that looks like he's hoping to get into rope territory.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts, please share your own.

 

[Sithis]

No, please do not. We do not need drama about some "vtuber uses rightwing terrorist dogwhistle" coming out of VICE or Kotaku.

lol they're too busy Chris Crocker-ing over Biden right now to pay attention to subtle cues by an anime girl to recognize her audience, calm down. 80% of people out there still don't know what the fuck a "vtuber" is and wouldn't care if they did know.

 

[737 MAX Stan Account]

Kiara is going to start spiraling again

Why does the EN girl with my favorite design have to be the sperg out prone of the group?

 

[Blatant hypocrite]

lol they're too busy Chris Crocker-ing over Biden right now to pay attention to subtle cues by an anime girl to recognize her audience, calm down. 80% of people out there still don't know what the fuck a "vtuber" is and wouldn't care if they did know.

To the contrary! As of now they're looking for anything and everything to blame, because the world didn't magically improve overnight as they said it would, and they need something to distract people with. The Great Orange Beacon is no longer there to draw their eyes all day and night.

Even if there were no risk of a news story I would never out myself as a Kiwi on any public-facing account, and I would never demand anyone do the same.

 

[ZMOT]

From the moment this was mentioned passed so much time and we have seen so much evidence to the contrary it's probably safe to say that her not wanting to be horny anymore is itself a ded mem.
With how mood swings work for women it's possible she just hit one of those days when that stream happened.
Or we shouldn't make it broader than "i'm horny" maymay that she is tired of.
Love that talented as fuck woman.

she's probably tired being reduced to the LE HORNI meme. captain has a dirty mind and doesn't mind saying some stuff loudly and playing into it (and that's why we love her), but that doesn't mean she's constantly looking to get off or it's the the only thing she's looking for. it's like being a funny guy and people are legit surprised you're not funny 24/7 to the point being serious is treated as just another joke.

it's probably never gonna die because that's what gets clipped for easy soundbites, so new people coming in thinking it's all there is and want to tease her with it (which in itself isn't bad considering where it's coming from, it just gets tired at some point, see FBK being called a cat), it's simply part of the fame and hard to get rid off - like an actor being typecasted or chappelle getting screamed "rick james bitch!" at in front of his kids. and after all, it did contribute to her notoriety. it's a double-edged sword.

She definitely visits the farms. In which case, (and it's even been said here before, but apparently needs reiterating) stop giving a shit about what people say. Take a page out of Botan's book and just don't care about what some guy says on a message board, and on top of this, you'll never be able to make everyone happy. Even someone like Watame has people who dislike her, which is baffling but just goes to show how true that statement is.

Though maybe try not to overshadow the people you collaborate with like on UNO, but have it be more like Watame's collab which felt a lot more natural. And giving a shoutout to her, and her EU-friendly streaming hours was a nice gesture.

you should care in so far to separate the good from the bad. in the end even negative stuff is good if it's constructive. no one likes to hear "you suck", but on it's own that's just a statement of someone's personal opinion which doesn't mean it's anyone's fault, it doesn't really mean anything. as you said not everybody can be liked by everyone, and the chicken is definitely a more divisive character with personality/behavior that can easily feel obnoxious to some people - but on the other hand, that's also why people like her. that's just how it is.

heck, I can't warm up to the doog, when by all accounts I should when she does stuff like not giving a fuck what the others play (and kudos for that); I wouldn't call it dislike or go out of my way to hate on her (because why, I can just not watch her stuff and don't comment on shit I'm not clued in). even being more aware of all that it's just.. dunno. couldn't explain it. maybe I'd need to see more of her to change my mind, but that's another thing, it's very hard to change someone's preconceived notion, and a lot of people are simply too ignorant for that, like "don't wanna watch her, she sucks" - which isn't necessarily wrong, but then isn't really right either.

