General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[Marvin]

that's the most sexist of all. female is about the genes. woman is a social construct built on top of genetic potentials. separate the two, understand that some people are born cross wired between them and stop debating the validity of trans people already, please?

Sex is binary and fixed in mammals.

 

[Ser Prize]

There's this group of troons I really hate but can't dox because they would know who it was. When I was a minor, they tried grooming me into a relationship both online and offline, making creepy comments about my hair, talking about wanting to "be me" (whatever that means). I thought they would finally leave me alone after I made them freak out by saying that I didn't feel attracted to people with dicks, fast forward a few years and one of them is still in my hometown and most of my friends and acquaintances think I'm just a "soul grape" or liar for calling him a pedo, and criticizing me for refusing to use "she/her" to refer to it. The only thing I can hope for is that he decides to leave for some liberal city like he tells everyone he wants to, and I can try to forget he exists.

Man you almost got buffalo bill'd.

 

[Panzerfrau]

There's this group of troons I really hate but can't dox because they would know who it was. When I was a minor, they tried grooming me into a relationship both online and offline, making creepy comments about my hair, talking about wanting to "be me" (whatever that means). I thought they would finally leave me alone after I made them freak out by saying that I didn't feel attracted to people with dicks, fast forward a few years and one of them is still in my hometown and most of my friends and acquaintances think I'm just a "soul grape" or liar for calling him a pedo, and criticizing me for refusing to use "she/her" to refer to it. The only thing I can hope for is that he decides to leave for some liberal city like he tells everyone he wants to, and I can try to forget he exists.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Stay safe.

I've been in a similar situation, except I actually was in a relationship with one of them. I was hanging out with my "girlfriend's" friend and they would often make remarks about wanting to be me or how validating my existence is. For a long time I didn't understand the latter, until my "girlfriend" explained to me, and I will never forget that:

You're like, a woman, but nothing about you is woman-ish, you have "male" hobbies, "male" job and you don't wear dresses and don't have cis female friends... it's extremely validating seeing a cis girl that is so similar to us <3

It feels so NICE knowing that my existence is a validation machine for AGP troons.

 

[Nigger Respecter]

What the fuck does "acting like a man" even mean? So you're effeminate. Who gives a shit. That doesn't make you a woman. If I wear a tuxedo and monocle and top hat everywhere, am I now a rich guy? Well, I might be able to fool some people into thinking I am. Others will think I look like I'm wearing a costume. And no matter how many people think I'm rich, I ain't. And I know it, which is also true for every trans woman: they know they're 100% a man and cannot change it no matter what. LOL

 

[Muskcarpone]

If I wear a tuxedo and monocle and top hat everywhere, am I now a rich guy? Well, I might be able to fool some people into thinking I am. Others will think I look like I'm wearing a costume. And no matter how many people think I'm rich, I ain't.

I read your post with Norm's voice in my head and that part was just spot on.

 

[Baloney Face]

What the fuck does "acting like a man" even mean? So you're effeminate. ...

Maybe not directly on topic for this thread, but this line of argumentation (not you personally) awakens one of my pet peeves.

I'm a gay man who is sometimes described as "straight acting".

Damn! Just because I don't go mincing around like Truman Capote used to doesn't mean my "normal" demeanor is just an act. I'm a lot less touchy about that sort of thing now, but years ago when I first came out of the closet I'd hit the ceiling.

You reminded me. I'm better now.

 

[White Trash Motorsport]

Just discovered that Arca has trooned out.
Damn. I liked him when he was just a really faggy guy who made weird music, ‘Reverie’ is a great track. Now he’s just another lanky troon with crap little gynocomastia tits and bunches (wtf is it with troons and bunches?).
I am very disappointed.

 

[AssignedEva]

Just discovered that Arca has trooned out.
Damn. I liked him when he was just a really faggy guy who made weird music, ‘Reverie’ is a great track. Now he’s just another lanky troon with crap little gynocomastia tits and bunches (wtf is it with troons and bunches?).
I am very disappointed.

Oh, did you see his Loewe campaign?

Edit:
It's a prime case of how it started:

how it's going:

Although he had been exploring gender fuckery since his first album (Xen was the name of his imaginary female persona, which I guess he decided to become)

 

[Sarcastic sockpuppet]

Oh, did you see his Loewe campaign?
View attachment 2648248

Is this supposed to sell bags? It looks like a horror movie.

