Good Games With Shitty Sequels - How did they mess it up so bad?

[Calandrino]

 

[Whoopsie Daisy]

Gears of war to Gears 2 and 3.

GoW 1 was a survival horror-ish shooter with hulking space marine men wanting to save the world against impossible odds. It has humour come from the humour guy, Baird (remember when humour was only restricted to the 'smart-arse' character?) and seriousness come from the serious guy, Marcus, it has direction and lead from Dom and optimism from Cole. Comic relief provided by Kenny, i mean, Carmine.
The world was dark and gritty. Death was gruesome and on harder difficulties, it happened a fair bit.
The OG berzerker scene was pretty rad for a heart thumping sprint to safety.

Gears 2 threw all of that away. It became colourful, the online was terrible, buggy and Epic refused to fix it because they hated the shotgun, for which Blizzinsky et al can all go flip off of a hightower because changing Gears from close-up death to lancering-at-distance, made it Gears of duty and shit.
The characters became OTT versions of themselves, the story, especially in 3, became so over the top and cartoonish that the horror of the world was just ignored.

[I was going to insert an image of some smug fat epic games developer cunt saying "the only problem with gears of war 2 is that it's too good, but the image has been scrubbed]

 

[Travis Touchdown (REAL)]

I like No More Heroes 2 but it's a fucking chore to play.

 

[Big Miss Steak]

Came out in 2022 but I still seethe whenever I think about it. I thought the relationship between Hugo and Amicia in the first game was super sweet. The second game builds on that relationship and sets up a potential cure for Hugo's curse, with him receiving visions of a place that can heal him (he's getting sicker as his power grows iirc).

Spoiler

Due to a simple misunderstanding, Hugo releases his full power, which will wipe out the world unless Amicia kills him. The game makes you control Amicia as you sling a rock through Hugo's skull. Cut to Amicia sometime later living in the wilderness as a depressed hermit, mourning how Hugo never got to live a normal life as a healthy child. She decides to set out and search the world for the next "carrier" since it's a cyclical thing, and to guide them, but Lord knows how she'll be able to really help them.

Just seemed like a massive middle finger to the audience, or perhaps an attempt to be artsy and edgy by choosing the most depressing outcome possible.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

Ninja Gaiden 3 on the 360/PS3. It got a lot of shit and when I first started playing it I couldn't understand why, it was perfectly fine... for a little bit. Rocket Launcher dudes can suck my dick. There's a lot of them, outside your field of vision, always at the edges of the battle arena and they're shooting rockets at you from all angles. The strategy is to beeline towards them first and take them out, ignoring everything else. Otherwise your ass will be juggled by explosions. Not particularly fun.
Then they introduce the alchemists. Not just one so you can figure out what this new enemy is all about, no, no no no, three at once. Kill one and a new one jumps in so there's still three of them. This enemy is absolute bullshit. I actually had to consult youtube to see if there was anything I was missing and got a video about how they can be cheeses by doing 100 Izuna drops in a row. Not fun.

Speaking of shitty Ninja Gaiden sequels, PS3 Ninja Gaiden 2 is crap and it's the version they ported to the PC. There's this awesome moment towards the end when you're running up some huge stairs and there's just tons and tons of ninjas attacking you with more and more arriving. Ninjas are basically scrub enemies at this point but it's a great moment.
Look at this(but imagine it at 8-12 FPS on the 360):

The PS3/PC version reduces that to ~5 ninjas at the time.

This was an issue throughout the game, they had to reduce number of enemies on screen. Bullshit!

 

[Thiletonomics]

RollerCoaster Tycoon World was the equivalent of SimCity 2013 and The Sims 4, to the RCT franchise. Not only was it made by a different development team than the originals, but it supposedly went through 3 different development studios during its 2 years or so of development, and it was rushed to release it just before Planet Coaster's release date:

It also is another example of how Atari is a literal zombie company, with the shovelware crap they release like this.

 

[Fraiser crane]

Dragon age
Crysis

 

[BABANGUIDE64]

Sequels? More like "SUCKuels"....

 

[74164978231]

Kerbal Space Program 2.

I never fell for this one though. Before it came out as "early access" it was way too obvious it was going to go down in flames.

Homeworld 3 basically get rid of all the things that made homeworld somewhat believable the sci-fi setting and replace it with a bunch of generic sci-fi nonsense and a game that looks really good but actually ruins the entire setting of the series I'll still say that the uh expansion for the original game is still one of the most horrifying sequels legitimately the alien space monster which is literally infecting the machines of all the intergalactic species is generally terrifying.

Is there a time limit on this before its just IP skinwalker rape? Like 20 years between HW2 and 3.

Good god though was it was unbelievably awful. Its painfully clear the idiots behind HW3 had absolutely zero understanding of the storytelling and themes behind HW1 & 2. I really think they are too stupid to comprehend what was going on.

Seeing as how HW1 is probably my second favorite game behind Deus Ex, I would have committed suicide if you told teenage me there would be a HW3 and Sajet is going to larp as a stage 3 cancer patient undergoing chemo.