I still dont get why she is numberfagging so bad, heck she already has beated like 70% of hololive in sheer numbers, dont get greedy birb that always get bad pretty fast and i expect you lasting a couple of years in this hole

Also play Narita boy and tell Ina to play Spiritfarer

coming up in a highly competitive environment during your formative years and to the point shit got real bad it can follow you for years, if not ever. when you constantly get pushed to bring the numbers it's inevitable that you try to be in the spotlight as the center of attention simply out of fear to not get culled and be safe from all the backstabbing, bitchiness and the other crabs in the bucket. now imagine that as a baka gaijin on top.

the other thing is you can't really turn off fear, as much as you can rationally argue with yourself (which most people can't to begin with). because like I said that's the shit that stays with you, even subconsciously.

it's one of the reasons I give the chicken some slack, as probably lot of her fans who know more of her background do as well. and while people are willing to give her that leeway lot of people don't know and only see her "as is", which isn't wrong either; can't expect people to know everything nor should they be required to. that's why it's usually a bad idea to drag stuff like that on stream, even as a joke (not that it's that funny to begin with).

@Blatant hypocrite already summed it up pretty good, hololive is not that kind of competition, it's not how it works (at least from what we can see). if you have worries ask your mates and talk with them about it, the chance of them using it against you is slim to nil, at some point you have to trust someone enough to confide in them. as much as your fans like you they're not the best people to discuss it with (as a whole, on stream) and it gives the haters more things to hate. godspeed!

 

[(iIivVvbBb-iIimMmvVv)]

She definitely visits the farms. In which case, (and it's even been said here before, but apparently needs reiterating) stop giving a shit about what people say. Take a page out of Botan's book and just don't care about what some guy says on a message board, and on top of this, you'll never be able to make everyone happy. Even someone like Watame has people who dislike her, which is baffling but just goes to show how true that statement is.

Though maybe try not to overshadow the people you collaborate with like on UNO, but have it be more like Watame's collab which felt a lot more natural. And giving a shoutout to her, and her EU-friendly streaming hours was a nice gesture.

Admittedly, here everything she does gets blown out of proportions, like the fat joke. Where if you heard it you would think she had a mental breakdown and had to mute herself to cry. When in reality it was just her obviously playing into the joke.

Pretty much this. Look, It is beating a dead horse, but the biggest issue that I have with some of the Kiara-hate-posts here is just how magnified it is, while simultaneously forgetting that the JP talent does the same thing. Look, I get you hate the content, you hate the voice, etc. . . but don't keep dredging up small examples of things and say: this why she is the worst thing in Hololive. . . it's dumb. The overshadowing is an issue, but instead of being a normal person and chalking it up to her having a relatively extroverted personality, everyone goes full tilt into self-centered bitch territory. Do you not hear Subaru herself screaming over compatriots in collabs? Or the constant Rushia crocodile-tears or meltdowns? This shit is normal. People are, believe it or not, actually like this without ulterior motives. There are valid criticisms though, but lately it is just rehashed freakouts doomposts.

That said, I will throw out my own advice if she is reading this:
1. The overshadowing thing, is something you should work on. I do not think you are being malicious or manipulative like some people here believe. But you need to realize that while you might not think of yourself as an extrovert, you have a very boisterous and loud personality. I know what that is like, I grew up with Italians. When you collab, you need to be aware of that, because it can be a lot for the audience and seem overbearing in comparison to whoever you are with. It sucks, but that is the game.
2. Don't give a shit about the cursing or any of that. . . that's idiotic.
3. With the UNO collab, a lot of people were put off by the baby thing. . . I was one of them. You laid it on way too thick. When you want to do something, with your personality, always take a quick second and reign it in a bit. Jokes get stale real fast, and ones like that are definitely one of them. You actually got a lot better at it when you ditched the actual baby-talk and were just talking with a funny voice. You dialed back the joke, and it got better by a mile.
4. This may or may not be the case, but it is still something to consider. Don't let critics or haters change the way you want to stream, but take it into account. The same goes for fans, don't let what the fans want push you toward acting a certain way, or feel you need to do something because it is expected. They're a mob and they will always call for more of the same in it's extreme. . . look at Marine and her chat.

The real crime of the so-called doxx servers and forbidden knowledge channels is pure laziness and clout-chasing. Out of all the clip channels, even the ones who put in minimal effort can be arsed to slap together a thumbnail and most will insert thumbnails, edit the clips and insert some images to add a little transformative punctuation. Guys like Polka just upload someone else's content wholesale for monetization or attention and cry when it rightly gets copystruck. Do they understand that their content is sub-reaction clips? The guy who sits there, silently watching a little window of content in the corner is putting in more effort. And it's mostly to draw people to his Discord server, it's like hoping to turn those guys who comment, "Hey, come to Brazil" into a hobby or even career if he's that pathetic. Those attachments above though, that looks like he's hoping to get into rope territory.

