GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[The Ghost of Kviv]

The M4's based on a second generation 3 nm process, and has 3/4 performance cores and 6 efficiency cores, plus a 9/10 core GPU, which also has the raytracing and mesh shading from the M3.

It's supposedly a bigger evolution when compared to 2 and 3. Wider P-cores, deeper E-cores, and while I didn't get time to confirm, rumor is it's ISA is derived from armv9, instead of armv8.

 

[LegoTugboat]

An interesting thing I overlooked is that the M4 has 120 GB/second memory bandwidth, which would mean roughly two LPDDR5X 7500 MHz or thereabouts.

Anandtech's speculating 7700 MHz.

 

[WelperHelper99]

AMD needs to have a better product database. Intel Ark is great and AMD (and other vendors) could learn or thing or two from it.

Agreed. The number system is bullshit unless you already know what it is. Intel is simple for its core lineup- i3/i5/i7/i9. Yes they have some letters behind them but you basically know what you're getting. Telling a normie you have a 5800x3d is fucking obtuse.

 

[The Ugly One]

Be careful with the latest gen Epyc processors. They are now able to be vendor locked.

Ryzen, too. Don't buy a used CPU.

https://www.servethehome.com/lenovo-vendor-locking-ryzen-based-systems-with-amd-psb/

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Agreed. The number system is bullshit unless you already know what it is. Intel is simple for its core lineup- i3/i5/i7/i9. Yes they have some letters behind them but you basically know what you're getting. Telling a normie you have a 5800x3d is fucking obtuse.

What? Intel pulls the same shit with K/KS/KF.

The Ryzen 3/5/7 is the same as Intel numbers.

Anybody having more or less trouble understanding either is just showing bias tbh.

 

[WelperHelper99]

What? Intel pulls the same shit with K/KS/KF.

The Ryzen 3/5/7 is the same as Intel numbers.

Anybody having more or less trouble understanding either is just showing bias tbh.

Dude I've built both. A i7 is a i7, people instantly understand that. A ryzen 7 includes a 5700 and a 5800. That's literally a different core. While a i7 and a i7k is just the difference of having the apu or not, but it's still a i7.

 

[Susanna]

Dude I've built both. A i7 is a i7, people instantly understand that. A ryzen 7 includes a 5700 and a 5800. That's literally a different core. While a i7 and a i7k is just the difference of having the apu or not, but it's still a i7.

i5 includes the 12400, 12500 and the 12600, as well as no letter, K, and F versions of each.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Dude I've built both. A i7 is a i7, people instantly understand that. A ryzen 7 includes a 5700 and a 5800. That's literally a different core. While a i7 and a i7k is just the difference of having the apu or not, but it's still a i7.

It really depends on the generation. Intel has multiple times rolled different chips under the same i-number.

If anything, Intel has been far more of a number clusterfuck... depending on gen.

If the names confuse you, it's a you thing.

 

[WelperHelper99]

It really depends on the generation. Intel has multiple times rolled different chips under the same i-number.

If anything, Intel has been far more of a number clusterfuck... depending on gen.

If the names confuse you, it's a you thing.

I'm talking normal people man. They buy a laptop, it says i5. They get that because everything at school was intel. This number code bullshit is complicated for the average Joe that uses his laptop or HP drone pc for work and light web browsing.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

I'm talking normal people man. They buy a laptop, it says i5. They get that because everything at school was intel. This number code bullshit is complicated for the average Joe that uses his laptop or HP drone pc for work and light web browsing.

So? An i5 isn't always just an i5. If the consoomer brain shuts off after seeing just "i5", they deserve what they get.

 

[Susanna]

I'm talking normal people man. They buy a laptop, it says i5. They get that because everything at school was intel. This number code bullshit is complicated for the average Joe that uses his laptop or HP drone pc for work and light web browsing.

Yes, this is a huge issue. Finding out which processor is actually in a given computer is really annoying, for both brands. You could get a 14900K, or you might get a 6900K, they’re both labelled “Intel Core i9 processor”. Useless.

 

[WelperHelper99]

So? An i5 isn't always just an i5. If the consoomer brain shuts off after seeing just "i5", they deserve what they get.

I'm saying it's reality and expecting everyone to get the autism is silly.

Yes, this is a huge issue. Finding out which processor is actually in a given computer is really annoying, for both brands. You could get a 14900K, or you might get a 6900K, they’re both labelled “Intel Core i9 processor”. Useless.

You could if you're buying used. If you're just buying something off Amazon, a laptop, it's going to be relatively up to date and able to do whatever the core is listed as at the time it's bought.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

I'm saying it's reality and expecting everyone to get the autism is silly.

Reading a model number is autism?

Holy hell. The human race is in dire straits.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Reading a model number is autism?

Holy hell. The human race is in dire straits.

Computers are autism. Assume the vast majority of the population are idiots. Selling a laptop with a i7 is very hard to fuck up.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Computers are autism. Assume the vast majority of the population are idiots. Selling a laptop with a i7 is very hard to fuck up.

Lol. Don't try to pass this off as a "hurr PC stuff" thing. We're talking basic reading.

Somehow people can figure out they're buying a 2020 f150 vs a 2021.

Or maybe they can't and people fuck that up all the time, too.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Lol. Don't try to pass this off as a "hurr PC stuff" thing. We're talking basic reading.

Somehow people can figure out they're buying a 2020 f150 vs a 2021.

Or maybe they can't and people fuck that up all the time, too.

I'll explain marketing. The F-150 is ancient. Its been in movies, TV, police and military use it, your dad probably has one. Same with the I series. Every school in America uses intel computers. The majority of laptop sales are intel. A normie knows what a i5 is, and that the bigger the number, the better.

AMD had the great idea if putting the generation code into the number. It's not a A800, it's a 5800, then a 7800, every generation. You have added a layer of complexity to a product less people have familiarity with.

Now once you know it's easy. But if you don't, it's a mess. It's a 4 digit number that makes less sense than the 2 digit code, a two digit code that always stays the same no matter the generation. A smoothbrain can figure it out, which is how you get sales and dominate the laptop market.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

AMD had the great idea if putting the generation code into the number. It's not a A800, it's a 5800, then a 7800, every generation.

What. Intel. Also. Does. This.

9700
10700
11700
12700
13700
14700

I 100% believe if amd did this first, I'd be hearing the same argument in reverse. It's just bias.

 

[WelperHelper99]

What. Intel. Also. Does. This.

They don't market it though! AMD does. There is no sticker on the laptop that says 12700k. There is on a AMD laptop. In fact there's two. Ryzen 7, then Ryzen 5800. You just added complexity that the normie you rely on to make money has to sift through. That is a marketing nightmare.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

They don't market it though! AMD does. There is no sticker on the laptop that says 12700k. There is on a AMD laptop. In fact there's two. Ryzen 7, then Ryzen 5800. You just added complexity that the normie you rely on to make money has to sift through. That is a marketing nightmare.

So Intel being less transparent in what it's actually selling is a good thing?

 

[WelperHelper99]

So Intel being less transparent in what it's actually selling is a good thing?

For a general consumer market, yes. For a guy building a PC, it doesn't matter because he actually cares. The normie only cares about the big number. This is marketing psychology. It's the difference between a left and right wing meme. One you get bored at and don't read, one is instantly funny. Never underestimate the average consumers low attention span.