GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

Fcret said:
Apparently Arrow Lake might have its own microcode problems that are causing instability:
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Was about to post this but damn I'm late. Two things I got hooked while watching was that

- In terms of efficiency, apparently Arrow Lake is better than Zen 5, seems like AMD might be going right back to Intel's old ways if this keeps up.
- Most of the instability leaks are coming from Tom's Hardware, and they seem to be right on the money most of the time.

I think Mossad needs a larger grave of sand for dead CPUs.
 
WULULULULU said:
- In terms of efficiency, apparently Arrow Lake is better than Zen 5, seems like AMD might be going right back to Intel's old ways if this keeps up.
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Haven't watched yet but AMD will not outdo Intel's worst excesses on power:

Unlocked Intel Core Ultra 9 285K approaches 370W power draw during Cinebench test

AMD raised the max TDP / PPT for AM5 to 170W / 230W, but that was a one time deal as far as AM5 is concerned, and it will take a new AM6 socket to make it worse. Then you have the new 105W mode for the 9700X, and the 9800X3D probably repeating a 120W TDP with higher power consumption to allow some kind of user overclocking and hit higher base/turbo clocks, but those are within reasonable limits.
 
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raychart.jpeg


Arrow Lake reviews will come out in about an hour from this edit.


"Arrow Lake is not ready for launch..."



Forbes: Intel Core Ultra 9 285K Vs Ryzen 7 7800X3D: Which Should You Buy? (archive)
Phoronix: Intel Core Ultra 9 285K "Arrow Lake" Delivers Strong Linux Performance
TechPowerUp: Intel Core Ultra 9 285K Review
Tom's Hardware: Intel Core Ultra 9 285K Review: Intel Throws a Lateral with Arrow Lake
Wccftech: Intel Core Ultra 9 285K & Core Ultra 5 245K “Arrow Lake” CPUs Review: Prioritizing Efficiency Over Performnance
 
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TheRaptorJesus said:
Looks like the new intel CPus are a pile of shit.
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Level1Techs has a video on the new Intel CPUs too
Seems it's buggy with some weird BSODing going on related to driver and anticheat issues. The performance vs the 7800X3D leaves a lot to be desired too and the power efficiency is better but still meh. Wendell also finds that Intel APO (game optimization) doesn't make much of a difference. Conclusion is the platform isn't quite ready yet but could be saved if it were priced reasonably, but it isn't.
 
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TheRaptorJesus said:
Looks like the new intel CPus are a pile of shit.
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Gross oversimplification and caricature of this sad but laughable state of Intel on my part:


"Intel Core" and "AMD Zen" were good because they came in when it mattered, Netburst and AMD FX were bad because they came in with a meh, found a place and lingered too long,


Intel doesnt really speak of their uArch these days in plain terms because this ain the 2000s anymore, but if swapping to TSMC didnt somewhat improve things post 14th gen; it's time to find the next gens Keller clean sheet master to pen a new Core. Was Intel fab and Intel 7 node the whipping boy after all?! The degradation issues just post 12th gen high Intel dialing volts like a noob unwilling to let AMD have the absolute crown again?! Hardware was already prone to such clown world shenanigans before 2019 so who knows.
 
It's a performance regression in gaming, there are weird issues with it, especially on Windows 11 24H2, and a mixed bag in application performance, but it generally improves performance and efficiency.

9aeb7487cb84b5633b1b877d0103295359abe1e4bcc64adcd87e55e3916aa265.png

One spot of good news: the iGPU.

igp-relative-performance-1280-720.pngigp-relative-performance-1920-1080.png

That's double the performance of the Raptor Lake and Ryzen 7000/9000 iGPUs, and actually faster than the Ryzen 7 5700G APU. Keep in mind this only applies to the initial models that have the full 4 Xe cores, others in the full lineup will only have 2-3 Xe cores.

One of the specific examples: It can play Elden Ring at 1080p (lowest) at around 31 FPS average. Older games will do much better.
 
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This CPU has 36MB of L3, so in a latency-bound workload where L3 cache gives a substantial benefit, you shouldn't expect it to impress vs those fancy X3D models from AMD (incidentally, this has been an issue in server CPUs as well...AMD's just absolutely run away with any memory-bound application). If your program is choked for data, more cores don't help. It did pretty well in some embarrassingly parallel, compute-bound benchmarks.