I said this before too, and I agree one hundred percent. They aren't doxxing per sey, but the community that they create. . . the culture of his little discords are breeding grounds for the kind of people that will go down that path. Ranking structures based on provided information, tiers of information, etc. . . these people run these discords like The Church of Scientology. And that kind of incentive to push for more and more information for clout, will push the more extreme followers (who flock to these places) to go the extra mile because that culture accepts and promotes them. You can't pull that stuff so much here or even on the chans because those communities aren't incentivizing it like that, and people would be quick to shut you down like the Gura-Freak.

Edit: Suisei is watching Aqua play and cheering her on in chat. . . It is 0300 over there. I want that team to happen so bad.

 

[AlphaKilo]

The real crime of the so-called doxx servers and forbidden knowledge channels is pure laziness and clout-chasing. Out of all the clip channels, even the ones who put in minimal effort can be arsed to slap together a thumbnail and most will insert subtitles, edit the clips and insert some images to add a little transformative punctuation. Guys like Polka just upload someone else's content wholesale for monetization or attention and cry when it rightly gets copystruck. Do they understand that their content is sub-reaction clips? The guy who sits there, silently watching a little window of content in the corner is putting in more effort. And it's mostly to draw people to his Discord server, it's like hoping to turn those guys who comment, "Hey, come to Brazil" into a hobby or even career if he's that pathetic. Those attachments above though, that looks like he's hoping to get into rope territory.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts, please share your own.

The creation of these Discord channels probably happens for a mundane reason, sharing infos in form of pictures or links to archive while discussing about roommate infos. However, this devolves into a social clique where people from all places tried to join the sekrit kool klub and it's basically Eternal September for the server. I joined Tokyo's server many moons ago and it's pretty chill. But now? These doxx servers are full of lazy SEA weebs spamming and sending unfunny memes again and again.

At least you have a functional admin/mods, or do you? People saw that "Hey, you can post something out of /jp/ and you will gain subscribers!" and started making their own channels. While some of them can be reasoned with, some like Poka are insane. He fucked up after sending Nene that superchat and keeps doubling down on the whole whiteknight stuff and guess what? He is still active and there's a lot of people that will lick his boots so that they could gain clout in a weird-ass server.

 

[Friend computer]

I can agree with much that is said here, and if you kiara reads this, here's my suggestion:

Turn down your lust for pekora several steps, because when fellow livers from the jp branch makes fun of it on air, that's when I at least would do a double take.

 

[Namesarehardtocomeupwith]

Imagine wasting time effort posting about Kiara when Matsuri stream herself drowning in the bath. Vtuber bathwater when?

 

[(iIivVvbBb-iIimMmvVv)]

Imagine wasting time effort posting about Kiara when Matsuri stream herself drowning in the bath. Vtuber bathwater when?

Maybe she had one of those Bathtub member streams. . . I venture not there for fear my liver will give out from all the Lyger Kawaiis.

 

[Green Oil]

Maybe she had one of those Bathtub member streams. . . I venture not there for fear my liver will give out from all the Lyger Kawaiis.

I stumbled her bath stream in twitcast year ago and I have no idea why I saw that stream.

 

[The One And Only ALTE]

Meanwhile in one of the many Discord servers (shamelessly stolen from /vt/).
Funny how they value the privacy and anonymity of their researchers for a position dedicated to finding the real life information of vtubers and publicizing it for internet clout.

View attachment 2014905

View attachment 2014912

We don't have much room to talk, given the nature of this site. I think the difference is that here there is zero sympathy for anyone who *does* get discovered. It is funny that polka can't seem to quite connect the dots that people working as hard to doxx him as he works to doxx others is entirely fair.

Bitches and moans when Luna serves him a copyright strike or a C&D, but pretends to be a lawyer to scare other people to stop doxxing him. Any other person would just create a new channel but this clout chasing mongoloid really wants to stay in the limelight as long as possible. Hope it bites him in the ass.

There's always someone crazier, more obsessed, and with less to lose than you on the internet, and he's going to learn that.

She definitely visits the farms. Take a page out of Botan's book and just don't care about what some guy says on a message board, and on top of this, you'll never be able to make everyone happy. Even someone like Watame has people who dislike her, which is baffling but just goes to show how true that statement is.

