General GunTuber thread

@Full Spectrum you want to make a lawsuit thread in the Lolcow and Lolcow LLP. subforum?
Not particularly. If Russel did violate NDA that's actually cool on his part to ensure his dream stays alive. This is more about Karl and Ian copying others' work and why it could be the case from a financial and source of intellect perspective (i.e. Russel being the brains of the operation.) Seeing as how Ian is the only one doing the promotions for WWSD now, it may have been (highly unlikely) the case from the start that with IRTV's WSSD project was started by Russel roping in Karl to get Ian to officially promote polymer lowers seeing as they are at least acquaintances from before. If you wanted to keep going down the possibly more entertaining path IRTV could have been formed with the intent to shill polymer lowers with Ian's publicity as its end purpose in the most extreme and least likely consideration. Karl largely functioned as an intermediary if this were the case and now we can see he may have outlived that purpose.

It's really funny to me that the WWSD gun is just a gamer gun from 2010 with a pencil barrel and PDQ lever and a new gamer buffer. That is why I asked Russel if he was involved with mentioning the PDQ lever to Karl, as it seems quite likely that Russel (of the three) would have known of it first since Karl is a righty and Ian knew nothing of ARs back then - possibly further adding to the unoriginality of the two. Literally part for part the rifle is a near perfect clone that no one has seemed to notice. In the probably more likely case that the conspiracies I mentioned earlier are proven false, the WWSD gun existing in 2010 and being known to Karl (he was running the timer and watching the shooter as the gun exploded) is really hilarious to me. The irony is that in IRTV's first (or earliest) video on youtube they say that "nothing is new" and how they don't want to become beholden to any particular company - and now they are copying rifles and beholden to KE Arms and all the manufacturers involved with WWSD.
All of my blog posts, videos, and comments have already been entered into evidence during discovery. Including these:
Your blog posts were already on the internet archive for some time, no surprise there.
 
Full Spectrum,

The 2010 rifle built by Paul Shanks that blew up at PRGC 3 Gun is not a WWSD. https://www.recoilweb.com/internet-rumor-control-epic-kaboom-56517.html

WWSD is a particular combination of parts that includes a number of things not present in that gun.

18 spr profile rifle gas vs 16” pencil midlength
Timney single stage trigger vs Sear Link Technology Trigger
No Ambi controls vs Ambi controls
Brake vs Flash hider
Plain carbon fiber Tube vs MLOK
Standard buffer system vs SCSS

So how exactly is that rifle from 2010 a part for part clone?

The WWSD rifle program was entirely Karl and Ian’s idea. I first heard about this project in 2016-2017 shooting matches with them. KE Arms had a new trigger coming that had unique features that I felt met the goals of their project and they adopted the SLT.

InRange started in 2015 because Karl was collaborating with Ian regularly on forgotten weapons, and Ian was worried he would eventually run out of old gun content and that the channel wasn’t geared towards modern stuff. 7 years later things obviously played out differently.

The PDQ is not useful to me as a lefty.
I use my trigger finger to actuate the bolt catch. I don’t know why people think that’s a left handed part. It’s far more useful to right handed shooters.

The complete configuration of the WWSD rifle is not what I would spec myself because it included too many expensive parts from outside vendors. The CDR is closer to what I personally believe is an optimized lightweight rifle that balances cost and features better.

You really should go find my deposition transcript and my responses to interrogatories rather than keep guessing at things.
 
Karl associate Deviant Ollam who recently collaborated with Karl at the most recent AWCY Gun Makers Match is publicly fawning over the animal neglecting, grifting man made desert known as the Tenacious Unicorn Ranch and its resident autogynephiles. Karl sure does know how to pick associates, tactical autogynephiles, chris chan pronoun policers and a guy who simps for trannies who neglect animals and lie about being threatened by maga chud militias
 

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Karl associate Deviant Ollam who recently collaborated with Karl at the most recent AWCY Gun Makers Match is publicly fawning over the animal neglecting, grifting man made desert known as the Tenacious Unicorn Ranch and its resident autogynephiles. Karl sure does know how to pick associates, tactical autogynephiles, chris chan pronoun policers and a guy who simps for trannies who neglect animals and lie about being threatened by maga chud militias
I love cow crossovers. It’s twice the milk for half the work.
 