 

[White Trash Motorsport]

Oh, did you see his Loewe campaign?
View attachment 2648248

Just when I thought I couldn’t hate acrylic nails any more than I did already.

 

[Choc]

Most studies on Sex Reassignment Surgery are very low quality.

What does the scholarly research say about the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being? What We Know. (2021, August 11). Retrieved October 24, 2021, from https://whatweknow.inequality.corne...y-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/.

Of the 52 studies finding a positive effect, one of them have to be excluded due its nature. Padula, Heru, and Campbell (2015) was simply an attempt to model the mathematical cost/ benefit of gender transitioning, not anything that actually provides original research on the effects of SRS. This leaves us with 51 studies, which is still a lot, but the rest still have problems. 5 of the largest studies cited by Cornell suffer from problems. Bailey, Ellis, and Mcneil (2014) was a narrative analysis that utilized an online survey and that was promoted by LGBT groups and support organizations. The method of getting there sample was not random, and is guilty of bias. Due to the nature of their self-selected survey, it offers nothing to make a generalized claim since it is not a random sample. St. Amand et al. (2011) got their sample from “online groups and discussion forums that were dedicated to FTM [female-to-male] members…” Again, not a random sample, suffers from non-response bias, and thus can not be used to make a generalized claim. Moving onto the other 3 studies, Newfield et al. (2006) recruited their sample via flyers and postcards in the San Francisco area, and of the larger studies with 573 people, their sample came from recruited “through purposive sampling by identifying community spaces and venues where transgender women congregate (e.g., community-based organizations, bars, and nightclubs) and posting flyers” (Glynn et al. 2016). If you’re smart enough to know the common trend with these studies, then you’d know that a purposive sample is not a random sample and thus can’t be used to make generalizations about the effects of a variable on a population. Djehne et al. (2014) was probably the most rigorous of the 5 largest papers and had a large sample size, with the study finding a very low regret rate for SRS. The thing is, the study undercounted the regret rate as its definition did not count those who were unhappy with their transition but chose not to reverse it. Nor those who ended up getting depression or addiction, or those who were unhappy after the transition. Nothing is said if the studies controlled for confounding variables, or if there were any control groups. Due to this, the study really does not help much.



Many of the smaller papers had similar problems as their 5 largest ones. For example, Boza and Perry (2014) had a sample that was self selected (self-selection bias), so it is not at all representative. Another study used a self-selecting sample of people from forums dedicated for those who were FtM (Meier et al. 2011).

Murad, M. H., Elamin, M. B., Garcia, M. Z., Mullan, R. J., Murad, A., Erwin, P. J., & Montori, V. M. (2010). Hormonal therapy and sex reassignment: A systematic review and meta-analysis of quality of life and psychosocial outcomes. Clinical Endocrinology, 72(2), 214–231. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03625.x

“Conclusions Very low quality evidence suggests that sex reassignment that includes hormonal interventions in individuals with GID likely improves gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, sexual function and overall quality of life.”


Gender dysphoria and gender reassignment surgery. CMS.gov Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. (n.d.). Retrieved October 24, 2021, from https://www.cms.gov/medicare-covera...mo.aspx?proposed=N&NCAId=282&bc=ACAAAAAAQAAA&.

“Overall, the quality and strength of evidence were low due to mostly observational study designs with no comparison groups, subjective endpoints, potential confounding (a situation where the association between the intervention and outcome is influenced by another factor such as a co-intervention), small sample sizes, lack of validated assessment tools and considerable loss to follow-up.”

 

[Ser Prize]

Like giving an anorexic person liposuction...

 

[Toluene Blood]

I have access to the curriculum of a medical school that has truly bought into the ideology. A male TRA writes a large portion of it and the main LGBTQ lecture was delivered by a transbian. Pronouns are littered throughout. Required readings included an article about a troon cult leader deifying a shitty robot version of his still-living wife and the guided discussion glorified him as an amazing forward-thinker. The lecturer for feminism, a respected pioneer in the field, had to make a public concession/apology that her material didn't feature current ideology. The ob/gyn lessons always do a little song and dance about it.

