General GunTuber thread

[WhoBusTank69]

A copycat wouldn't be coming here to make reasonable-sounding arguments to begin with. They'd come here to get Phagan to make Karl look sane by comparison.

"Stop talking about things other people post online" is getting there.

 

[Trig.Point]

There are maybe a dozen people that regularly post in this thread and the gun thread. I refuse to believe anything talked about here gets traction elsewhere in the gun-sphere. We are not the autistic illuminati of guns or anything else.

I get the impression that a lot of the posters here, particularly those with technical knowledge about weapons, participate in online discussions on the wider internet using different accounts.

I think he should be commended for wanting to engage with criticisms and defend his product.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I get the impression that a lot of the posters here, particularly those with technical knowledge about weapons, participate in online discussions on the wider internet using different accounts.

I think he should be commended for wanting to engage with criticisms and defend his product.

I agree. It's not always we see an occasional thread subject showing up and not immediately sperging out. That's commendable.

I still think the KP-15 is a gimmicky piece of kit (nothing wrong with selling yourself on novelty, though), but I'm not going to throw guilt by association at Phagan because he's friends with Karl or whatever. The guy is selling a product. It thrives or dies on its own merits. And after all, from what my relatives in Arizona told me, being friends with Karl is punishment enough.

 

[Trig.Point]

I agree. It's not always we see an occasional thread subject showing up and not immediately sperging out. That's commendable.

I still think the KP-15 is a gimmicky piece of kit (nothing wrong with selling yourself on novelty, though), but I'm not going to throw guilt by association at Phagan because he's friends with Karl or whatever. The guy is selling a product. It thrives or dies on its own merits. And after all, from what my relatives in Arizona told me, being friends with Karl is punishment enough.

If you ever browse the Spoony thread you'll notice the real haters bordering on complete A-Logs are those that used to be fans and watch his content.

Karl is no where near Spoony levels of self pity and dysfunction, and it's important to remember that he is capable of making decent videos.

Videos like Pancho Villa's raid on Columbus New mexico.

Or a massacare at a POW camp in Utah.

Karl at one point had an eye for choosing topics that were genuinely interesting, even if he had a wooden delivery and poor production values. His problem is less that he's gotten woke or started associating with weirdo's. It's that he's lazy.

His video on the Danziger Bridge shooting could have gone viral (as it was it got 170k views), however the sound on the video is pretty poor. Remember that Karl is a professional YouTuber there's really no excuse for it.

Anyway to end on a better note, if you're going to do a video to promote a GoFundme, Karl leads the way in showing how it should be done.

 

[Corn Flakes]

If you ever browse the Spoony thread you'll notice the real haters bordering on complete A-Logs are those that used to be fans and watch his content.

Karl is no where near Spoony levels of self pity and dysfunction, but it's important to remember that he is capable of making decent videos.

Videos like Pancho Villa's raid on Columbus New mexico.

Or a massacare at a POW camp in Utah.

Karl at one point had an eye for choosing topics that were genuinely interesting, even if he had a wooden delivery and poor production values. His problem is less that he's gotten woke or started associating with weirdo's. It's that he's lazy.

His video on the Danziger Bridge shooting could have gone viral (as it was it got 170k views), however the sound on the video is pretty poor. Remember that Karl is a professional YouTuber there's really no excuse for it.

Part of the issue is seeing the contrast between current InRange, which currently feels very scatterbrained and very Q&A-heavy in its subjects, and Forgotten Weapons (which despite pervasive sound issues is always steadily improving in technical terms). InRange was always more of a "variety" channel for sure, but Karl does not do very well when left to his own devices. You can see it even in the old InRange videos: whenever Karl had someone to talk to while filming, the videos were consistently better in terms of pacing and delivery than his solo videos. His vignettes are very informative, but again... the pacing and delivery tend to be flat.

So, even if Karl weren't sperging out on social media and fraternizing with a crowd that would immediately gut the 2nd Amendment in order to keep guns out of the hands of "icky" people if they had half a chance, his content is clearly falling far short of what it could be. Karl needs a competent partner both in front of the camera and behind it. Regardless of the subject matter he needs someone interesting to play off of. And, no offense meant to @SinistralRifleman, Phagan ain't quite it. Knowledgeable? For sure. Has his delivery improved since starting out? Yes. But man these two together are drier than a bucket of sand.

Anyway to end on a better note, if you're going to do a GoFundme video, Karl leads the way in showing how it should be done.

Indeed. That was a good one.

 

[HumptiDouji]

I believe him when he says it's his favorite.

