GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[4090 Chad]

Looks like Nvidia has a new driver to fix the issues with its 572.xx driver line. I don't think I've ever seen a list of bugfixes this long for an nvidia driver before.

Based on forum and Reddit comments seems like the new driver is still fucked. I always wonder what percentage of people are actually having issues though considering only those with issues are going to be vocal about them.

 

[WULULULULU]

A used 4060 Ti is going for $650 on Newegg right now. What a hot deal.

60-tier GPU for $650? Fucking kill me.

 

[Fcret]

Based on forum and Reddit comments seems like the new driver is still fucked. I always wonder what percentage of people are actually having issues though considering only those with issues are going to be vocal about them.

The only issue I was routinely encountering was the inability of the GPU to wake the monitor after extended sleep. I dunno if this has fixed it as I haven't put my computer into an extended sleep yet after the install. Guess we'll see tomorrow if I fall asleep with my PC still on.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

Based on forum and Reddit comments seems like the new driver is still fucked. I always wonder what percentage of people are actually having issues though considering only those with issues are going to be vocal about them.

I've had 2-3 bluescreens with the "PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA" error message since upgrading my drivers. Never had that problem before.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

60-tier GPU for $650? Fucking kill me.

It's $600-tier, heheh.

I found it amusing that it's around a 7700 XT in performance.

 

[Slav Power]

Ah, there's my current CPU bottleneck...

Guess I'll have to upgrade to high end AM5 in a few years to really tie the package together.

 

[Archeops]

Ugh, I told a friend of mine that I built my own PC over the holidays (which is still chugging along quite nicely) and he was honestly surprised by the fact that I could do that when the most tech stuff I’ve done in the past is repair the bottom screen of a “broken” Nintendo DSi.

Why is that an issue? Because he’s now asking me if I could build a PC for his soon-to-be-completed man cave.

I basically shared links to PCPartPicker and the desk I purchased to make my little gaming zone but I told him that getting into PC gaming now is a lesson in pain due to the GPU shortage and possible tariff charges.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

AMD “Ryzen Z2 A” said to be based on Steam Deck’s “Van Gogh” APU - Really?

TSMC Says It Has No Intention Of Forming A JV With Intel, Asserts That Its Production Yields In The Arizona Fab Are Comparable To Those In Taiwan Facilities

I basically shared links to PCPartPicker and the desk I purchased to make my little gaming zone but I told him that getting into PC gaming now is a lesson in pain due to the GPU shortage and possible tariff charges.

If Micro Center is on the table, bundles can help with the CPU/motherboard/RAM.

If your buddy can cheap out on the GPU now and look for something better later, then the pain could be lessened. For example, there are suspicious looking RX 580 8GBs for around $90 on Newegg. RTX 3050 6GB is around $160-190. That's basically the same performance until you take DLSS into account, and using only 75W it could be thrown into any office PC (as long as it fits).

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=RX+580

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=RTX+3050

>playing games in 2020+5

 

[TrinityReformed]

Ugh, I told a friend of mine that I built my own PC over the holidays (which is still chugging along quite nicely) and he was honestly surprised by the fact that I could do that when the most tech stuff I’ve done in the past is repair the bottom screen of a “broken” Nintendo DSi.

Why is that an issue? Because he’s now asking me if I could build a PC for his soon-to-be-completed man cave.

I basically shared links to PCPartPicker and the desk I purchased to make my little gaming zone but I told him that getting into PC gaming now is a lesson in pain due to the GPU shortage and possible tariff charges.

I always find building pc's fun, so I usually do it for free when asked. As for the shortage, maybe with the tariffs, nvdia will redirect the gpu's being sold in China to shelves here instead? I don't see why they wouldn't.

 

[Archeops]

AMD “Ryzen Z2 A” said to be based on Steam Deck’s “Van Gogh” APU - Really?

TSMC Says It Has No Intention Of Forming A JV With Intel, Asserts That Its Production Yields In The Arizona Fab Are Comparable To Those In Taiwan Facilities
View attachment 7234294


If Micro Center is on the table, bundles can help with the CPU/motherboard/RAM.

If your buddy can cheap out on the GPU now and look for something better later, then the pain could be lessened. For example, there are suspicious looking RX 580 8GBs for around $90 on Newegg. RTX 3050 6GB is around $160-190. That's basically the same performance until you take DLSS into account, and using only 75W it could be thrown into any office PC (as long as it fits).

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=RX+580

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=RTX+3050

>playing games in 2020+5

I actually mentioned that I got my mobo/CPU/RAM bundle from Micro Center to him when taking about PC building (with him expressing shock towards the fact that I’d make a 4-5 hour round trip to it), I’ll more than likely bring it up when I meet up with him in couple of weeks for an unrelated job I’m doing for him.

As far as the GPU’s concerned I’m not exactly worried about it since he’d mostly use this PC for emulating games, I think the farthest he’d go is emulating 6th generation console games with a small smattering of 7th generation games.

I always find building pc's fun, so I usually do it for free when asked. As for the shortage, maybe with the tariffs, nvdia will redirect the gpu's being sold in China to shelves here instead? I don't see why they wouldn't.

Barring a small faux pas that happened to me when I was applying thermal paste (which I thankfully fixed) I also enjoyed building mine, the downside for building a PC for someone else is mostly due to timing it so that is doesn’t interfere with other things I need to spend time on.

I’m not so worried about the shortage since I’d probably just find him the best GPU for emulating, he’s the kind of guy to always go “big dick” mode when doing something.

