General GunTuber thread

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Uranus Pink said:
If they're so hell bent on torture testing, why don't Ian and Karl put their money where their mouth is and donate a few of their WWSD rifles to the U.S. Army for testing?
Click to expand...
Funny idea, but doomed from the start. Why would the US Army waste their time and money testing a gamer gun when their own M4s still work just fine?
 
Corn Flakes said:
Funny idea, but doomed from the start. Why would the US Army waste their time and money testing a gamer gun when their own M4s still work just fine?
Click to expand...
My previous post was in regard to the Dragon Scale body armor which the WWSD fanboys been following an eeriely similar pattern. What I had forgotten U.S. Army itself was genuinely curious about it as soldiers were buying it on their own. And thus went about torture testing it to see if the manufacturer claims hold up and found it wanting as it utterly failed in almost every category. Which force a cease and desist call out to every serviceman who owned it to stopped using it.
 
Uranus Pink said:
My previous post was in regard to the Dragon Scale body armor which the WWSD fanboys been following an eeriely similar pattern. What I had forgotten U.S. Army itself was genuinely curious about it as soldiers were buying it on their own. And thus went about torture testing it to see if the manufacturer claims hold up and found it wanting as it utterly failed in almost every category. Which force a cease and desist call out to every serviceman who owned it to stopped using it.
Click to expand...
Who was that one General that flat out disobeyed that and outfit his personal bodyguards with it? I remember this was a huge thing in the early 2000s with a lot of intrigue.
 
White Devil said:
Who was that one General that flat out disobeyed that and outfit his personal bodyguards with it? I remember this was a huge thing in the early 2000s with a lot of intrigue.
Click to expand...
That was Chiarelli.
I forgot how much of a shitshow Dragon Skin was - people were pissed on the same level as 5.7 being rejected.
 
White Devil said:
I remember message boards of the time treating it like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Click to expand...
You had a lot of hopefuls wanting to enlist so they could wear ultra light Dragon Skin while swapping barrels on their XM8 and practicing quickdraws with their FN-57 while American Leopard tanks rolled across the desert in our Forever War. Marketing was getting unbearable.
 
Uranus Pink said:
eeriely similar pattern
Click to expand...
I mean, the WWSD project is at least something that you can get for yourself and get a honest assessment on, and thousands of people have.
Dragon Skin was pushed by the show Future Weapons and the actual news media to the point it was an actual marketing campaign, and promoted to normies who don't know anything about armor. And the people who did get the armor so they could mail to their son that was deployed or whatever, can't tell how good or bad it works because it's extremely expensive to test armor.
The WWSD may have a dubious concept, and there's been issues with the execution, but at least it's a rifle that works at the two-gun match.
Dragon Skin was absolute shit. Out of the samples sent for the Army to test, several arrived with the scales already dislodged and they're not field repairable. The adhesive that held everything in place failed in both the heat, cold, and exposure to diesel fuel. Even the armor inserts that had no problems, failed to stop rounds that came in at an angle and slipped between scales.

Probably hasn't been posted before but it reinforces what I've said about the polymer lower.
 
Corn Flakes said:
All that said, I would like to see what a competitive shooter could do with it if given enough time to get used to the gun. If that bore axis and fixed top strap really are as big a deal as they're claiming them to be, it should shave a second or two off a good shooter's average par time on any given competitive stage.
Click to expand...

The alien is pretty fucking sweet. But I’m not sure it’s $5000 sweet. I’d probably be willing to pay $2500-$3000 for one considering the cost of pistols with equivalent features i.e. 2011‘s.



Alien
 
UVB-76 said:
MEDIA=youtube]aEhYEGPHQdM[/MEDIA]
Probably hasn't been posted before but it reinforces what I've said about the polymer lower.
Click to expand...
Good to finally see a 1 to 1 comparison. This was the main thing that turned me. It isn't part of the marketing now, but Karl and Ian WERE pushing in the beginning the main benefit of a polymer being weight savings. The barrel and hand-guard have a much more extreme effect on building a "light" rifle. And if I really wanted to save weight I would do a sub 16" barrel; but now I'm boxed in to an SBR since I can't make it a pistol...
I have LPVO mounts that are 3oz lighter than others.

Injection molding is primarily beneficial to the manufacturer until you can run millions of parts and drive the cost way down.