Karl associate Deviant Ollam who recently collaborated with Karl at the most recent AWCY Gun Makers Match is publicly fawning over the animal neglecting, grifting man made desert known as the Tenacious Unicorn Ranch and its resident autogynephiles. Karl sure does know how to pick associates, tactical autogynephiles, chris chan pronoun policers and a guy who simps for trannies who neglect animals and lie about being threatened by maga chud militias
Ollam better hurry up and visit the Tranch because it's currently being ripped apart by BPD pussy and a failed Indian donation grift.
 
Karl associate Deviant Ollam who recently collaborated with Karl at the most recent AWCY Gun Makers Match is publicly fawning over the animal neglecting, grifting man made desert known as the Tenacious Unicorn Ranch and its resident autogynephiles. Karl sure does know how to pick associates, tactical autogynephiles, chris chan pronoun policers and a guy who simps for trannies who neglect animals and lie about being threatened by maga chud militias
That fag. I just wanted to watch a video about breaking into elevators and he starts preaching on how the right is evil.

Ollam better hurry up and visit the Tranch because it's currently being ripped apart by BPD pussy and a failed Indian donation grift.
Ooooo.... New saga. Need to catch up.
 
18 spr profile rifle gas vs 16” pencil midlength
Timney single stage trigger vs Sear Link Technology Trigger
No Ambi controls vs Ambi controls
Brake vs Flash hider
Plain carbon fiber Tube vs MLOK
Standard buffer system vs SCSS

So how exactly is that rifle from 2010 a part for part clone?
They both have:
free float carbon fiber handguards
cassette drop in triggers
Young BCGs
Polymer Lower w/ integral handguard/buttstock

The PDQ lever, SLT, SCSS, and MLOK of course didn't exist in 2010.
I suppose it could be considered a substantially original thought on Karl an Ian's part to include ambi controls on an AR-15 circa 2017.

Looking at the new ballistic advantage barrel you guys changed to from a faxon super pencil where the weight gain of 4 oz is equivalent to the weight saings of the KP15 vs a milspec M4 lower. That means someone with a milspec M4 lower and a faxon barrel compared to a WWSD and ballistic advantage barrel are equivalent or close enough in weight all other parts being equal. The M4 lower gun can even be lighter than the WWSD rifle if it omits the SCSS as well since it adds weight compared to the milspec system. You can go even lighter on the receiver extension with exotic materials and exotic stock choices that end up closing the gap if not coming in lighter than the KP-15. Ian also considered an 18" barrel for the WWSD rifle, so it is entirely within the concept and not entirely different. The funny thing about the barrel change was that the faxon was overgassed, but the entire debacle of IMR vs Ball powder was that ball powder made the gun overgassed. That's definitely NOT what Stoner would do, he knew how to gas a rifle properly. Of course you could tame the gas I'm sure with extra buffer weights, but that's cutting into the weight savings of the barrel itself.

Even if otherwise Ian and Karl's genius and originality would then lie in the difference being a 2" barrel reduction, flash hider selection, ambi controls, choosing to use MLOK some time after 2014, and the selection of the SCSS buffer system. I'm sure that's commensurate with Stoner's brilliance. Or you know Stoner would have just made an SR-25 styled rifle since he actually designed that one.

Or to parallel history Stoner would have let Sullivan and Fremont do all the work while he worked on failed 7.62 projects until 1974. Funny enough they omit Sullivan's new BCG since it has "no applicability" to what they're doing since it isn't a military rifle and not designed for full auto, it's a "reimagined Colt SP-1" or something similarly nebulously defined like that but nevermind that Stoner designed full auto military rifles and his SR-25 being semi auto is because it's a literal sniper/DMR rifle. Or perhaps it has no applicability since building a gun around full auto capacity has less of a commercial applicability? Nevermind the fact that sullivan's BCG has more preferential unlocking cam path and other benefits that work in semi auto (for longevity) and also for shooting suppressed, but I suppose the WWSD rifle was never intended to be suppressed since it's a gamer gun and the original FH was fixed.

