General GunTuber thread

[HumptiDouji]

Basically the boomers who will pay $$$ for a competition handgun are boomers who would stay with something familiar even if it wasn't extracting all the performance-for-dollar compared to a more efficient system.

True, you aren't gonna get a lot of old timers to move away from their deluxe 1911s or double-action revolvers with featherlight springs and sensitive primers, and those are some pretty fucking excellent raceguns in the right hands. However, I do think that this design is pretty clever for the purposes of being a racegun, I would be surprised if the Alien, or pistols inspired by it, won't be a common sight in competitive shooting sports by 2040 (depending on division).

There's actually a potentially very vital tip in this video, weapon light lens covers to prevent them reflecting any light shined upon them in a scenario in which someone is shining a light weapon mounted or otherwise at your current position whether you are engaging them or not and thus giving away your position assuming it hasn't been given away by noise, visual detection or muzzle flash.

Huh, I actually never thought of that, I'll have to keep that in mind.

Where's MattV when you need him?

Right? He'd encase his Glock in Jell-O, wrap it in rubber bands, or coat it in sexlube, etc, doing all kinds of retarded shit to his guns to see how well they'd run after the most asinine of abuse and bad conditions. I miss that lil' nigga like you wouldn't believe.

With the design there's not much to do. It's like torture-testing a match M1A and starting by picking it up by the handguard - it's toast by design and after it's already dead you just upset the manufacturer by unintentionally suggesting it resist adverse conditions when it's supposed to be a John-Wick-esque 3gun piece.

Being entirely honest here, part of why I want to see him do that kind of shit is because I want it to shut up clueless people who think it's some sort of ultimate pistol just because it has low bore axis and a good sight mount.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Right? He'd encase his Glock in Jell-O, wrap it in rubber bands, or coat it in sexlube, etc, doing all kinds of retarded shit to his guns to see how well they'd run after the most asinine of abuse and bad conditions. I miss that lil' nigga like you wouldn't believe.

Don't forget the time he deep fried it.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

We didn't need a mud test to know that. The moment I saw those slots between the top strap and the slide, I knew that thing would take dirt about as well as Karl takes criticism.

That was my first thought; until I saw one taken apart, and immedately noted there were three things that stood out in it's favor for the mud test, none of which are shared with any other race-guns or boutique pistols.

A. The hammer swings down, instead of up from a well (or within a tiny channel, i.e. strikers); and the fire-control group appeared simple, robust, and uncramped.

B. The thing is airtight like AK; it doesn't rely on super-tight tolerances to perform, and gunk looks like it has as many egress as ingress points. Which would be bad except for-

C. The gas delay system. It appears to literally blow shit clear of the hammer & slide once that first shot happens. I was positive the thing was going to lock up solid, as a HK P7 definitely would.

All I know is that it suddenly became a lot more interesting.

 

[Corn Flakes]

That was my first thought; until I saw one taken apart, and immedately noted there were three things that stood out in it's favor for the mud test, none of which are shared with any other race-guns or boutique pistols.

A. The hammer swings down, instead of up from a well (or within a tiny channel, i.e. strikers); and the fire-control group appeared simple, robust, and uncramped.

B. The thing is airtight like AK; it doesn't rely on super-tight tolerances to perform, and gunk looks like it has as many egress as ingress points. Which would be bad except for-

C. The gas delay system. It appears to literally blow shit clear of the hammer & slide once that first shot happens. I was positive the thing was going to lock up solid, as a HK P7 definitely would.

All I know is that it suddenly became a lot more interesting.

Those are good points, but I think other people on the thread mentioned the most important thing about the test: that pistol is born and bread as a race gun, the mud test pushed it so far out of its design spec it essentially tells us nothing.

I get mud tests like that with combat rifles. Shit you are going to be going to the dirt and crawling around with. For a pistol, though? The most serious use case would be self-defense, and unless you're in this weird situation where you're on a rural backroad or a construction site in the rain you're just not likely to drop your gun into mud that glutinous. And if you do, you're not gonna have a foam insert in the barrel to keep the mud from going in, which rules out malfunctions caused by barrel blockages. For the vast majority of cases in an urban setting or home defense situation with a pistol, you're looking at puddles of muddy water (which I'm sure the Alien and most other pistols can handle just fine), possibly even running water if you drop it into a gutter in the rain, not that 1-1 plaster mixture Ian and Karl like using. That's why I always treat those mud tests as entertainment more than anything else.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Those are good points, but I think other people on the thread mentioned the most important thing about the test: that pistol is born and bread as a race gun, the mud test pushed it so far out of its design spec it essentially tells us nothing.

It might be semantics, but I've never seen it as a "race" gun; the Alien weighs too much, and it's not tunable like one. Though the Laugo carries a race-gun price tag, it's not for the same reasons; namely a lack of NASA-tier tolerances, mission modules, and exotic materials.

For all it's looks, there's nothing really exotic in the Alien except in the execution; with the price tag being related more to production scale than target market, for what is essentially a functional technology demonstrator.

At least the company seems to have the experience to dodge a Hudson 9 outcome, and has already done so in large part. I just hope Laugo licenses the design, so I don't need to save up for as long.

 

[Corn Flakes]

It might be semantics, but I've never seen it as a "race" gun; the Alien weighs too much, and it's not tunable like one. Though the Laugo carries a race-gun price tag, it's not for the same reasons; namely a lack of NASA-tier tolerances, mission modules, and exotic materials.

For all it's looks, there's nothing really exotic in the Alien except in the execution; with the price tag being related more to production scale than target market, for what is essentially a functional technology demonstrator.

That's fair. How about we meet in the middle and call it a range toy? It's new, it's expensive, it's got novelty, it's rare, and according to Ian at least it's fun to shoot. Those are all characteristics I usually attribute to range toys.

All that said, I would like to see what a competitive shooter could do with it if given enough time to get used to the gun. If that bore axis and fixed top strap really are as big a deal as they're claiming them to be, it should shave a second or two off a good shooter's average par time on any given competitive stage.

 

[CyrusHowler]

I really wanna see Administrative Results or Garand Thumb make a video on the WWSD rifle.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I really wanna see Administrative Results or Garand Thumb make a video on the WWSD rifle.

I'd prefer they quietly seethe about there not being any reviews.

 

[Uranus Pink]

If they're so hell bent on torture testing, why don't Ian and Karl put their money where their mouth is and donate a few of their WWSD rifles to the U.S. Army for testing?

 

[Corn Flakes]

If they're so hell bent on torture testing, why don't Ian and Karl put their money where their mouth is and donate a few of their WWSD rifles to the U.S. Army for testing?

Funny idea, but doomed from the start. Why would the US Army waste their time and money testing a gamer gun when their own M4s still work just fine?

 

[Uranus Pink]

Funny idea, but doomed from the start. Why would the US Army waste their time and money testing a gamer gun when their own M4s still work just fine?

My previous post was in regard to the Dragon Scale body armor which the WWSD fanboys been following an eeriely similar pattern. What I had forgotten U.S. Army itself was genuinely curious about it as soldiers were buying it on their own. And thus went about torture testing it to see if the manufacturer claims hold up and found it wanting as it utterly failed in almost every category. Which force a cease and desist call out to every serviceman who owned it to stopped using it.

 

[White Devil]

My previous post was in regard to the Dragon Scale body armor which the WWSD fanboys been following an eeriely similar pattern. What I had forgotten U.S. Army itself was genuinely curious about it as soldiers were buying it on their own. And thus went about torture testing it to see if the manufacturer claims hold up and found it wanting as it utterly failed in almost every category. Which force a cease and desist call out to every serviceman who owned it to stopped using it.

Who was that one General that flat out disobeyed that and outfit his personal bodyguards with it? I remember this was a huge thing in the early 2000s with a lot of intrigue.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Who was that one General that flat out disobeyed that and outfit his personal bodyguards with it? I remember this was a huge thing in the early 2000s with a lot of intrigue.

That was Chiarelli.
I forgot how much of a shitshow Dragon Skin was - people were pissed on the same level as 5.7 being rejected.

 

[White Devil]

That was Chiarelli.
I forgot how much of a shitshow Dragon Skin was - people were pissed on the same level as 5.7 being rejected.

I remember message boards of the time treating it like the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I remember message boards of the time treating it like the greatest thing since sliced bread.

You had a lot of hopefuls wanting to enlist so they could wear ultra light Dragon Skin while swapping barrels on their XM8 and practicing quickdraws with their FN-57 while American Leopard tanks rolled across the desert in our Forever War. Marketing was getting unbearable.