Again, no disrespect, it's no small feat to get a mold made for a firearm in the time they did. I worked at a Fortune 500 company that would take twice the time for a fucking container.
People think you can just take a 3D file and machine a negative for a mold. There are draft angles for walls, rules for wall thicknesses to prevent sink/flow marks, complex injector pin plates and slides, calculation of shrink rates of the material. Simple thinks like running parts 10 seconds faster than others can lead to drastic dimensional differences.
It's impressive there are as little issues as there are.
 
WhoBusTank69 said:
people were pissed on the same level as 5.7 being rejected.
Click to expand...
That seethe still feeds me. Feeds me even more now that there's a good example of the P90 (and MP7) failing to defeat the claimed body armor in a practical test.

UVB-76 said:
The adhesive that held everything in place failed in both the heat, cold, and exposure to diesel fuel. Even the armor inserts that had no problems, failed to stop rounds that came in at an angle and slipped between scales.
Click to expand...
A specific anecdote I recall mentions the glue dissolving as someone was sitting in a hot car in Iraq or Afghanistan, with the armor discs sliding down and gathering in the bottom, similar to things mentioned in the Wikipedia article.
It kinda brings to mind those Nylon vests from Second Chance, except the feeling I get is less that these dudes actually knew that their armor was bullshit, and more that they really hadn't tested or thought enough about its application.

Chris Kyle stated in his book American Sniper that he wore Dragon Skin body armor after his third deployment which he received from his wife's parents as a gift.[32]
Click to expand...
Speaking of Chris Kyle, there was a blowhard to rival all blowhards, I feel like he'd be a big ol' lolcow if he was still alive and on the internet, I once heard a joke about Chris Kyle being the original author of the Navy Seal copypasta, and it really fits him to a T.
Remember when he said he was sniping looters from atop of the Superdome during Hurricane Katrina, on orders from the US government?
 
HumptiDouji said:
That seethe still feeds me. Feeds me even more now that there's a good example of the P90 (and MP7) failing to defeat the claimed body armor in a practical test.
Click to expand...
I get the biggest shit eating grin whenever someone rants on and on about how 5.7 and 4.6 are the greatest rounds to have ever whizzed across the battlefield, and i can just show them that they don't penetrate russian armor from the mid 80's
 
Krinkler1984 said:
Russian armor from the mid 80's
Click to expand...
In fairness, that armor is very impressive for its time period, and still seems pretty good.

EDIT: In retrospect, I wonder just how good this armor is, does it have similar flaws to Dragon Skin where bullets can slip inbetween the plates at angles?
 
Last edited:
Krinkler1984 said:
I get the biggest shit eating grin whenever someone rants on and on about how 5.7 and 4.6 are the greatest rounds to have ever whizzed across the battlefield, and i can just show them that they don't penetrate russian armor from the mid 80's
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MbPT9z_RzYA
Click to expand...
I have no clue why but I find oxide incredibly annoying
i think its something about the voice but maybe also the slight Russian LARPing
 
HumptiDouji said:
In fairness, that armor is very impressive for its time period, and still seems pretty good.

EDIT: In retrospect, I wonder just how good this armor is, does it have similar flaws to Dragon Skin where bullets can slip inbetween the plates at angles?
Click to expand...
wasn't the problem with the Dragon Skin armor that the individual "scales" would dislodge from each other over time and in high heat, and then sag to the bottom of the vest?
as for the russian armor, i'm sure that a round could slip between the soviet armor when fired at an angle
 
Krinkler1984 said:
I get the biggest shit eating grin whenever someone rants on and on about how 5.7 and 4.6 are the greatest rounds to have ever whizzed across the battlefield, and i can just show them that they don't penetrate russian armor from the mid 80's
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MbPT9z_RzYA
Click to expand...
I sincerely believe the aforementioned firearms's portrayal is video games is at least partly to blame for the common misperception of them being especially apt at defeating rifle-resistant body armour, with one particular tittle especially coming to mind. This mythos isn't limited to PDW's however, but generally includes armour piercing cartridges for virtually all types of firearms. Particularly prominent examples are M995 and M993, for 5.56x45 and 7.62x51, respectively. These two cartridges are often seen as the be-all end-all of Western AP cartridges, and thus beliefs about their armour defeating capabilities are often greatly exaggerated.


I find the fact of the two aforementioned cartridges were designed and fielded not for a anti-personnel role, but rather an anti-materiel one, somewhat telling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom