Good Games With Shitty Sequels - How did they mess it up so bad?

[Book Thief]

Sounds like a legitimate criticism on real hardware, but most people playing it nowadays would be utilizing save states anyway.

I played it on both the NES and the GBA SP. Beaten it on the SP a few times at least. I can say with confidence it was not a deal breaker to me, but I was a middle-schooler and my parents took me on several road- and camping-trips, so maybe I just had more spare time to get acquainted with it than most people do these days.

Maybe but they have very different focuses, it doesn't feel good for more than just bopping on an enemy as you run by.

You do get to do that later on, but I reckon the devs wanted you to get good at sword-fighting before they gave it to you. It's likely the reason why you don't get it until after you beat Death Mountain, which is pretty much the game's first real difficulty spike. I know for a fact that once I do, I just use it to surf past Dodongos on my way to Darunia and Maze Island.

But Zelda 2 is clunky and archaic, those are fair criticisms

Clunky how, exactly? The controls aren't a problem, nor is the combat. I see an Iron Knuckle swinging his sword low, so I press down to block his attack. I don't really see what's so "clunky" about that.

There's not really a whole lot of glitches that ruin the general experience, either. That "Fairy Warp" thing is something you specifically have to go out of your way for. The hit detection is pretty spot-on, too, so no complaints there.

As for being archaic, that just comes with the territory of being a product of the 80's, where games were bullshit hard for the sake of either sucking up quarters or padding out the game's miniscule length. Not really a problem that's unique to Zelda 2, which I think handles it better than most games of its era.

I'm not saying it's unplayable but it's unenjoyable and not fun, it's tedious.

It's playable, not broken, you can "git gud", but it isn't fun.

"Fun" is always a subjective thing. I personally really enjoy the 2D sword-fighting action the game has on-offer, to the point where every now and then I boot up the Randomizer, because vanilla Zelda 2 just doesn't cut it for me anymore.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I played it on both the NES and the GBA SP. Beaten it on the SP a few times at least. I can say with confidence it was not a deal breaker to me, but I was a middle-schooler and my parents took me on several road- and camping-trips, so maybe I just had more spare time to get acquainted with it than most people do these days.

There's probably something to that. Having a small number of games as a kid means you're more willing to contend with the flaws of a game and see its strengths. Booting it up as a ROM among thousands though, it's easy to just drop it and not give it the attention it normally would get.

You do get to do that later on, but I reckon the devs wanted you to get good at sword-fighting before they gave it to you. It's likely the reason why you don't get it until after you beat Death Mountain, which is pretty much the game's first real difficulty spike. I know for a fact that once I do, I just use it to surf past Dodongos on my way to Darunia and Maze Island.

I see, sounds good that you can kind of just get past them later on. It's funny to think it becomes more Mario-like.

Clunky how, exactly? The controls aren't a problem, nor is the combat.

In LoZ/LttP or Secret of Mana you don't go sliding like you're on ice after coming to a stop. That lends a clunky feel to engaging in combat. You can adapt but it's not something you go "wow I'm sure glad Link slides as if on ice, it feels good".

I see an Iron Knuckle swinging his sword low, so I press down to block his attack. I don't really see what's so "clunky" about that.

Fast combat, stubby sword, and slippery physics definitely adds up to clunkiness in my book.

There's not really a whole lot of glitches that ruin the general experience, either. That "Fairy Warp" thing is something you specifically have to go out of your way for. The hit detection is pretty spot-on, too, so no complaints there.

Isn't the final boss infamous for having such bad hit detection that you can sit in the corner and just automatically win because he can't hit you?

Hit detection in general is technically fine most of the time (I think I remember suffering some iffy fireballs hits) because your little knife hits where it's supposed to, problem is...it's a little knife, not a sword.

As for being archaic, that just comes with the territory of being a product of the 80's, where games were bullshit hard for the sake of either sucking up quarters or padding out the game's miniscule length. Not really a problem that's unique to Zelda 2, which I think handles it better than most games of its era.

I agree, it holds up better than most NES games. I still wouldn't put it in the upper tier of NES games where Mario and Kirby dwell, but still it aged reasonably well.

"Fun" is always a subjective thing. I personally really enjoy the 2D sword-fighting action the game has on-offer, to the point where every now and then I boot up the Randomizer, because vanilla Zelda 2 just doesn't cut it for me anymore.

I'm kinda like that with Mario Land. It's one of my favorite games, and one of the few I played ROM hacks of just because I enjoy the physics, but they're objectively clunky. We can enjoy and get good at stuff that's not honed to godly perfection, and I guess things don't really need to be. Quirks give games personality even if they don't click with everyone.

 

[Book Thief]

In LoZ/LttP or Secret of Mana you don't go sliding like you're on ice after coming to a stop. That lends a clunky feel to engaging in combat. You can adapt but it's not something you go "wow I'm sure glad Link slides as if on ice, it feels good".

Except Link comes to an instantaneous dead stop if you press the attack button, so it doesn't really become an issue in combat. He only retains his momentum if you're airborne.

I see, sounds good that you can kind of just get past them later on. It's funny to think it becomes more Mario-like.

Yep. This is the game from which Link in the Smash Bros games gets his Up- and Down-Aerial. He even makes the same pose in the Smash games as he did in Zelda 2, which is a fun nod.

Isn't the final boss infamous for having such bad hit detection that you can sit in the corner and just automatically win because he can't hit you?

True, the US release introduced some kind of bug that allowed the player to defeat Dark Link by crouching in the left corner and spamming the attack button. Not sure what caused it exactly, because it doesn't exist in the FDS release. Still, it's a bug in favor of the player, so hardly anything to complain about unless you're the type who prides themselves on the "Gamer Cred" of beating Dark Link without abusing the exploit.

 

[Calandrino]

Are these issues remedied in the most recent collection for Switch? These deserve full remakes.

Nope! That's also the remastered version available on every other platform.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it had:

Sigma 1 (not "ruined" but most people like Black better)
Sigma 2 (the one that only I like apparently)
3 Razor's Edge (best version, minus some online stuff)

we deserve better tho

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it had:

Sigma 1 (not "ruined" but most people like Black better)
Sigma 2 (the one that only I like apparently)
3 Razor's Edge (best version, minus some online stuff)

we deserve better tho

Seems about right, never played the original NG3 though, I only it(and Sigma 2) as part of the Master Ninja Collection.

 

[Monk Amen]

I LOVED KSP when it launched on steam, building retarded contraptions and maybe an actually worthwhile rocket was fun, and the modability made for a spectacular space themed sandbox.

KSP 2 is a fucking travesty, with a current version lacking more than the original. You cant hate chink game companies enough.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

Can't wait for Ghost of Yotei to wind up on this list.

 

[M3xus]

Star Fox is never going to escape 64's shadow.

To be completely fair, Assault's main flaw is being too short. A lot of the design decisions and the short length make more sense after digging up interviews where it was revealed it was supposed to be a multiplayer arcade title, and Nintendo changed their minds halfway through and they had to scramble to make it a single-player Gamecube title. I'd still like Project Aces to take another stab at it, but Nintendo's gotten even worse with their stuff, so I doubt it'll happen.