The problem is it's doing really badly it "don't fucking bluescreen on me, ever" benchmarks. That's what's deeply concerning. It should never have been released in this state, and following hot on the heels of 14th gen CPUs melting because they apparently never just ran the things at 100% for a few weeks to test them, that speaks to some serious structural problems in their development-to-release pipeline.

Flaming Dumpster said:
Wendell also finds that Intel APO (game optimization) doesn't make much of a difference.
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APO is a parlor trick that only does anything if a program is context-switching more often than it's working, which doesn't happen that often to begin with.
 
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The Mass Shooter Ron Soye said:
It's a performance regression in gaming, there are weird issues with it, especially on Windows 11 24H2, and a mixed bag in application performance, but it generally improves performance and efficiency.

One spot of good news: the iGPU.
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that's actually very uplifting, Intel ARC is simply a needed brand these days. The better it does in gaming cafe shitboxes the better.
 
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Lookie-lou said:
that's actually very uplifting, Intel ARC is simply a needed brand these days. The better it does in gaming cafe shitboxes the better.
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Even if the Intel Arc discrete GPUs are doomed, they are better positioned than ever to make a desktop "APU" if they want. They can just swap in a bigger iGPU tile. Arrow Lake is using the exact same one from Meteor Lake-U as far as I know.
 
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The Mass Shooter Ron Soye said:
Even if the Intel Arc discrete GPUs are doomed, they are better positioned than ever to make a desktop "APU" if they want. They can just swap in a bigger iGPU tile. Arrow Lake is using the exact same one from Meteor Lake-U as far as I know.
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i agree obviously, but as an aside fully hope they keep at the dGPUs even if it sucks for Radeon. Nvidia keeps chasing upmarket so aggressively it feels like they will leave a gap in their wake eventually.
 
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Lookie-lou said:
i agree obviously, but as an aside fully hope they keep at the dGPUs even if it sucks for Radeon. Nvidia keeps chasing upmarket so aggressively it feels like they will leave a gap in their wake eventually.
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I liked how the Arc gpus don't have crippled workstation calculations. their fp64 and capacity to do math is at the same levels of higher tier Nvidia and AMD cpus
 
It's also worth noting how this stacks up vs an i9-14900k:

i9-14900kCore Ultra 9 285k
P-Cores8 @ 3.2/5.6 GHz8 @ 3.7/5.5 GHz
E-Cores16 @ 2.4/4.4 Ghz16 @ 3.2/4.6 GHz
L3 Cache36 MB36 MB
L2 Cache32 MB40 MB
RAM2x DDR5-56002x DDR5-6400
Max RAM192 GB192 GB
GPUSome garbageAbout 2x better
NPUNone13 TOPs
PCIe 2024

So the reason it isn't doing much more in CPU compute benchmarks is it's only barely improved from the i9-14900k. Instead, they have put most of the effort into AI and the GPU. So it is really a question of whether this is the right direction for desktop CPUs to go.

Historically, the trend has always been for off-chip accelerators to move onto the chip itself. Gaming GPUs in 2024 are large and hot, to the point it can be physically uncomfortable to have a computer on your desk if the GPU runs at 100%. NVIDIA is pushing greater power density and consumption, but the dGPU market is continuing its decade-long stagnation:

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Longer term view:
1729789225390.png

As for the NPU, all of these consumer-grade "AI PC" applications I've seen are fake and/or gay. I would rather have that silicon spent on the GPU.

However, this is an abstraction because this particular CPU seems broken right out of the gate.
 
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The fact that Intel is selling a broken product twice is absolutely fucking scummy. Between Nvidia's price-gouging of the 50 series and Intel's Mossad shenanigans, tech is at a point of mega-stagnation. Makes for good popcorn though.
 
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WULULULULU said:
The fact that Intel is selling a broken product twice is absolutely fucking scummy. Between Nvidia's price-gouging of the 50 series and Intel's Mossad shenanigans, tech is at a point of mega-stagnation. Makes for good popcorn though.
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Is it broken or did they just push 13/14th too far? Derbaur seems to think the power and lower temps are good in exchange for being a little slower. But to me, they need to sell this a lot cheaper if they want to compete with the lowering prices of 13th and 14th.
 
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