GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[Stasi]

I've been looking at old optiplex and other SFF office machines and options for GPUs to possibly turn my old PC into a living room multimedia/gaming machine. GPU prices in general seem to be coming down but sadly the situation with small form factor cards is still pretty dire. Looking at workstation cards I came across this, a tiny 70W card with RTX 3050 performance. Would be ideal for me but the prices are stupid high

 

[AmpleApricots]

from my experience undervolting the rx580 did not do much, first of all the linux amdgpu drivers, I don't know wtf they're doing, they happily accept different values but from my measurements they don't really do anything. You can even write things that definitively won't work (-50% voltage) and the drivers will happily accept and display the value (if the BIOS is unlocked to accept this as minimum) but nothing really happens. then there's the power consumption measurement which sometimes goes over what the entire system consumes so I have no idea how that is determined. (I can forgive them that though, it is not easy)

The only way to get changes to stick was to flash the bios. The card stayed stable with a 12% undervolt, which maybe brought a few watts. I actually am not entirely sure if the card even respects the bios settings or the firmware or does something more complicated. I'm doing this mostly now to keep the card cooler and it didn't do a whole lot.

The only thing really making an impact is limiting the p-states (excluding the top overclock ones which have a very disproportionate impact on power consumption and heat development to what they actually are worth) and setting a watt target for the card which surprisingly works really well, which kinda lends credibility to my theory that the firmware suffers from excessive cleverness and there's actually relatively little you can do to really affect it.

Also the card's fans in graphically intense games made my case sound like there are angry hornets on meth caught inside. I ended up taking the cards fans off (deshrouding it's called) and sticking two 120mmx25mm fans I had lying around, some no name chinese parts that came with some cheap case 15 years ago, not all that quiet but subjectively about 1/3 the noise the cards' fans are. (and in a frequency where my noise canceling headphones can almost completely filter the sound to the point it's not audible if they actually play something back at the same time) The size of the cards heatsinks and fans is exactly in a way where they almost touch the heatsinks, but not quite, so ideal. Dropped 10C right off the card too. Why do they stick these shitty fans on graphics cards?

I ordered both two Arctic P12 (~7 euros a piece) and two Noctua NF-A12. (~27 euros a piece) ~55 euros for two fans is staggeringly nuts so I expect them to be noticeably better than the Arctic ones or they go back. I have the feeling I can get the card really quiet even in demanding games, which would be nice. I wrote my own daemon who turns off the fans if the card is off and otherwise just keeps them to certain speeds at preset values. (fans adjusting up and down with heat are more noticeable than fans that just run at one constant speed all the time)

Thanks for reading my rx580 experience blog!

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

I've been looking at old optiplex and other SFF office machines and options for GPUs to possibly turn my old PC into a living room multimedia/gaming machine. GPU prices in general seem to be coming down but sadly the situation with small form factor cards is still pretty dire. Looking at workstation cards I came across this, a tiny 70W card with RTX 3050 performance. Would be ideal for me but the prices are stupid high

Don't expect RTX prices to come down significantly (unless maybe used). You're always going to get raped... not as badly as for a Tesla server card or whatever they renamed those to, but still raped.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

I've been looking at old optiplex and other SFF office machines and options for GPUs to possibly turn my old PC into a living room multimedia/gaming machine.

I'd like to go full Atom for a media PC, but something nice like the Alder Lake-N with 8 cores and AV1 decode. Or aim for Optiplex, Acer Aspire XC, etc with i5-11400(T) if they go cheap. There's also rumors about a new Nvidia Shield TV.

Getting your old PC to do that could be the best option of all, and it might be the only good place for an Intel Arc A380.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Which Intel® Graphics Products Support DirectX 9* (DX9)?​

Summary
Brief description of system compatibility with DX9*.

Description
Does my system with Intel Graphics support DX9?

Resolution
12th generation Intel processor's integrated GPU and Arc discrete GPU no longer support D3D9 natively. Applications and games based on DirectX 9 can still work through Microsoft* D3D9On12 interface.
The integrated GPU on 11th generation and older Intel processors supports DX9 natively, but they can be combined with Arc graphics cards. If so, rendering is likely to be handled by the card and not the iGPU (unless the card is disabled). Thus, the system will be using DX9On12 instead of DX9.
Since DirectX is property of and is sustained by Microsoft, troubleshooting of DX9 apps and games issues require promoting any findings to Microsoft Support so they can include the proper fixes in their next update of the operating system and the DirectX APIs.

Well...

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Well...