While not a full lolcow, the AGP transbian most certainly doesn't pass right now despite putting in some effort into outfit and hair. He was born and lived as a rich and privileged straight white guy until middle age - curiously, this is nowhere in his disclosure! He's very vague about his "surgery" and has been working with no apparent complications so it could easily be breast implantation rather than vaginoplasty. His transition coincides with his then-wife's pregnancy, and his behaviour was obnoxious enough for her to divorce him. He was emboldened by previous troons gaining the legal right to invade women's spaces and at this point has obtained women's awards, national-level positive media attention, handmaiden colleagues, institutional support, and an entire clinic full of kids, teens, and adults to give puberty blockers, HRT, and SRS referrals (to a known butcher no less), on a cushy one-day-per-week work schedule. Maybe it's even TWO days per week now that the population has exploded. He's even supportive of childhood transition. How else do I know this self-admitted transbian is an AGP? The LGBTQ lecture made sure to teach the class that sexual kinksters were valid too! Hilariously, his daughters go to an all-girls' school, which as far as I can tell from social media, doesn't seem to support trans ideology more than a token amount. Clearly sex-based rights are okay for his own children but not for everyone else's. Alternatively, it's the ex-wife shielding her kids from guys like him.

The doublethink and hypocrisy is ridiculous. On the one hand, the teachers push the students to always look at the data, where standards of proof are rigorous and nothing is assumed. Meanwhile, the curriculum goes to great pains to teach all the twitter-approved words to refer to genitalia, genders, and how to grovel to genderspecials in every possible medical setting. How transgenders are the victims of discrimination, domestic violence, and everything under the sun. Everyone is told that medical transition is "evidence-based", and yet the citations are never any more substantial than position papers and sloppy patient surveys, and they couldn't produce a single good article of outcomes data after the garbage-fire methods of the initially suggested articles was pointed out.

 

[Marvin]

Required readings included an article about a troon cult leader deifying a shitty robot version of his still-living wife and the guided discussion glorified him as an amazing forward-thinker.

Martine Rothblatt, I assume? I saw bits about his robot wife and just the still images I saw were creepy enough, but goddamn, you have to see it in action to really take it all in:

 

[ロボ﹏§¤r﹏h¶rœ]

'We're being pressured into sex by some trans women'​

​

Is a lesbian transphobic if she does not want to have sex with trans women? Some lesbians say they are increasingly being pressured and coerced into accepting trans women as partners - then shunned and even threatened for speaking out. Several have spoken to the BBC, along with trans women who are concerned about the issue too."I've had someone saying they would rather kill me than Hitler," says 24-year-old Jennie*.​

"They said they would strangle me with a belt if they were in a room with me and Hitler. That was so bizarrely violent, just because I won't have sex with trans women."
Jennie is a lesbian woman. She says she is only sexually attracted to women who are biologically female and have vaginas. She therefore only has sex and relationships with women who are biologically female.
Jennie doesn't think this should be controversial, but not everyone agrees. She has been described as transphobic, a genital fetishist, a pervert and a "terf" - a trans exclusionary radical feminist.

"There's a common argument that they try and use that goes 'What if you met a woman in a bar and she's really beautiful and you got on really well and you went home and you discovered that she has a penis? Would you just not be interested?'" says Jennie, who lives in London and works in fashion.

"Yes, because even if someone seems attractive at first you can go off them. I just don't possess the capacity to be sexually attracted to people who are biologically male, regardless of how they identify."

I became aware of this particular issue after I wrote an article about sex, lies and legal consent.
Several people got in touch with me to say there was a "huge problem" for lesbians, who were being pressured to "accept the idea that a penis can be a female sex organ".

I knew this would be a hugely divisive subject, but I wanted to find out how widespread the issue was.
Ultimately, it has been difficult to determine the true scale of the problem because there has been little research on this topic - only one survey to my knowledge. However, those affected have told me the pressure comes from a minority of trans women, as well as activists who are not necessarily trans themselves.

They described being harassed and silenced if they tried to discuss the issue openly. I received online abuse myself when I tried to find interviewees using social media.


One of the lesbian women I spoke to, 24-year-old Amy*, told me she experienced verbal abuse from her own girlfriend, a bisexual woman who wanted them to have a threesome with a trans woman.
When Amy explained her reasons for not wanting to, her girlfriend became angry.
"The first thing she called me was transphobic," Amy said. "She immediately jumped to make me feel guilty about not wanting to sleep with someone."

She said the trans woman in question had not undergone genital surgery, so still had a penis.
"I know there is zero possibility for me to be attracted to this person," said Amy, who lives in the south west of England and works in a small print and design studio.