But then they select Young manufacture BCG "the best BCG on the market," which after spending 16 minutes talking in a video about how it's easy to clean and the nebulous appreciation of that in how it actually affects a rifle's function (I am aware of the competition shooting benefits for the camp perry style matches) there is less than a minute spent talking about the blind hole style cam pin being stronger and improved, which parallels Sullivan's BCG, but that had no applicability to WWSD but now it does with Young MFR. Maybe it's because KE Arms owns Young Manufacturing and the MSRP is the same for both so more profit for everyone involved? Funny how "the best BCG on the market" gives KE Arms more money than otherwise. Of course you don't even need a proprietary bolt cam pin hole and pin for that sort of benefit, you could just install your cam pin in the same orientation each time and have more longevity for free on any AR-15. Ah yes, there it is, Stoner would have designed a gun in 2020 that ensures KE Arms generates as much profit as possible for a company he is not employed by.

Even on the point of the original BCG being chromed, Stoner made a poor choice in the matter. Choosing the chrome the BCG but not the barrel was a massive mistake and in backwards order. I wouldn't consider Stoner's original choice of what to chrome being a sound and thoroughly tested one.
 
There will never be enough willie pete.
"Do you feel like a hero yet?"
Nevermind the fact that sullivan's BCG has more preferential unlocking cam path and other benefits that work in semi auto (for longevity) and also for shooting suppressed, but I suppose the WWSD rifle was never intended to be suppressed since it's a gamer gun and the original FH was fixed.
This is totally out of my wheelhouse but doesn't the Sullivan BCG increase the stroke and thus hammer the bolt hold open harder after the last round? Or is it totally overblown by people online?
 
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Reactions: White Devil
I just don't think a 6lb AR (5.95lb) is that amazing of a selling feature. Good luck telling anyone that elsewhere on the internet....

A P/W 14.5 is often going to be right at 6lbs. Not hard to hit 6lb with the right handguard, barrel, stock.
Hell my PWS mod2 piston gun is right 6lbs.
 
Stoner would have designed a gun in 2020 that ensures KE Arms generates as much profit as possible for a company he is not employed by.

The rifles weren’t a profit center. After paying for the BOM, Labor, FET, and everything else associated with the cost of the WWSD we make about $100 profit on a complete WWSD rifle shipped to Brownells. WWSD went from a thought exercise/DIY program for viewers into a commercial product over the span of several years. Had it been intended as a commercial project from the start component cost and availability would be a much greater consideration.

If we had not vertically integrated manufacturing operations of components that were in short supply and irregularly available, we never would have filled all the orders.

So let’s say we did use the Surefire/Sullivan BCG; increase cost at retail by another couple hundred bucks and introduce even more variables in supply chain. Are people going to pay $1900-2000 for a WWSD? I doubt it.

Regarding Faxon barrels: at some point they started over gassing them with 0.081 gas ports to run with steel case ammunition. Karl and Ian selected the barrel profile, not the gas port size. Our points of contact all left Faxon. I never got a response to my request to reduce the gas port size to 0.078”. We were only being allocated 100 barrels a month with hundreds of open orders. So we switched to BA. Never underestimate the human factor in dealing with vendors; if the people you worked with and cared about the program aren’t there anymore it may not continue to work.

Karl and Ian doing WWSD in 2017 is no more ripping off Paul Shank’s lightweight 3 Gun rifle 2010 than Paul Shanks is ripping off a JP light weight 3 Gun rifle from the 1990s. There is almost nothing original in this industry; only refinements and recombinations of existing concepts and components.
 
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Karl associate Deviant Ollam who recently collaborated with Karl at the most recent AWCY Gun Makers Match is publicly fawning over the animal neglecting, grifting man made desert known as the Tenacious Unicorn Ranch and its resident autogynephiles. Karl sure does know how to pick associates, tactical autogynephiles, chris chan pronoun policers and a guy who simps for trannies who neglect animals and lie about being threatened by maga chud militias
Ollam said he really admired Weimar Republic Germany, didn't he?
 