WINE on Windows heheh

 

[DNA_JACKED]

I've been looking at old optiplex and other SFF office machines and options for GPUs to possibly turn my old PC into a living room multimedia/gaming machine. GPU prices in general seem to be coming down but sadly the situation with small form factor cards is still pretty dire. Looking at workstation cards I came across this, a tiny 70W card with RTX 3050 performance. Would be ideal for me but the prices are stupid high

The A2000 is what the 3050 should have been. My SFF optiplex 7020 is desperate for a GPU upgrade.

You know what really annoys me about SFF PCs? If you want a low profile case with 2 expansion slots, you are utterly fucked, nothing exists on the market, other then old optiplex or HP desktops. I've resorted to cutting up the 7020 chassis and wiring in new buttons to make it work.

All the other mini ITX chassis use ATX PSUs. Just...fucking why? SFX has existed for decades, and you dont need more then 1000w in a mini system. So much wasted space.....

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

Well...

DirectX 9 came out in 2002, so it's now almost a decade older than DirectX and even its WinG predecessor were at the time that 9 came out. If Windows is going to provide a translation layer, makes sense to use it.

 

[Aqua Panda]

Any recommendations for a cpu cooler?

I threw together a secondary TV/entertainment center computer awhile back with an AMD stock cooler and the temps are starting to hit the mid 70's more than I like.

I know that ryzen runs hotter by default and generally doesn't thermal throttle till 90c, but I'd like to bring things down a bit.

 

[Stasi]

The A2000 is what the 3050 should have been. My SFF optiplex 7020 is desperate for a GPU upgrade.

You know what really annoys me about SFF PCs? If you want a low profile case with 2 expansion slots, you are utterly fucked, nothing exists on the market, other then old optiplex or HP desktops. I've resorted to cutting up the 7020 chassis and wiring in new buttons to make it work.

All the other mini ITX chassis use ATX PSUs. Just...fucking why? SFX has existed for decades, and you dont need more then 1000w in a mini system. So much wasted space.....

One other piece of stupidity I discovered in my research...both Dell and HP on their SFF computers slam the x16 PCIe slot right next to the PSU so you can only add a single slot card, the other free slot is x4 only which would gimp any GPU you would put in there. Just ..why? This seems like a really idiotic design decision and Lenovo are not part of this retarded decision making but Lenovo SFF PCs with an 1150 mobo are very hard to find where I am. I might just sell my old PC and give up on my HTPC idea.

 

[DNA_JACKED]

DirectX 9 came out in 2002, so it's now almost a decade older than DirectX and even its WinG predecessor were at the time that 9 came out. If Windows is going to provide a translation layer, makes sense to use it.

Except it doesnt, intel STRUGGLES with DX9 games, hard.

Any recommendations for a cpu cooler?

I threw together a secondary TV/entertainment center computer awhile back with an AMD stock cooler and the temps are starting to hit the mid 70's more than I like.

I know that ryzen runs hotter by default and generally doesn't thermal throttle till 90c, but I'd like to bring things down a bit.

Which CPU and which case are you using?

One other piece of stupidity I discovered in my research...both Dell and HP on their SFF computers slam the x16 PCIe slot right next to the PSU so you can only add a single slot card, the other free slot is x4 only which would gimp any GPU you would put in there. Just ..why? This seems like a really idiotic design decision and Lenovo are not part of this retarded decision making but Lenovo SFF PCs with an 1150 mobo are very hard to find where I am. I might just sell my old PC and give up on my HTPC idea.

It is incredibly retarded, as is their awkward bigger-then-ITX mobos.

The best thing honestly is modding the old case. Cut out the I/O shield with a dremel tool and, at leas the optiplex SFFs, already have mini ITX mount holes. Get jumper extenders and you can connect the front I/O to any normal motherboard.

The PSU is a bit of an issue, but for me I use pico PSUs, which can supply 200w, and where the PSU used to go I drill out the bottom and put a couple intake fans for the GPU. Works really well and those cases are dirt cheap. Some people instead build a custom mount allowing them to put a full height GPU in there sideways, which is really neat.

EDIT: if you are into tiny PCs, and you have some cash, the velka 3 chassis may be to your liking.

https://www.velkase.com/products/velka-3

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Any recommendations for a cpu cooler?

I threw together a secondary TV/entertainment center computer awhile back with an AMD stock cooler and the temps are starting to hit the mid 70's more than I like.

I know that ryzen runs hotter by default and generally doesn't thermal throttle till 90c, but I'd like to bring things down a bit.

I would just go to your local metal shop, buy a 3inx3inx4in solid steel block and jb weld it to your ihc.