"I can hear their male vocal chords. I can see their male jawline. I know, under their clothes, there is male genitalia. These are physical realities, that, as a woman who likes women, you can't just ignore."
Amy said she would feel this way even if a trans woman had undergone genital surgery - which some opt for, while many don't.
Soon afterwards Amy and her girlfriend split up.

"I remember she was extremely shocked and angry, and claimed my views were extremist propaganda and inciting violence towards the trans community, as well as comparing me to far-right groups," she said.

'I felt very bad for hating every moment'​

Another lesbian woman, 26-year-old Chloe*, said she felt so pressured she ended up having penetrative sex with a trans woman at university after repeatedly explaining she was not interested.
They lived near each other in halls of residence. Chloe had been drinking alcohol and does not think she could have given proper consent.
"I felt very bad for hating every moment, because the idea is we are attracted to gender rather than sex, and I did not feel that, and I felt bad for feeling like that," she said.

Ashamed and embarrassed, she decided not to tell anyone.
"The language at the time was very much 'trans women are women, they are always women, lesbians should date them'. And I was like, that's the reason I rejected this person. Does that make me bad? Am I not going to be allowed to be in the LGBT community anymore? Am I going to face repercussions for that instead?' So I didn't actually tell anyone."

Hearing about experiences like these led one lesbian activist to begin researching the topic. Angela C. Wild is co-founder of Get The L Out, whose members believe the rights of lesbians are being ignored by much of the current LGBT movement.
She and her fellow activists have demonstrated at Pride marches in the UK, where they have faced opposition. Pride in London accused the group of "bigotry, ignorance and hate".
"Lesbians are still extremely scared to speak because they think they won't be believed, because the trans ideology is so silencing everywhere," she said.

Angela created a questionnaire for lesbians and distributed it via social media, then published the results.
She said that of the 80 women who did respond, 56% reported being pressured or coerced to accept a trans woman as a sexual partner.
While acknowledging the sample may not be representative of the wider lesbian community, she believes it was important to capture their "points of view and stories".
As well as experiencing pressure to go on dates or engage in sexual activity with trans women, some of the respondents reported being successfully persuaded to do so.

"I thought I would be called a transphobe or that it would be wrong of me to turn down a trans woman who wanted to exchange nude pictures," one wrote. "Young women feel pressured to sleep with trans women 'to prove I am not a terf'."
One woman reported being targeted in an online group. "I was told that homosexuality doesn't exist and I owed it to my trans sisters to unlearn my 'genital confusion' so I can enjoy letting them penetrate me," she wrote.


One compared going on dates with trans women to so-called conversion therapy - the controversial practice of trying to change someone's sexual orientation.
"I knew I wasn't attracted to them but internalised the idea that it was because of my 'transmisogyny' and that if I dated them for long enough I could start to be attracted to them. It was DIY conversion therapy," she wrote.
Another reported a trans woman physically forcing her to have sex after they went on a date.

"[They] threatened to out me as a terf and risk my job if I refused to sleep with [them]," she wrote. "I was too young to argue and had been brainwashed by queer theory so [they were] a 'woman' even if every fibre of my being was screaming throughout so I agreed to go home with [them]. [They] used physical force when I changed my mind upon seeing [their] penis and raped me."
While welcomed by some in the LGBT community, Angela's report was described as transphobic by others.
"[People said] we are worse than rapists because we [supposedly] try to frame every trans woman as a rapist," said Angela.
"This is not the point. The point is that if it happens we need to speak about it. If it happens to one woman it's wrong. As it turns out it happens to more than one woman."

Trans YouTuber Rose of Dawn has discussed the issue on her channel in a video called "Is Not Dating Trans People 'Transphobic'?"
"This is something I've seen happen in real life to friends of mine. This was happening before I actually started my channel and it was one of the things that spurred it on," said Rose.
"What's happening is women who are attracted to biological females and female genitalia are finding themselves put in very awkward positions, where if for example on a dating website a trans woman approaches them and they say 'sorry I'm not into trans women', then they are labelled as transphobic."

Rose made the video in response to a series of tweets by trans athlete Veronica Ivy, then known as Rachel McKinnon, who wrote about hypothetical scenarios where trans people are rejected, and argued that "genital preferences" are transphobic.
I asked Veronica Ivy if she would speak to me but she did not want to.

