GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[AmpleApricots]

I ordered both two Arctic P12 (~7 euros a piece) and two Noctua NF-A12. (~27 euros a piece) ~55 euros for two fans is staggeringly nuts so I expect them to be noticeably better than the Arctic ones or they go back. I have the feeling I can get the card really quiet even in demanding games, which would be nice. I wrote my own daemon who turns off the fans if the card is off and otherwise just keeps them to certain speeds at preset values. (fans adjusting up and down with heat are more noticeable than fans that just run at one constant speed all the time)

So, these fans arrived during the downtime. The P12 are very good fans and I can recommend them generally, especially for the price but they are not as silent as the NF-A12. You do hear them, especially at some specific RPM they just seem to make a weird bearing noise. You can avoid that by avoiding these speeds and if you have several of them, it makes sense to vary their speed somewhat so they don't all resonate together. Not ideal but it works, especially for their price. Mind you, that noise also isn't loud or even disruptive, but it is there. The NF-A12 are completely silent by themselves, all you hear is the air they move. That is impressive, but for the price they better be. I'll stick to the NF-A12 because I sit directly in front of the computer.

An interesting thing I noticed, when the GPU gets turned off when not in use, it also loses all settings you applied and when you apply settings while it's off, they don't stick. (the interesting thing is here, at least in this setup, if you run a game in Linux and minimize the game window, this will also put the dGPU to sleep until you go back to the game) That's why my undervolting via amdgpu drivers didn't work. You'd think the drivers just apply the settings automagically whenever the card gets turned on (the driver isn't unloaded after all) but that simply isn't the case, they reset to default, so I expanded the fan daemon to not only turn the fans on and off, but also apply the settings I chose to the card whenever it's in use. (power state D0)

To the performance of the setup - absolutely amazing. I just set the fans to 50% of their speed (fancy fan profiles don't really make sense, they're almost not audible at up to 50%) and when the card is working maxed out for an extended gaming session it maybe reaches 75C at the very worst (with 70C on average, less when the game isn't putting a big load on the card) which is perfectly fine for this card. I haven't had a computer with a modern, actively cooled GPU which is that silent while gaming in ages, if ever. It's impressive what a difference quality fans make. I could probably knock an additional few C off by renewing thermal paste and building a vent to make sure all the air the fans push in goes over the heatsink but eh, this is good enough. GPU manufacturers should offer standardized harness shrouds for their cards so people can put their own fans in. It'd be more ecological too.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Zen 4 out next month

Looks faster than expected, but I'll probably still wait for the 3D versions.

If 2nd gen V-Cache gives +30% instead of +15% as MLiD claimed, it will be a bloodbath. Maybe that is from running at the same voltage and clocks as the standard models, and bandwidth improvements.

Edit: Now there is a fresh rumor of a 7900X3D in addition to the other two.

 

[Premium Dog Food]

Did not they talk at all about pluton on the upcoming AM5 cpus? I don't want any more spyware shit, I don't trust it any more than intel ME or PSP.

 

[TheRedChair]

If 2nd gen V-Cache gives +30% instead of +15% as MLiD claimed, it will be a bloodbath. Maybe that is from running at the same voltage and clocks as the standard models, and bandwidth improvements.

Edit: Now there is a fresh rumor of a 7900X3D in addition to the other two.

At what expense. From what I am hearing is. If the information that I've received is to be true.

1. Excessive wattage usage. 170 watts on a 7900X vs 105 watts on a 5900X =62% INCREASE IN WATTAGE USAGE.

2. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET MAX HERTZ RATINGS ON YOUR CPU. They have already posted in TINY print on the packaging. Some of the cores will hit those speeds but not all of them.

3. YOUR X670 IS GOING TO BE TWICE AS EXPENSIVE THAN THE X570. This is how AMD makes their money. You have to buy their mb chipset to make that shiny CPU run.

4. DDR5 IS EXPENSIVE now and will be at launch.

5. YOUR PSU IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE. This goes with the territory with every new setup.

When I built my X370 rig in 2017 the motherboard + AMD1800 was $390.00
When I build my X570 rig in 2019 the motherboard+ AMD 3600 was $325.00

The motherboard and CPU for 2022 is going to start at $550+.

Absolute BULLSHIT ON SAYING THAT THE B SERIES BOARDS ARE MAINSTREAM!!!
Oh just to fucking rub salt into the injury. The B SERIES MB WILL COST MORE THAN THE X570 SERIES when they launch back in 2019.

AND THEN these ASSHOLES segmented the B series EXTREME which will damn close to price of their X670 series of motherboard.

Note. A sight bit of a confirmation on my rant on the motherboard cost. Read the conclusion part of Guru 3d's comment about the cost of motherboards. Note how he is side stepping the actual cost of these motherboards until they officially been launched.

And yes they are saying that $400 is main stream.

AMD Ryzen 7000 processor announcements (preview)

AMD has revealed the first Ryzen 7000 processors based on ZEN4. In this article, we'll go through what's been announced and what to expect.... Page 1

www.guru3d.com

In ending.

IMHO you are looking at almost DOUBLE THE COST of last generation MB+CPU, to get maybe 30% more performance AT 61 TO 62% INCREASE IN WATTAGE USE.

This is horrible, but like always, people will buy this shit without looking at the bottom line.

 

[CreamyHerman’s]

And yes they are saying that $400 is main stream.

400 quid for 16 threads is borderline offensive, but you're going to see all the techtubers coonsoom all over it and tell their subs to BUY IT! NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW!

 

[DeadwastePrime]

this is why im interested in the low end and mid range stuff. because new shit will always be expensive until the next new thing comes out and you can get it on ebay for cheaper because now theyre the mid range or low end options.

 

[TheRedChair]

400 quid for 16 threads is borderline offensive, but you're going to see all the techtubers coonsoom all over it and tell their subs to BUY IT! NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW!

heh that's what they are saying about the motherboard. Then you add the CPU and Boom we can be looking at $1000 and higher MB and CPU combo's.

By the way I laughed pretty good from your posting thanks!

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Did not they talk at all about pluton on the upcoming AM5 cpus? I don't want any more spyware shit, I don't trust it any more than intel ME or PSP.

No confirmation on it yet.

At what expense. From what I am hearing is. If the information that I've received is to be true.

1. Excessive wattage usage. 170 watts on a 7900X vs 105 watts on a 5900X =62% INCREASE IN WATTAGE USAGE.

2. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET MAX HERTZ RATINGS ON YOUR CPU. They have already posted in TINY print on the packaging. Some of the cores will hit those speeds but not all of them.

3. YOUR X670 IS GOING TO BE TWICE AS EXPENSIVE THAN THE X570. This is how AMD makes their money. You have to buy their mb chipset to make that shiny CPU run.

4. DDR5 IS EXPENSIVE now and will be at launch.

5. YOUR PSU IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE. This goes with the territory with every new setup.

When I built my X370 rig in 2017 the motherboard + AMD1800 was $390.00
When I build my X570 rig in 2019 the motherboard+ AMD 3600 was $325.00

The motherboard and CPU for 2022 is going to start at $550+.

Absolute BULLSHIT ON SAYING THAT THE B SERIES BOARDS ARE MAINSTREAM!!!
Oh just to fucking rub salt into the injury. The B SERIES MB WILL COST MORE THAN THE X570 SERIES when they launch back in 2019.

AND THEN these ASSHOLES segmented the B series EXTREME which will damn close to price of their X670 series of motherboard.

Note. A sight bit of a confirmation on my rant on the motherboard cost. Read the conclusion part of Guru 3d's comment about the cost of motherboards. Note how he is side stepping the actual cost of these motherboards until they officially been launched.

And yes they are saying that $400 is main stream.

AMD Ryzen 7000 processor announcements (preview)

AMD has revealed the first Ryzen 7000 processors based on ZEN4. In this article, we'll go through what's been announced and what to expect.... Page 1

www.guru3d.com

In ending.

IMHO you are looking at almost DOUBLE THE COST of last generation MB+CPU, to get maybe 30% more performance AT 61 TO 62% INCREASE IN WATTAGE USE.

This is horrible, but like always, people will buy this shit without looking at the bottom line.

1. If you are fully utilizing an expensive 12+ core CPU, which gaming will not need, cooling 170 Watts is probably not an issue for you. You can also set lower power limits if you want to. AMD says that the 7950X is 74% faster than the 5950X at 65W.

2. What has changed from how they talk about turbo clocks on previous gens?

3. Not true. The dual chipset design can actually make it cheaper. Probably not cheaper than X570 in the short term but we'll see.

4. If DDR5 prices are too high, go with AM4 or Intel with DDR4. Or wait until both DDR5 prices and the prices of the CPUs themselves drop. It looks like they will be +25% over DDR4 for some time but that's better than +75% or whatever it is now.

5. You can get away with using a cheap 750 Watt PSU. If anything pushes your system over the edge, it's going to be the GPU.

Sperging about motherboard prices should be saved until, IDK, November or December? High prices at launch are expected now.

 

[Stasi]

I know the prices suck but let's have some perspective fellas, it wasn't that long ago that a mid range machine would set you back 2-3k. If you were spending sub 1k you were probably looking at a shitty celeron based eMachines computer that struggled opening a web browser.