 

[King Vidiot]

Any recommendations for a cpu cooler?

I threw together a secondary TV/entertainment center computer awhile back with an AMD stock cooler and the temps are starting to hit the mid 70's more than I like.

I know that ryzen runs hotter by default and generally doesn't thermal throttle till 90c, but I'd like to bring things down a bit.

I think the Ryzen stock coolers will work OK as long as you don't overclock the CPU. Could this be a case airflow issue? Try running the PC with the case open to see if temperatures are drastically lower.
If you go with an aftermarket CPU cooler I can recommend the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. I have been using one on an overclocked i7 for years and it performs very well for its price range.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

DirectX 9 came out in 2002, so it's now almost a decade older than DirectX and even its WinG predecessor were at the time that 9 came out. If Windows is going to provide a translation layer, makes sense to use it.

While I agree with that, aren't there a bunch of eSports games that uses DX9 because absolute everything supports it? Team Fortress 2 is still a DX9 game for example.

My main concern would be that Intels drivers might have problems with Microsofts DX9On12 here and there. Microsofts solution might work perfectly but maybe certain Arc driver versions breaks something, but if a DX9 game is glitchy that is an issue to be reported to MS and not Intel. I'm sure Intel have people actually working to monitor the situation and fix things on that end but it all comes off like a very Brianna "I didn't decide the sysreqs for UE3, if Rev60 runs like shit take it up with Epic" Wu type of thing.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

Except it doesnt, intel STRUGGLES with DX9 games, hard.

While I agree with that, aren't there a bunch of eSports games that uses DX9 because absolute everything supports it? Team Fortress 2 is still a DX9 game for example.

CSGO is too, apparently. Although it seems that the ones that aren't total unmaintained dead ends like League of Legends are looking to move away from DX9, so Indonesian internet cafes might have to buy new PCs from Chinese e-waste recyclers that are only ten years old or so.

I agree that like, really bad graphics faults would be a problem, especially if they occur on games I might actually want to play like Far Cry 2. But if it's a matter of quibbling over 200 fps in CS:GO at 1080p instead of 300 fps on an NVIDIA or AMD card, then I think I'll let the losers playing those joyless twitch shooters quibble about whether they can actually tell the difference (make sure to use platinum plated HDMI cables for best performance).

At this point I'm actually wondering about one of the things from the Arc launch that actually did look bad to me, the occasional spikes in render times when using 'Smooth Sync' to where a frame might actually take long enough to render that you might notice. I don't think any of the reviewers pointed to seeing these primarily in DX9 titles, but if there was some issue with the translation, it seems like that might be where it stuck out.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Any recommendations for a cpu cooler?

I threw together a secondary TV/entertainment center computer awhile back with an AMD stock cooler and the temps are starting to hit the mid 70's more than I like.

I know that ryzen runs hotter by default and generally doesn't thermal throttle till 90c, but I'd like to bring things down a bit.

If you have airflow through the front of the case and the case is on the larger side, I recommend this guy. Generally you can find these for less than $30 and by all accounts it's an excellent cooler for the price.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Ryzen 7000 announcement stream will be on Monday, August 29, at 7 PM EDT.

https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/2022-08-16-amd-to-host-livestream-event-to-unveil-next-generation-ryzen-processors

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/338883-amd-to-announce-ryzen-7000-cpus-on-aug-29

 

[1996 Toyota Camry]

If you go with an aftermarket CPU cooler I can recommend the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. I have been using one on an overclocked i7 for years and it performs very well for its price range.

The 212 Evo has long since been replaced by both the 212X and the current H412R, a much smaller, better cooling cooler with a significantly less retarded mounting mechanism

 

[Second Sun]

Zen 4 out next month

Looks faster than expected, but I'll probably still wait for the 3D versions.

 

[Stasi]

I saw a good deal on an Optiplex 7020 and ended up pulling the trigger on it, it had garbage specs but I was cannibalizing my old desktop for parts anyway so didn't really matter. For the GPU ended up going with a Radeon WX 3100, I used one briefly during the GPU drought and posted about it a while back ITT so know more or less what I'm in for. It was also super cheap compared to other single slot cards available right now (£50).

For a total outlay of about 100 bongland bux I now have a pretty capable HTPC which blows my current Ryzen 2200GE out of the water in terms of performance.

The one thing that I'm a bit worried about is temps, the case is pretty cramped to begin with and the GPU is right up against the PSU so probably isn't getting great airflow. That said, I was messing about with RE2 and it was hitting about 80c which is what others seem to be getting from various vids I've seen so maybe its not so bad for this card.