Rose believes views like this are "incredibly toxic". She believes the idea that dating preferences are transphobic is being pushed by radical trans activists and their "self-proclaimed allies", who have extreme views which don't reflect the views of trans women she knows in real life.
"Certainly from my own friends group, the trans women I'm friends with, almost all of them agree lesbians are free to exclude trans women from their dating pool," she said.

However, she believes even trans people are afraid to talk openly about this for fear of abuse.
"People like me receive quite a lot of abuse from trans activists and their allies," she said.
"The trans activist side is incredibly rabid against people who they see as stepping out of line."

Debbie Hayton, a science teacher who transitioned in 2012 and writes about trans issues, worries some people transition without realising how hard it will be to form relationships.
Although there is currently little data on the sexual orientation of trans women, she believes most are female-attracted because they are biologically male and most males are attracted to women.
"So when they [trans women] are trying to find partners, when lesbian women say 'we want women', and heterosexual women say they want a heterosexual man, that leaves trans women isolated from relationships, and possibly feeling very let down by society, angry, upset and feeling that the world is out to get them," she said.

Debbie thinks it's fine if a lesbian woman does not want to date a trans woman, but is concerned some are being pressured to do so.
"The way that shaming is used is just horrific; it's emotional manipulation and warfare going on," she said.
"These women who want to form relationships with other biological women are feeling bad about that. How did we get here?"

Stonewall is the largest LGBT organisation in the UK and Europe. I asked the charity about these issues but it was unable to provide anyone for interview. However, in a statement, chief executive Nancy Kelley likened not wanting to date trans people to not wanting to date people of colour, fat people, or disabled people.
She said: "Sexuality is personal and something which is unique to each of us. There is no 'right' way to be a lesbian, and only we can know who we're attracted to.

"Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.
"We know that prejudice is still common in the LGBT+ community, and it's important that we can talk about that openly and honestly."

Stonewall was founded in 1989 by people opposed to what was known as Section 28 - legislation which stopped councils and schools from "promoting" homosexuality. The organisation originally focused on issues affecting lesbian, gay and bisexual people, then in 2015 announced it would campaign for "trans equality".
A new group - LGB Alliance - has been formed partly in response to Stonewall's change of focus, by people who believe the interests of LGB people are being left behind.

"It's fair to say that I didn't expect to have to fight for these rights again, the rights of people whose sexual orientation is towards people of the same sex," said co-founder Bev Jackson, who also co-founded the UK Gay Liberation Front in 1970.
"We sort of thought that battle had been won and it's quite frightening and quite horrifying that we have to fight that battle again."

LGB Alliance says it is particularly concerned about younger and therefore more vulnerable lesbians being pressured into relationships with trans women.
"It's very disturbing that you find people saying 'It doesn't happen, nobody pressures anybody to go to bed with anybody else', but we know this is not the case," said Ms Jackson.

"We know a minority, but still a sizeable minority of trans women, do pressure lesbians to go out with them and have sex with them and it's a very disturbing phenomenon."
I asked Ms Jackson how she knew a "sizeable minority" of trans women were doing this.
She said: "We don't have figures but we are frequently contacted by lesbians who relate their experience in LGBT groups and on dating sites."

'Shyest young women'​

Why does she think there has been so little research?
"I certainly think research on this topic would be discouraged, presumably because it would be characterised as a deliberately discriminatory project," she said.
"But also, the girls and young women themselves, since it's likely the shyest and least experienced young women who are the victims of such encounters, would be loath to discuss them."
LGB Alliance has been described as a hate group, anti-trans and transphobic. However, Ms Jackson insists the group is none of these things, and includes trans people among its supporters.

"This word transphobia has been placed like a dragon in the path to stop discussion about really important issues," she said.
"It's hurtful to our trans supporters, it's hurtful to all our supporters, to be called a hate group when we're the least hateful people you can find."

The term "cotton ceiling" is sometimes used when discussing these issues, but it is controversial.
It stems from "glass ceiling", which refers to an invisible barrier preventing women from climbing to the top of the career ladder. Cotton is a reference to women's underwear, with the phrase intended to represent the difficulty some trans women feel they face when seeking relationships or sex. "Breaking the cotton ceiling" means being able to have sex with a woman.