We've got it pretty good when it comes to tech, especially in the second hand market. You don't have to be buying these enthusiast CPUs the day they release, let the consoomers do it and pick it up a year later off eBay or something.

 

[TheRedChair]

I know the prices suck but let's have some perspective fellas, it wasn't that long ago that a mid range machine would set you back 2-3k. If you were spending sub 1k you were probably looking at a shitty celeron based eMachines computer that struggled opening a web browser.

We've got it pretty good when it comes to tech, especially in the second hand market. You don't have to be buying these enthusiast CPUs the day they release, let the consoomers do it and pick it up a year later off eBay or something.

Well I've been building and repairing rigs going on to close to 34 years now. 30+ years ago hell yes it was expensive. But even as late as 2019 I have have built good mid range rigs for myself/clients for around $900.

Now? Shit. If I have to go new on what I want this is going to cost me around 1800 bucks.

I just hope the info given to me is wrong so I can happily build a new rig this time around.

On the Flip side the AMD 6800 video card is now under MSRP @ $550 dollars.

OR you can find some good used 5700/5700XT for a good price.

I own both 5700 reference models and they both under volt/ overclock nicely. Absolutely no issues in almost 3 years of constant use.

One of the reasons why I want with AMD video cards for the past 6 years is their reputation of maturing their drivers well during the long run.

Short term though Ngreedia owns the Crown in driver support, but owning your video card long term I went for AMD.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

I know the prices suck but let's have some perspective fellas, it wasn't that long ago that a mid range machine would set you back 2-3k. If you were spending sub 1k you were probably looking at a shitty celeron based eMachines computer that struggled opening a web browser.

We've got it pretty good when it comes to tech, especially in the second hand market. You don't have to be buying these enthusiast CPUs the day they release, let the consoomers do it and pick it up a year later off eBay or something.

Americans are usually getting prices that are crazy lower than many other countries. USians should just buy tech when they feel like it.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

I know the prices suck but let's have some perspective fellas, it wasn't that long ago that a mid range machine would set you back 2-3k. If you were spending sub 1k you were probably looking at a shitty celeron based eMachines computer that struggled opening a web browser.

We've got it pretty good when it comes to tech, especially in the second hand market. You don't have to be buying these enthusiast CPUs the day they release, let the consoomers do it and pick it up a year later off eBay or something.

idk, 3d accelerators had a pretty firm price point for quite a few generations, the absolute top end card cost less than a 3060 at MSRP at launch. With overclocking a very reasonably priced (sub ryzen [x]600 prices) latest gen CPU could get you very far using just stock cooling. Power supplies were just power supplies, no xxx watt requirement for parts, so they were cheap. Many cases were dirt cheap folded trash metal that made a wobbling "sproing" sound when opened and they could double as potato peelers. That trash was priced accordingly.
The equivalent of buying 16GB of good ram was around the same price then(not counting inflation).

Buying a good 1600x1200 monitor would be pricey 20+ years ago because they were targeted at professionals who could pay big bucks.

Before that things were very expensive, but the prices started breaking down quickly in the late 90s. Reusing a couple of parts(HDD, monitor, PSU, case, CD drive) the cost of building a new P2-300 system in 1998(before may 1998, I remember that much) was way less than what my new Pentium 166MMX system cost maybe 18 months before that in 1996 and it kept getting cheaper as performance skyrocketed.

 

[AmpleApricots]

My first computer was about $3000-$5000 and had about 1 MB of RAM. It was also hopelessly obsolete on every single front four years later.

Computers nowadays are dirt-cheap. If I just want a capable machine for most tasks that also plays everything but the latest graphics orgy I could do it for 500-700 bucks with used parts and would have a nice computer. Even morseo, it'll probably last me the next ten years if I'm okay with playing 2D indie games and doing the occasional maintenance and am generally good at administering a system.

I personally think the next pioneer frontier strictly for enthusiasts and nerds (as was that first computer of mine) where insane money for things that'll go obsolete yesterday will be spent will be dedicated AI hardware. (if that entire field won't be regulated to death first) It's the vibe I'm getting from that certain community which I don't get from stuff like gaming- and VR-enthusiasts because they're more of the "what's an on switch"mass- consoomer type, which we weren't back then (easy to forget but computers were an absolute niche thing nobody cared about) - but I still don't think we'll ever go quite back to computer pioneer prices, alone because people can't afford it.

 

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

Realisticly, how smart would it be to invest in a top of the line AM4 CPU in order to futureproof my PC for a good 5 years?

So far I have a 3600 which is doing pretty well but would it be a smarter choice to just hold onto this and go all out with the next gen, considering I'd have to get a new motherboard + cpu and probably new ram too if they fuck with the specs AGAIN by that time.