I wonder if he's exaggerating a little, playing it up to make the product look good, but ultimately it's still obvious he's fond of the rifle. He was part of designing it, and it has the exact qualities he's looking for with a 2-Gun rifle.

There is a reason for every design decision on the KP-15. You may not agree with some of the design choices on the KP-15; but every decision is a balancing act of features, function, cost, and execution.

I think a monolithic plastic lower is a great idea for those looking to shave ounces and make a lightweight build, and certainly there's advantages in cost. My issues are more from the production, I've seen a fair few lowers with issues like sloppy fitting and poor symmetry, not all of them, not even the majority of them, but enough that it makes me skeptical of it as a product. The design itself I think is ok.

Any future plans for a corresponding upper receiver? I think it could be done.

The last thing I publicly commented on was saying Kyle Rittenhouse was probably legally justified based on the video evidence in 2020 and I got banned from SomethingAwful for it.

And that makes it all the more funny that a Goon tried to shoot up an anti-lockdown protest a couple of weeks back (he only lightly injured an ethnic minority he was trying to murder). A huge chunk of SA's userbase argued that there wasn't really anything wrong with what he did because they were allegedly white supremacists, and that there was nothing wrong with the fact that he had partaken in threads where he and others were constantly riling each other up and talking about hatred and their fantasies about political violence.

You must have seen that ban coming when you hit post.

 

[HelpingNoone]

I was a preordered of the WWSD up until Karl's 2020 sperging.

The InRange community didn't help. Good luck questioning ANY aspect of the WWSD in a critical light. Party because of the way Karl hyped it up as the be-all-end-all rifle. Partly because of the cult-like nature of the fanbase. And partly because of the way an employee responds to people with issues on places like Reddit.

-Think the delivery date is optimistic? "You don't know what your talking about"
-Got an issue with your safety? "Boo you for publicly posting and shedding negative light on WWSD"
-Think there are some teething issues with the molding/welding? "Fake News".
-Hell you can't even point out that an employee made a sarcastic takedown pin response in peace anymore.

This mentality is not just on the InRangeTV subreddit. It's spreading into GunDeals, arfcom, etc. as more and more people buy into it.

My main gripe here has been an opinion. I don't think the oz weight savings of a polymer lower vs aluminum are worth it. I was originally sold by Karl and Ian this being THE WAY you do a lightweight rifle. Once I started doing the math I realized the upper/barrel/handguard are where you really start saving lbs.

It's a brand new product. It's an injection molded part with mechanical features. I know the monumental task it is as someone who does every step of the molding process form CAD to CAM to running the molds. So lets not pretend it's perfect and build a community of people who defends it as such....

 

[White Devil]

My main gripe here has been an opinion. I don't think the oz weight savings of a polymer lower vs aluminum are worth it.

You have to understand the mentality of these people who think they're actual operators / training for war. Any kind of weight saved, despite the end user not being able to run a mile in kit without having a heart attack, will make them the bestest shooter at the 2/3 gun competition because ???

These are the same people who bought Agency Arms / ZEV fucked guns thinking that the guns will turn them into Jerry Miculek overnight.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

will make them the bestest shooter at the 2/3 gun competition because ???

I mean it probably is a good gamer gun though.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

@SinistralRifleman
Have you considered doing a "How It's Made" video, complete with the correct music & similar narration? That'd help with proof-of-life marketing, even if it's derivative. Just add some humor & humanity; I also know guys who want a KP-15 simply because it was designed by Russ, and not some faceless conglomerate or boutique shop.

Any kind of weight saved, despite the end user not being able to run a mile in kit without having a heart attack, will make them the bestest shooter at the 2/3 gun competition because ???

You're right, the mere ounces saved wouldn't be noticed by someone who does it for a living; but they probably are noticable for the average civilian end-user, simply because they're not in shape, and/or carrying an extra 60lbs of ammo & gear. The difference between a 5lb & 5.5lb rifle is certainly noticable & meaningful for someone with limited strength.

Even when I did do it for a living, I wouldn't have noticed if I was carrying a WWSD or an A4 carbine at the end of a 10 mile ruck. The only thing that made a difference was to not get stuck humping the 249 or spare barrels.

 

[White Devil]

You're right, the mere ounces saved wouldn't be noticed by someone who does it for a living; but they probably are noticable for the average civilian end-user, simply because they're not in shape, and/or carrying an extra 60lbs of ammo & gear. The difference between a 5lb & 5.5lb rifle is certainly noticable & meaningful for someone with limited strength.

Even when I did do it for a living, I wouldn't have noticed if I was carrying a WWSD or an A4 carbine at the end of a 10 mile ruck. The only thing that made a difference was to not get stuck humping the 249 or spare barrels.