The term is first thought to have been used in 2012 by a trans porn actress going by the name of Drew DeVeaux. She no longer works in the industry and I have not been able to contact her. However, I spoke to a former porn performer and director who believes she inspired DeVeaux to use it.
Lily Cade, who worked in the industry for 10 years, went by the label "Porn Valley's Gold Star Lesbian" because she only ever had sex with other women.

Lily was asked to do a scene with DeVeaux in Toronto and initially agreed after looking at photos of her. But she backed out in advance after discovering online that she was a trans woman.
"My sex drive was oriented towards women," said Lily. "I couldn't see past the fact that what I was interacting with was male genitalia altered by surgery and not the reproductive organ of a female ape, and I just couldn't get past that."
Feeling guilty, Lily sent DeVeaux an email in which she apologised for being "the worst girl in the whole history of the world".

"I felt really bad about the way that I felt about this, but I did feel that way. I made the choice to say something about it and to back out," she said.
Lily said she was criticised on Twitter at the time, but only among "very fringe queer porno people". However, the concept of the cotton ceiling came to wider attention when it was used in the title of a workshop by Planned Parenthood Toronto.

The title of the workshop was: "Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women", and the description explained how participants would "work together to identify barriers, strategize ways to overcome them, and build community".
It was led by a trans writer and artist who later went to work for Stonewall (the organisation has asked the BBC not to name her because of safeguarding concerns).

"I thought it was kind of gross," said Lily. "The language is gross because you are evoking the metaphor of the glass ceiling, which is about women being oppressed. So saying that if someone doesn't want to have sex with you that person is oppressing you."
The trans woman who led the workshop declined to speak to the BBC, but Planned Parenthood Toronto stood by its decision to hold the workshop.

In a statement sent to the BBC, executive director Sarah Hobbs said the workshop "was never intended to advocate or promote overcoming any individual woman's objections to sexual activity". Instead, she said the workshop explored "the ways in which ideologies of transphobia and transmisogyny impact sexual desire".

Who else was approached?​

In addition to Veronica Ivy, I contacted several other high profile trans women who have either written or spoken about sex and relationships. None of them wanted to speak to me but my editors and I felt it was important to reflect some of their views in this piece.
In a video which has now been deleted, YouTuber Riley J Dennis argued that dating "preferences" are discriminatory.
She asked: "Would you date a trans person, honestly? Think about it for a second. OK, got your answer? Well if you said no, I'm sorry but that's pretty discriminatory."

She explained: "I think the main concern that people have in regards to dating a trans person is that they won't have the genitals that they expect. Because we associate penises with men and vaginas with women, some people think they could never date a trans man with a vagina or a trans woman with a penis.

"But I think that people are more than their genitals. I think you can feel attraction to someone without knowing what's between their legs. And if you were to say that you're only attracted to people with vaginas or people with penises it really feels like you are reducing people just to their genitals."

Another YouTuber, Danielle Piergallini, made a video titled "The Cotton Ceiling: Transphobia, Sex, and Dating (but not transsexuals)".
She said: "I want to talk about the idea that there are a number of people out there who say they're not attracted to trans people, and I think that that is transphobic because any time you're making a broad generalised statement about a group of people that's typically not coming from a good place."

However, she added: "If there is a trans woman who is pre-op and somebody doesn't want to date them because they don't have the genitals that match their preference, that's obviously understandable."
Novelist and poet Roz Kaveney wrote an article called "Some Thoughts on the Cotton Ceiling" and another called "More Cotton Ceiling".
"What is always going on is an assumption that the person is the current status of their bits, and the history of their bits," she wrote in the first article.
"Which is about as reductive a model of sexual attraction as I can imagine."

While this debate was once seen as a fringe issue, most of the interviewees who spoke to me said it has become prominent in recent years because of social media.
Ani O'Brien, spokeswoman for a New Zealand group called Speak Up For Women, created a TikTok video aimed at younger lesbians.

Ani, who is 30, told the BBC she is concerned for the generation of lesbians who are now in their teens.
"What we are seeing is a regression where once again young lesbians are being told 'How do you know you don't like dick if you haven't tried it?'" she said.
"We get told we should be looking beyond genitals and should accept that someone says they are a woman, and that's not what homosexuality is.

"You don't see as many trans men interested in gay men so they don't get it [the pressure] as much, but you do see a lot of trans women who are interested in women, so we are disproportionately affected by it."
Ani believes these kind of messages are confusing for young lesbians.