 

[AmpleApricots]

So far I have a 3600 which is doing pretty well but would it be a smarter choice to just hold onto this and go all out with the next gen, considering I'd have to get a new motherboard + cpu and probably new ram too if they fuck with the specs AGAIN by that time.

I'd wait until it isn't doing well for you anymore and then check the used prices for AM4 CPUs, how they do with the stuff you expect them to work with at that point and then compare them vis-a-vis to what'll be available on the market by then. If what you have serves you well, why update now? If it doesn't think about what you need. Upgrading for the sake of upgrading never seemed to be very viable for me.

 

[thejackal]

Who gives half a fuck about wattage in a CPU when it's still well under a 200w TDP? I'm running a fucking Ryzen 7 2700x overclocked to 4.5ghz with a 3060 on a 430w PSU with a 15% OC on the GPU. My system is rock solid.

The days of worrying about power draw are long gone. Every new ram generation comes with an expensive new generation of chipsets. That's par for the course. AMD will charge a premium because that's literally what always happens when you have a limited supply of fresh of the assembly parts.

It's a great time to be buying and building and selling PCs again. It was a long 2 years in the wilderness.

@Tom Nook's Gloryhole you're never gonna futureproof anything but buying an AM4 right now is just silly. If you really want to try and buy AM4 just wait until Black Friday you're gonna see crazy deals around Christmas and holiday season.

 

[Zero0]

Realisticly, how smart would it be to invest in a top of the line AM4 CPU in order to futureproof my PC for a good 5 years?

So far I have a 3600 which is doing pretty well but would it be a smarter choice to just hold onto this and go all out with the next gen, considering I'd have to get a new motherboard + cpu and probably new ram too if they fuck with the specs AGAIN by that time.

If you're going to buy AM4 you might as well wait until these new cpus come out so the prices on the old ones drop.

But a 3600 is plenty, if it runs everything you need it to, why upgrade?

 

[Car Won't Crank]

If you're going to buy AM4 you might as well wait until these new cpus come out so the prices on the old ones drop.

But a 3600 is plenty, if it runs everything you need it to, why upgrade?

The 3600 is the i5 2500k of this decade.

 

[Post Reply]

Realisticly, how smart would it be to invest in a top of the line AM4 CPU in order to futureproof my PC for a good 5 years?

So far I have a 3600 which is doing pretty well but would it be a smarter choice to just hold onto this and go all out with the next gen, considering I'd have to get a new motherboard + cpu and probably new ram too if they fuck with the specs AGAIN by that time.

As others have mentioned, the 3600 should serve you well for a few years more. If you really feel the itch to upgrade though, I've seen the 5700x on sale for $200 lately. That is a screaming hot deal in my opinion.

 

[The Ugly One]

If 2nd gen V-Cache gives +30% instead of +15% as MLiD claimed, it will be a bloodbath. Maybe that is from running at the same voltage and clocks as the standard models, and bandwidth improvements.

Edit: Now there is a fresh rumor of a 7900X3D in addition to the other two.

V-Cache doesn't uniformly speed things up. It improves only memory-bound tasks. I've seen it boost memory-bound tasks by 1.5x or more. Compute-bound tasks will see a 0% speedup. I have no intuition about whether or not consumer applications really will benefit much.

Can we ask for tips on builds here? I didn't see anything against it in the op.

I'm currently making the part list for my first pc that I intend to build around September and all my info comes to pigetsystems.com and random tech youtubers.
As you can imagine I'm more confused everyday.
I know intel since i have a old i7 in my laptop and 1080p video editing on it was a breeze, so at first I thought "I'll make a really nice 11th gen pc to save some money" but then I discovered that the gen jump from 11 to 12 is really big in terms of performance.
At that point I thought to build around a i7-12700 on a B660 mobo to take advantage of the new tech without going overboard for a wifi board.
And now youtube is recommending me Intel vs AMD videos.
So, I was sure about going intel for the igpu on the processor (I'm not a gamer and I'm not going to use after effect or anything 3d anytime soon,i just work on video and photos), but now YouTube is planting amd ideas in the back of my brain.

So I'm here now to ask some input from people that are not trying to sell me something with their sponsorships.
What are the real advantages of going amd for video editing? Cheaper and better motherboards are worth over losing the better video encoding/decoding?

I would be really careful with Intel. I just had to return my NUC11 Extreme because overheating killed the PCIe. I read that they've been having yield issues with their 10nm process. Alder Lake is having serious manufacturing difficulties. Any time you have to throw out a lot of product, it means you are selling a lot more product that is very close to your failure tolerance, which is where 99% of failures happen. It's bell curve stuff, I can explain if you need the autism, or you could just not buy any Intel products.