Though maybe try not to overshadow the people you collaborate with like on UNO, but have it be more like Watame's collab which felt a lot more natural. And giving a shoutout to her, and her EU-friendly streaming hours was a nice gesture.

I actually agree with this advice, though I'm not certain she visits the farms. As someone who has said plenty about her, I don't actually think she did anything terrible on that Uno stream. It was a series of small mistakes that added up. She didn't anticipate how long some of these punishments could last, and whether or not the guests or the viewers would mind that.

The other girls weren't really doing their punishments with much enthusiasm, so I feel like she tried twice as hard to encourage them. The problem was her jokes weren't landing and it felt like the other girls were getting uncomfortable. Learning to read the room and manage your guests are skills that take practice for an entertainer. Even professional comedians sometimes bomb sets; the key is learning from the experience.

I think it would be a mistake for her to take away from this "it was because I mentioned poop" or "it was because I cursed" because neither of those things was really the issue. Good humor rides the edge of acceptability, and comedians have to learn to navigate that. I can't find a decent clip of it, but if anyone has ever seen the clip where Gilbert Gottfried abandons a 9/11 joke that is getting boos from the crowd to do "The Aristocrats" joke (kind of a meme-y non joke that takes a long time to tell and is incredibly filthy), its a great example of what I mean.

Or, you know, stop being an insufferable piece of shit, with no regard for those who collabs with? I am so sick and tired of having her interrupt and talk over everyone else in collabs, because she only gives a fuck about herself, and everyone else is just there to help her grow.

Its an acquired skill that she needs to get better at.

In this video Coco mentions she watches videos of famous professional hosts and hostesses to see what they do to manage conversations and make people feel entertained and at ease. She's smart enough to know that this isn't something everyone is born being good at, so she actively practices. I think Kiara should do the same.

 

[ZMOT]

Imagine wasting time effort posting about Kiara when Matsuri stream herself drowning in the bath. Vtuber bathwater when?

>no submarine ping noise
missed chance/10

and the strongest idol is already on it:

EDIT:
never noticed it before, but
>haachama feet water
lost, you magnificent bastard.

LOWERCASELETTERS said a while ago that he thinks only evil people and lolcows should be doxxed and that seemed like a really good basis.

disagree, because that reeks of "no bad tactics, only bad people". it's not even a "if you do it you'll be just like them" or MUH HONOR thing, but a matter of escalation, once that's the norm it only gets worse.
that's why you disown it, which isn't easy with all the spastics around, but it's not about "winning", having principles will only benefit you in the long run, even when you really want those fuckers to have their comeuppance. tell the tards to fuck off and ignore them, since most of it is attentionwhoring and clout chasing anyway, and it will wither and die on it's own, even more when the community itself starts to frown upon shit like that. it's not easy but not impossible either.

In this video Coco mentions she watches videos of famous professional hosts and hostesses to see what they do to manage conversations and make people feel entertained and at ease. She's smart enough to know that this isn't something everyone is born being good at, so she actively practices. I think Kiara should do the same.

dammit stop turning me into an harder coco simp than I already am.

 

[Cubanodun]

it's one of the reasons I give the chicken some slack, as probably lot of her fans who know more of her background do as well. and while people are willing to give her that leeway lot of people don't know and only see her "as is", which isn't wrong either; can't expect people to know everything nor should they be required to. that's why it's usually a bad idea to drag stuff like that on stream, even as a joke (not that it's that funny to begin with).

She has to remove the mentality that she is on a Idol unit, this is Hololive, there is no "center" or "units" that steal the spotlight of others like it happen in normal Idol stuff, but every single of them had their own public that sometimes get shared between them

Spoiler: In other news

I won the Spelunker race after struggling for 2 hours going to do the other 2 runs when i come back



This game is a legend because how much ass it is, old school of "the game is shorter that it looks because is ass" like Dragon lair for the NES, only 1 save state at the beginning to go fast after the game over screen, and used that one to save for the second run.. that is just the same thing all over again but you cant see the keys

 

[Namesarehardtocomeupwith]

Now that's sad. Someone could probably write a 14 pages psychoanalysis about the pain behind that smile.

 

[Potatohead]

The other girls weren't really doing their punishments with much enthusiasm, so I feel like she tried twice as hard to encourage them. The problem was her jokes weren't landing and it felt like the other girls were getting uncomfortable.