"I remember being a teenager in the closet and trying desperately to be straight, and that was hard enough," she said.
"I can't imagine what it would have been like, if I'd finally come to terms with the fact I was gay, to then be faced with the idea that some male bodies are not male so they must be lesbian, and having to contend with that as well."

Ani says she gets contacted on Twitter by young lesbians who do not know how to exit a relationship with a trans woman.
"They tried to do the right thing and they gave them a chance, and realised that they are a lesbian and they didn't want to be with someone with a male body, and the concept of transphobia and bigotry is used as an emotional weapon, that you can't leave because otherwise you're a transphobe," she said.

Like others who have voiced their concerns, Ani has received abuse online.
"I've been incited to kill myself, I've had rape threats," she said. However, she says she is determined to keep speaking out.
"A really important thing for us to do is to be able to talk these things through. Shutting down these conversations and calling them bigotry is really unhelpful, and it shouldn't be beyond our ability to have hard conversations about some of these things."

*The BBC has changed the names of some of those featured in this article to protect their identities.

 

[Fish Fudge]

your approach is way too offensive to indulge. i'm really not at all like the train wrecks you terf twats taunt mercilessly and don't feel any need to validate myself to a malicious, misinformed, misandrous millennial mental midget. there's much more to womanhood than reproductive behavior. i don't act like a man in many ways, most of which few here would believe because they insist on interacting with me aggressively like manly women defending their breeder sisters.

You're a gross charicature, at best. Though, feel free to continue down the line of "I'm not like the other boys/girls/transboys/transgirls" nonsense, that's always fun to see.

And it's also just not true. You're posting GIFs, copy-pasting talking points that address nothing, posting diagrams as if that has any tangible connection to the topic, before finally defaulting to the same "FUCK TERFS" mindset that exists in every tranny-trainwreck we see here.

It's obvious you've just taken on a whole list of bad talking points without questioning any of them, and that incel-muscle in your brain is twitching again because those mean people on Kiwi Farms don't agree with them.

 

[Baloney Face]

Rothblatt? Jewish despite appearances?

Life imitates art. Remember Rachel Rosen / Priss Stratton?

 

[Toluene Blood]

Martine Rothblatt, I assume? I saw bits about his robot wife and just the still images I saw were creepy enough, but goddamn, you have to see it in action to really take it all in:

Damn it's more horrifying than I remember. No wonder they kept it to readings only so the insanity wouldn't leak through too much. It's absolutely laughable that any of her memories, much less her essence, would be in there, considering they didn't even get her voice right.

 

[The Lawgiver]

A friend of mine a while ago was going on about gender shit and explaining how he wasn't trans but occasionally had intrusive thoughts and shit where it just goes "you're trans" and talking about how he was doing research on trans shit and after I made an observation about the oversaturation of gendershit in media right now and a joking comment about the whole fucked "egg hatcher" subculture to try calming him down he suddenly claimed I was transphobic. Like unironically, despite us joking about this shit before he's now like "You're transphobic and don't know it yet trust me I know a lot of trans and nonbinary people I'm a well adjusted adult" I'm concerned he's getting sucked into the politics hivemind machine because I've never displayed any fear irrational or otherwise of trans people and have known and had friendships and aquaintenceships with trannies throughout my life. He's apperently going to a college right now and stressed as fuck so I gotta wonder/worry about that shit. I don't know what does this shit to people I'm just hoping it doesn't end up like the other guy i knew that went missing for months after going to college only to suddenly show up only to make a big stink about leaving and deleting everything though that time was completely unrelated to trans discussion shit. I swear to god whatever the hells going on at colleges right now is doing shit to people and it fucks me up I got screwed out of going to college before whatever the fuck is going on with colleges is going on now these past few years.

Weird tangents aside, what I'm basically trying to say is, why in the fuck is the term "transphobia" so god damn meaningless these days? Homophobia is ually lumped in there but I've seen more claims of transphobia over weird shit than any other thing from those in the current mainstream politics hivemind.

 

[El_Cacahuate]

I just want to complain about the stupid thought that ftms have more "understanding" just because "there is a likelihood that they are carriers of sexual trauma." Damn, why don't we assume the same from the MTF? Surely more than one was abused in some way and now as adults they are screwed.
They say that not all ftm are degenerate but they really are, they only know how to hide it better. mtf invades lesbian spaces but ftm does the same to yaoi's fandom, and i'm really tired of seeing tranny shit labeled yaoi/gay