 

[Jade Goody]

RollerCoaster Tycoon World was the equivalent of SimCity 2013 and The Sims 4, to the RCT franchise. Not only was it made by a different development team than the originals, but it supposedly went through 3 different development studios during its 2 years or so of development, and it was rushed to release it just before Planet Coaster's release date:

It also is another example of how Atari is a literal zombie company, with the shovelware crap they release like this.

The mobile RCT is such a good port.

 

[Calandrino]

Look at this(but imagine it at 8-12 FPS on the 360):
[...]
The PS3/PC version reduces that to ~5 ninjas at the time.

Well gee, I wonder why. And tbh I think even 8 fps might be overestimating it. imo Sigma 2 is a wash at worst, the original version was massively flawed.

 

[Book Thief]

Even Miyamoto agrees. It's his most disappointing creation.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but all you Zelda 2 haters are taking that interview out of context.

Here's the full quote: (Source)

"I wouldn't say that I've ever made a bad game, per se, but a game I think we could have done more with was Zelda II: The Adventure of Link. When we're designing games, we have our plan for what we're going to design but in our process it evolves and grows from there. In Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, unfortunately all we ended up creating was what we had originally planned on paper. I think specifically in the case of Zelda II we had a challenge just in terms of what the hardware was capable of doing. So one thing, of course, that I would have liked the game to been like is, from a hardware perspective, if we had been able to have the switch between the scenes speed up, if that had been faster, we could have done more with how we used the sidescrolling vs. the overhead view and kind of the interchange between the two. But, because of the limitations on how quickly those scenes changed, we weren't able to. The other thing is it would have been nice to have had bigger enemies in the game, but the Famicom/NES hardware wasn't capable of doing that. Certainly, with hardware nowadays you can do that and we have done that, but of course nowadays creating bigger enemies takes a lot of effort."

You'll notice that he never once dogs on the game design, and instead focuses on how he was hamstrung by hardware limitations at the time. Particularly, he was disappointed by the long loading screens that happened between combat and overworld screens.

Now, I reckon most of you are non-Japanese and are scratching your heads about "long loading times," when the game basically loads almost instantaneously. That's because, in Japan, the game was released on the Famicom Disc System, which ran on floppy discs, which, yes, had massive loading times between those segments:

So he's not saying Zelda 2 is a shit game (Because it's not, it's a fucking fantastic and underrated title). He's saying that the game was held back by shitty hardware he had to work with at the time.

 

[Scarthew]

(it was a racing game engine used for a FPS)

This is a really tired observation thats not even entirely true. Engines aren't "made for" genres theyre just ways of compiling code and the vast majority of games made in diesel aren't racing games. Even then payday 2 runs on a heavily modified version of it made explicitly for payday 2.

Also deus ex comes to mind, legendary first game, awful sequel, forgettable reboot.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Ninja Gaiden 3 on the 360/PS3. It got a lot of shit and when I first started playing it I couldn't understand why, it was perfectly fine... for a little bit. Rocket Launcher dudes can suck my dick. There's a lot of them, outside your field of vision, always at the edges of the battle arena and they're shooting rockets at you from all angles. The strategy is to beeline towards them first and take them out, ignoring everything else. Otherwise your ass will be juggled by explosions. Not particularly fun.
Then they introduce the alchemists. Not just one so you can figure out what this new enemy is all about, no, no no no, three at once. Kill one and a new one jumps in so there's still three of them. This enemy is absolute bullshit. I actually had to consult youtube to see if there was anything I was missing and got a video about how they can be cheeses by doing 100 Izuna drops in a row. Not fun.

Speaking of shitty Ninja Gaiden sequels, PS3 Ninja Gaiden 2 is crap and it's the version they ported to the PC. There's this awesome moment towards the end when you're running up some huge stairs and there's just tons and tons of ninjas attacking you with more and more arriving. Ninjas are basically scrub enemies at this point but it's a great moment.
Look at this(but imagine it at 8-12 FPS on the 360):

The PS3/PC version reduces that to ~5 ninjas at the time.

This was an issue throughout the game, they had to reduce number of enemies on screen. Bullshit!

Are these issues remedied in the most recent collection for Switch? These deserve full remakes.

So he's not saying Zelda 2 is a shit game (Because it's not, it's a fucking fantastic and underrated title).

It's kinda shitty really. The controls are slippery and your sword feels too stubby, plus the music sucks badly (they're actually well written, later versions of the songs on different hardware sound amazing, but the in-game versions are bad). It's not always that clear how to progress either.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

Are these issues remedied in the most recent collection for Switch? These deserve full remakes.

Nope! That's also the remastered version available on every other platform.

 

[Caligura]

View attachment 6806462
I like No More Heroes 2 but it's a fucking chore to play.

No More Heroes 1&2 are a perfect duology. But I hate No More Heroes 3. Doesn't help also that they don't make it obvious that you kinda needed to play TSA before NMH3 because I had zero idea who Bad Dad was or what happened to Henry.