Disagree with this. Calli wanted to play into the “speak like a cowboy” and Gura the meowing verbal tic. It just so happened that the former’s punishment didn’t last long, due to Gura speedrunning the round, and the latter still nyaa’d because she likes it to the point of potentially asking for cat ears for her second costume from amashiro/nacho. The other girls also played into it that round, meow.

The problem with Uno, imo, was twofold: 1) They weren’t familiar with the special rules they turned on beforehand (ie 0/7 handswapping, drawing until you get a playable card, interrupting turn order) Having played Uno with groups both large and small, these rules make the game fun and fast, but not if you don’t understand them. Also combining draw until you can play with the other rules was a terrible idea, and ideally something they should have tested beforehand. Dunno if JPs also go into collabs blind on the game they do, but playtesting games before a collab (like Gura did with Anya, before their on-stream collab) can never hurt.

The second is Kiara herself trying too hard to fill dead air to prevent things from getting awkward (in of itself being a different flavor of awkward) and maintain engagement, which drowns out the others in an EN group collab. Which is strange, because in one on one collabs she’s able to pick up on her partner’s energy and match them extremely well, whether its with EN or JPs. This is something I think Kiara is aware she needs to work on, and she’s said as much in her most recent stream.

Also there’s no way in hell she comes here. Thinking she visits /vt/ is already stretching the imagination, no individual should go there without understanding exactly how the board works and this site’s reputation is a touch worse than the internet hate machine.

disagree, because that reeks of "no bad tactics, only bad people". it's not even a "if you do it you'll be just like them" or MUH HONOR thing, but a matter of escalation, once that's the norm it only gets worse.

Imo its more hearkening back to the Golden Rule - treat others the way you want to be treated. Poka wants to spread doxxshit and fuck with the fans of a Holo? He shouldn’t be surprised when he himself is doxxed and fucked with. And it’s not like things can escalate much more, anons from hlgg regularly announce when they’ve gotten into a doxxcord and/or kill one with minimal pushback from the users of said doxxcords and overwhelming approval from other anons.

 

[Fcret]

Kiara definitely knows about the farms because Keeki read PULL and there was pretty sizeable cross-pollination between PULL and KF even before Josh granted asylum to PULL's userbase. Anyway, Kiara, if you're reading this, stop giving a shit. You have an autistic cult of sycophants, so it's not like you're hard-up for clout. Just accept that the oshifags are probably going to be buttmad whenever someone doesn't have perfect chemistry with their oshi and move on. It's really not about you.

Moving on from that,

Fubuki continued Hollow Knight last night. She's already on part 6, but what's fascinating about part 5 is that she apparently snapped at JP chat for backseating (1:08:38 is the timestamp). I wonder if this is why chat replay is disabled.

 

[Cubanodun]

Kiara definitely knows about the farms because Keeki read PULL and there was pretty sizeable cross-pollination between PULL and KF even before Josh granted asylum to PULL's userbase. Anyway, Kiara, if you're reading this, stop giving a shit. You have an autistic cult of sycophants, so it's not like you're hard-up for clout. Just accept that the oshifags are probably going to be buttmad whenever someone doesn't have perfect chemistry with their oshi and move on. It's really not about you.

Moving on from that,

Fubuki continued Hollow Knight last night. She's already on part 6, but what's fascinating about part 5 is that she apparently snapped at JP chat for backseating (1:08:38 is the timestamp). I wonder if this is why chat replay is disabled.

Chat replay is there, sometimes youtube take a while

 

[Fcret]

Chat replay is there, sometimes youtube take a while

lmao I literally refreshed right before making my post to see if it was there and it wasn't. It had to have to just shown up.

 

[jankhater]

disagree, because that reeks of "no bad tactics, only bad people". it's not even a "if you do it you'll be just like them" or MUH HONOR thing, but a matter of escalation, once that's the norm it only gets worse.

That's a good point. I'm not a fan of spreading personal info around, but on the internet, all it takes is someone willing to do it and you giving them info to spread. It's already escalated to being a ubiquitous threat so moral arguments against it at any level don't really hold water. The idea that only evil people should be doxxed brings in a little morality through the backdoor though in that it is a statement on the person being immoral enough to make would-be doxxers put forth the effort.

My thoughts on the subject are a work in progress though, that's just where I currently stand on how doxxing can be less shitty. We're also posting on the most pro-doxx forum in the world, so there's a lot to be said about it that would be counterproductive.