 

[UVB-76]

eeriely similar pattern

I mean, the WWSD project is at least something that you can get for yourself and get a honest assessment on, and thousands of people have.
Dragon Skin was pushed by the show Future Weapons and the actual news media to the point it was an actual marketing campaign, and promoted to normies who don't know anything about armor. And the people who did get the armor so they could mail to their son that was deployed or whatever, can't tell how good or bad it works because it's extremely expensive to test armor.
The WWSD may have a dubious concept, and there's been issues with the execution, but at least it's a rifle that works at the two-gun match.
Dragon Skin was absolute shit. Out of the samples sent for the Army to test, several arrived with the scales already dislodged and they're not field repairable. The adhesive that held everything in place failed in both the heat, cold, and exposure to diesel fuel. Even the armor inserts that had no problems, failed to stop rounds that came in at an angle and slipped between scales.

Probably hasn't been posted before but it reinforces what I've said about the polymer lower.

 

[SinistralRifleman]

All that said, I would like to see what a competitive shooter could do with it if given enough time to get used to the gun. If that bore axis and fixed top strap really are as big a deal as they're claiming them to be, it should shave a second or two off a good shooter's average par time on any given competitive stage.

The alien is pretty fucking sweet. But I’m not sure it’s $5000 sweet. I’d probably be willing to pay $2500-$3000 for one considering the cost of pistols with equivalent features i.e. 2011‘s.



Alien

 

[HelpingNoone]

MEDIA=youtube]aEhYEGPHQdM[/MEDIA]
Probably hasn't been posted before but it reinforces what I've said about the polymer lower.

Good to finally see a 1 to 1 comparison. This was the main thing that turned me. It isn't part of the marketing now, but Karl and Ian WERE pushing in the beginning the main benefit of a polymer being weight savings. The barrel and hand-guard have a much more extreme effect on building a "light" rifle. And if I really wanted to save weight I would do a sub 16" barrel; but now I'm boxed in to an SBR since I can't make it a pistol...
I have LPVO mounts that are 3oz lighter than others.

Injection molding is primarily beneficial to the manufacturer until you can run millions of parts and drive the cost way down.

Again, no disrespect, it's no small feat to get a mold made for a firearm in the time they did. I worked at a Fortune 500 company that would take twice the time for a fucking container.
People think you can just take a 3D file and machine a negative for a mold. There are draft angles for walls, rules for wall thicknesses to prevent sink/flow marks, complex injector pin plates and slides, calculation of shrink rates of the material. Simple thinks like running parts 10 seconds faster than others can lead to drastic dimensional differences.
It's impressive there are as little issues as there are.

 

[HumptiDouji]

people were pissed on the same level as 5.7 being rejected.

That seethe still feeds me. Feeds me even more now that there's a good example of the P90 (and MP7) failing to defeat the claimed body armor in a practical test.

The adhesive that held everything in place failed in both the heat, cold, and exposure to diesel fuel. Even the armor inserts that had no problems, failed to stop rounds that came in at an angle and slipped between scales.

A specific anecdote I recall mentions the glue dissolving as someone was sitting in a hot car in Iraq or Afghanistan, with the armor discs sliding down and gathering in the bottom, similar to things mentioned in the Wikipedia article.
It kinda brings to mind those Nylon vests from Second Chance, except the feeling I get is less that these dudes actually knew that their armor was bullshit, and more that they really hadn't tested or thought enough about its application.

Chris Kyle stated in his book American Sniper that he wore Dragon Skin body armor after his third deployment which he received from his wife's parents as a gift.[32]

Speaking of Chris Kyle, there was a blowhard to rival all blowhards, I feel like he'd be a big ol' lolcow if he was still alive and on the internet, I once heard a joke about Chris Kyle being the original author of the Navy Seal copypasta, and it really fits him to a T.
Remember when he said he was sniping looters from atop of the Superdome during Hurricane Katrina, on orders from the US government?

 

[Krinkler1984]

That seethe still feeds me. Feeds me even more now that there's a good example of the P90 (and MP7) failing to defeat the claimed body armor in a practical test.

I get the biggest shit eating grin whenever someone rants on and on about how 5.7 and 4.6 are the greatest rounds to have ever whizzed across the battlefield, and i can just show them that they don't penetrate russian armor from the mid 80's