Karl and Ian doing WWSD in 2017 is no more ripping off Paul Shank’s lightweight 3 Gun rifle 2010 than Paul Shanks is ripping off a JP light weight 3 Gun rifle from the 1990s. There is almost nothing original in this industry; only refinements and recombinations of existing concepts and components.
That's precisely my point. WWSD isn't materially or substantially different than a marginal and iterative development of gamer guns. It even becomes worse with the CDR which admits to the fact that "WWSD" and the original handguard, chromed BCG, exact cassette trigger model, PDQ lever, and SCSS are of secondary importance to the concept, further putting the central thesis of the WWSD concept closer to Paul's gun by having even less differentiae. The WWSD as a concept ends up being: polymer lower (kp-15), no forward assist, some kind of exterior BCG coating other than phosphate, ambi safety, and some kind of cassette trigger (the CDR gets at least a surely gamer version with the weaker sub-milspec strength hammer spring; I'm not sure about the SLT since there doesn't seem to be any of that information about it available.) You could even possibly say a milspec BCG is "closer" to the premium WWSD and Stoner's intent since it is chromed internally.

The thing about the gas system is that even at .078" on the original midlength 16" faxon barrel it exceeds the milspec midlength 14.5" gas port of .076" on the URGIs despite having extra dwell length, so it was already comparatively overgassed to begin with by essentially the same amount to begin with that Faxon increased to the new .081" port. Funny enough the overgassing problem on the AR-15 was outside of Stoner's control and due to his selection (with Remington) of an unsuitable IMR powder for mass production. So there is some parallel of a mistake here as to what Stoner did, though isn't this supposed to be what Stoner would do with his lessons learned? Faxon was already recommending an H2 buffer on their barrels to begin with circa 2016, which is indicative of overgassing from the start. Of course gamers and recreational shooters using cheap and weak ammo is also in line and congruent with Stoner's intent for maximum velocity (as with all milspec loads being loaded as hot as possible) to meet the 500 yard steel helmet penetration requirement by having a round that was at max allowable chamber pressure with the IMR single base powder that was blowing out primers. They fixed the overgassing on the original M16 using ball powder by going from a 1.8 oz buffer to a 5 oz one (3.2 oz increase and deadblow effect.) Was the overgassing that much worse on the faxon barrel where one or two 2.4 oz heavier tungsten (than the steel) weights couldn't fix the issue?

Ascribing something as extraordinary as Stoner's intent to something so petty in scope and gamer specific seems disingenuous if not outright just a very bad opinion. Just as you observed it is quite in line with what competition setups have used and were progressing towards. So then, it would be better stated as what would gamers do without using an adjustable gas block, would it not?

 
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Holy fucking wall of text

You have far more time to argue in autistic detail about rifles that you’re never going to purchase than I have time to go through point by point and explain and argue with you.

Build a successful YouTube channel.
Get 500,000 subs.
Spec out the Full Spectrum Autism rifle.
Generate 1,000 pre-orders
We’ll build whatever you spec out as long as it can actually be done.
We can even do a limited edition puzzle piece Multicam Cerakote for the first 100 buyers.

And then in 2037 some other person with too much time on their hands can argue with you about how it’s just a copy of some gun some dude did in 2022.
 
Karl associate Deviant Ollam who recently collaborated with Karl at the most recent AWCY Gun Makers Match is publicly fawning over the animal neglecting, grifting man made desert known as the Tenacious Unicorn Ranch and its resident autogynephiles. Karl sure does know how to pick associates, tactical autogynephiles, chris chan pronoun policers and a guy who simps for trannies who neglect animals and lie about being threatened by maga chud militias
Isn't his "wife" a tranny? In any case, while I think he's a smug leftypol antifa cringelord, most of his videos are actually pretty informative so I ignore the shit takes. I do the same with info I get from cringe far right guys. You don't have to like a guy to learn good information from them.
 
And then in 2037 some other person with too much time on their hands can argue with you about how it’s just a copy of some gun some dude did in 2022.
I think his point is he won't pass his build off as novel or meme Stoner. If anything, this guy would be good to have a conversation with in a non-adversarial setting given his autistic knowledge and differing opinion.

Build a successful YouTube channel.
Get 500,000 subs.
This also brings in the issue of people conflating Youtube subscribers with correctness. Touting subscriber clout is something people would normally see in the Beauty Salon.
 
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