 

[Paintrick S Canlinson]

Kingdom Come Deliverance

 

[Book Thief]

It's kinda shitty really. The controls are slippery and your sword feels too stubby, plus the music sucks badly (they're actually well written, later versions of the songs on different hardware sound amazing, but the in-game versions are bad). It's not always that clear how to progress either.

Hard disagree. The controls don't feel any different than, say, Super Mario Bros on the same system, and that game's beloved by pretty much all.

As for the combat, it's honestly perfectly fine. I think way too many people approach this game like some kind of brainless button-masher, when you actually have to (gasp) PAY ATTENTION in order to survive. The Iron Knuckles are there to train you on the basics of using your shield, because it is your most-vital asset through-out the entire game. A lot of people complain that you only get the Sword Beam at full health, but the thing is, you're not supposed to rely on it. I know it's a Game Journalist cliche, but it's really confuses me how games like Dark Souls get so much love for this kind of thing when Zelda 2 pretty much had it nailed 25 years prior.

As for puzzles, there's honestly hardly any. There's only a real couple of moments that I'd say necessitate a guide (Finding New Kasuto, using the SPELL spell, navigating the Grand Palace), but even so, the original Legend of Zelda is just as guilty of "Nintendo Power Moments," if not more-so, which again, is a beloved game. Everything else is pretty-much just a straight-forward action game, with a fair amount of clues offered to progress.

And while I'm at it, I might as well address the most-common complaint I hear about this game: the fact that you always respawn at Zelda's palace. Honestly, it doesn't hurt the game at all. The Overworld is small enough that it's only a couple-minute trek back to where you were, with plenty of shortcuts opening up as you acquire new gear. As long as you stick to the roads, you don't get any random encounters. Even if they collide with you while you're on the road, you don't fight any monsters. Plus, almost every Palace has a statue at the start that you can use to regain your magic, so if you got hit on the way there, you can easily refill your Health with the LIFE spell.

Let's face it: the only reason people hate on Zelda 2 is because "It's not like the other Zelda games!" Which is a pretty dogshit reason, if I'm being brutally honest.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Hard disagree. The controls don't feel any different than, say, Super Mario Bros on the same system, and that game's beloved by pretty much all.

Maybe but they have very different focuses, it doesn't feel good for more than just bopping on an enemy as you run by.

As for the combat, it's honestly perfectly fine. I think way too many people approach this game like some kind of brainless button-masher, when you actually have to (gasp) PAY ATTENTION in order to survive. The Iron Knuckles are there to train you on the basics of using your shield, because it is your most-vital asset through-out the entire game. A lot of people complain that you only get the Sword Beam at full health, but the thing is, you're not supposed to rely on it. I know it's a Game Journalist cliche, but it's really confuses me how games like Dark Souls get so much love for this kind of thing when Zelda 2 pretty much had it nailed 25 years prior.

I'm not saying it's unplayable but it's unenjoyable and not fun, it's tedious. Maybe if the RPG mechanics were more fleshed out it'd be worth engaging with, Zelda 2 would be perfect for a remake.

As for puzzles, there's honestly hardly any. There's only a real couple of moments that I'd say necessitate a guide (Finding New Kasuto, using the SPELL spell, navigating the Grand Palace), but even so, the original Legend of Zelda is just as guilty of "Nintendo Power Moments," if not more-so, which again, is a beloved game. Everything else is pretty-much just a straight-forward action game, with a fair amount of clues offered to progress.

That's something both of the NES Zeldas suffer with, kinda just throwing you into the world with minimal guidance. Some may see it as a good thing but LttP is where the series really found its footing.

And while I'm at it, I might as well address the most-common complaint I hear about this game: the fact that you always respawn at Zelda's palace. Honestly, it doesn't hurt the game at all. The Overworld is small enough that it's only a couple-minute trek back to where you were, with plenty of shortcuts opening up as you acquire new gear. As long as you stick to the roads, you don't get any random encounters. Even if they collide with you while you're on the road, you don't fight any monsters. Plus, almost every Palace has a statue at the start that you can use to regain your magic, so if you got hit on the way there, you can easily refill your Health with the LIFE spell.

Sounds like a legitimate criticism on real hardware, but most people playing it nowadays would be utilizing save states anyway.

Let's face it: the only reason people hate on Zelda 2 is because "It's not like the other

That's a lot of it, certainly, and I agree it's not a good reason, Star Fox Adventures faces a lot of the same type of dumb hate. But Zelda 2 is clunky and archaic, those are fair criticisms. It's playable, not broken, you can "git gud", but it isn't fun.

 

[femoralcanal]

God of War Ragnarok was an absolute joke

Maybe my second biggest disappointment in gaming, right behind not being able to play as the Bigot Sandwicher in TLoU2.

Seriously now, I'm aware TLoU2 is an easy target, but that game almost destroyed my love for western games. I put my money on Ragnarok to save it but instead it finished cemeting its grave and then took a dump on it.

Haven't bought a single western game since and I'm honestly surprised how I don't miss them at all.