Which is why it's continually amusing to me that these people always focus on the latest toys and gadgets rather than the literal cheapest option; personal fitness.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love new toys and technology. I just get a kick out of fatasses trying to play soldier too.

 

[SinistralRifleman]

I think a monolithic plastic lower is a great idea for those looking to shave ounces and make a lightweight build, and certainly there's advantages in cost. My issues are more from the production, I've seen a fair few lowers with issues like sloppy fitting and poor symmetry, not all of them, not even the majority of them, but enough that it makes me skeptical of it as a product. The design itself I think is ok.

Any future plans for a corresponding upper receiver? I think it could be done.

You must have seen that ban coming when you hit post.

In ~3months we produced more monolithic polymer receivers than Cav Arms did in 10 years and more than GWACS did in 8. This is the first time real production principles were applied to the concept. The worst of KE’s parts are still better than the best Cav Arms made; and customers who own both say that regularly.

A large number of process improvements happened over the first 10,000 parts. One notable one being improved vibration welder fixtures that holds alignment between the two halves better.

Around serial number 3,000 we implemented a probing cycle before the CNC trimming operations and drilling of the fire control pin holes. We also eventually eliminated the holes from molding entirely for more consistency across colors. The different colors all mold/shrink/weld differently.

We’re into the 33,000s serial number wise now.

Injection molded uppers in an AR15 present more problems than a lower. Notably heat transfer. Also the way the lugs sit inside the lower it’s impossible to beef them up. If you use metal inserts in these designs it starts to defeat the purpose of doing plastic in the first place. Also plastic rail isn’t great for holding zero.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

So a serious question for you Phagan, have you paged through the rest of the thread or are you just focused on the here and now? I'm genuinely curious what your thoughts are on some of the other things discussed here if you feel like sharing.

 

[SinistralRifleman]

I mean it probably is a good gamer gun though.

3 gun gamer guns usually have the following:
A rifle length gas system
Adjustable gas port or metered gas port
A comp or brake
A low mass carrier

I have gamer guns, the WWSD isn’t it with a flash hider, mid gas port to run steel case, and a full mass carrier.

2GACM style stages focus on shoot move shoot move and sweeps of targets vs hosing close range paper or getting into a position and shooting a lot of stuff at range, so the WWSD is better in that environment.

 

[SinistralRifleman]

So a serious question for you Phagan, have you paged through the rest of the thread or are you just focused on the here and now? I'm genuinely curious what your thoughts are on some of the other things discussed here if you feel like sharing.

I did but quoting stuff from weeks or months ago and engaging with it now, doesn’t seem like the normal form of conduct on boards. Kind of like necroposting.

 

[White Devil]

I did but quoting stuff from weeks or months ago and engaging with it now, doesn’t seem like the normal form of conduct on boards. Kind of like necroposting.

Humor us. I could personally give a fuck less about your plastic rifle, I'm not in your demographic and have no interest in it whatsoever but I would like to see your opinions and hot takes pertaining to other subjects.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Which is why it's continually amusing to me that these people always focus on the latest toys and gadgets rather than the literal cheapest option; personal fitness.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love new toys and technology. I just get a kick out of fatasses trying to play soldier too.

To Karl's credit, he did a few videos on personal fitness and how it related to his specific brand of 2-gun match. Unfortunately, these days it seems Ian is keeping up with his exercise regime better.

 

[SinistralRifleman]

I compete in Armored Division because it’s harder and more intellectually interesting having equipment work as a total system. When I don’t do armored these days I’ll do irons because it’s harder in a different way.

If I didn’t compete I would have zero motivation to exercise and I’d be even fatter.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I did but quoting stuff from weeks or months ago and engaging with it now, doesn’t seem like the normal form of conduct on boards. Kind of like necroposting.

You're not wrong but even so.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

The worst of KE’s parts are still better than the best Cav Arms made; and customers who own both say that regularly.

From what I've seen personally, this is accurate. But then again, the standard was pretty low/nonexistent previously. I was always struck by Cav Arms as being run by someone indifferent at best.

A large number of process improvements happened over the first 10,000 parts. One notable one being improved vibration welder fixtures that holds alignment between the two halves better.

An injection & blow molding shop I worked for prototyped & made Corvette engine shrouds; I remember it took over 10k parts just to achieve something like 70% GO rate initial QA/QC, and a bunch always failed to guage after the secondary operations. They weren't even complicated or hard-wearing parts; we worked on that press & molds for months, and this wasn't a small business with limited resources.