 

[The Ugly One]

TSMC Says It Has No Intention Of Forming A JV With Intel, Asserts That Its Production Yields In The Arizona Fab Are Comparable To Those In Taiwan Facilities

According to rumors I've heard, this joint venture is something their board wants because they're panicking over bad quarterly results, but the 18A process is actually coming along as more or less as expected, and the engineers don't see any sort of technology gap TSMC could fix. Their main issue was starting late. They've been unable to find foundry customers because running manufacturing as a service is a lot different than running it as part of a vertically integrated stack, and Intel is struggling to deal with customer expectations (this is a really common problem with any company that tries to turn an internal process into a service). The board wants a quick fix to all this and is flailing.

 

[Susanna]

According to rumors I've heard, this joint venture is something their board wants because they're panicking over bad quarterly results, but the 18A process is actually coming along as more or less as expected, and the engineers don't see any sort of technology gap TSMC could fix. Their main issue was starting late. They've been unable to find foundry customers because running manufacturing as a service is a lot different than running it as part of a verticlaly integrated stack, and Intel is struggling to deal with customer expectations (this is a really common problem with any company that tries to turn an internal process into a service). The board wants a quick fix to all this and is flailing.

This is essentially the same issue that led Apple to do their own chips. Apple kept begging them for power efficient laptop chips, which Intel kept ignoring (which is a big part of why Windows laptops are so catastrophically bad even to this day).

”Intel doesn’t know how to be a service, only a vendor”.

If Apple couldn’t get Intel to just fab the chips they wanted, there’s little hope any less giant company will see much success.

 

[Fcret]

This is essentially the same issue that led Apple to do their own chips. Apple kept begging them for power efficient laptop chips, which Intel kept ignoring (which is a big part of why Windows laptops are so catastrophically bad even to this day).

”Intel doesn’t know how to be a service, only a vendor”.

If Apple couldn’t get Intel to just fab the chips they wanted, there’s little hope any less giant company will see much success.

Keep in mind when Apple was asking for this, they weren't coming to Intel with a finished chip design and asking Intel to just make it. They were saying to Intel, "You know those lines of mobile chips you already make for all the other vendors? Well we want those but tweaked to be more power efficient." Also Intel wasn't in the business of providing fabrication as a service back then.

The situation is completely different now.

Anyway on the Nvidia driver front - still getting black screens on resume from long sleep. I switched my power profile to balanced recently so I'm gonna switch back to high performance and see if that does anything.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

ASRock Intel Arc B570 Challenger 10GB GDDR6 OC Computer Graphics Card $230

Only $10 over MSRP, wow!

According to rumors I've heard, this joint venture is something their board wants because they're panicking over bad quarterly results, but the 18A process is actually coming along as more or less as expected, and the engineers don't see any sort of technology gap TSMC could fix.

A chink analyst threw some shade at 18A back in Feb:
Intel’s 18A Process Reportedly Shows “Disappointing” Yield Rates As They Are Now At 20%-30%, Making Mass-Production Impossible

But since then the news has been rosy:
Intel announces 18A process node has entered risk production — crucial milestone comes as company ramps to Panther Lake chips

If 18A and future nodes can deliver, then maybe it's a good idea to ignore attempts to shake up the company any further, and stay the course.
Intel: New CEO Or Not, It's 18A Or Bust (archive)

They need high margin Intel chips made with 18A instead of leaning on TSMC, and at least some external customers. Worst case scenario other than 18A failing might be the fabs running under capacity or producing tons of the low margin chips like the rumored Wildcat Lake.

 

[Betonhaus]

This is essentially the same issue that led Apple to do their own chips. Apple kept begging them for power efficient laptop chips, which Intel kept ignoring (which is a big part of why Windows laptops are so catastrophically bad even to this day).

”Intel doesn’t know how to be a service, only a vendor”.

If Apple couldn’t get Intel to just fab the chips they wanted, there’s little hope any less giant company will see much success.

Another major reason was that at that point Intel cut down their in house QA testing and pushed it onto their customers. Apple was sending massive lists of needed fixes and they were getting sick of defective chips. I believe there was an entire year of MacBooks and Apple computers that were stuck with shit processors. Since Apple was designing CPU's for their phones they were familiar with development and realized it was unnecessary to be given the runaround by Intel.

It would be nice if Apple brought back the Xserve servers with a massive X series chip they also provide in a Max Pro box. Even if it just had a built in Docker container management UI it would do well.

 

[The Ugly One]

This is essentially the same issue that led Apple to do their own chips. Apple kept begging them for power efficient laptop chips, which Intel kept ignoring (which is a big part of why Windows laptops are so catastrophically bad even to this day).

”Intel doesn’t know how to be a service, only a vendor”.

If Apple couldn’t get Intel to just fab the chips they wanted, there’s little hope any less giant company will see much success.

The Apple issue was a little different, since Apple was buying off-the-shelf designs, and Intel's foundry fell behind in the 2010s. There was nothing they could do with chip design.

With manufacturing-as-a-service, it's not as simple as fabricating someone else's designs. You need to design for the fab. This means the fab needs to provide you tools and customer support. Also, like any other product, the fab now needs to be sensitive to customer needs and update their products in response. AMD has had a lot of input into what TSMC does. NVIDIA and IBM both have had a lot of influence over Samsung (though NVIDIA recently switched to TSMC). And, of course, this relationship has to happen with certain types of information not being shared.

When you're vertically integrated, you can be more dictatorial. You can have shittier tools. But you also are a completely open book when it comes to IP & information. You don't need customer service; your engineers just talk directly to each other. You also have more co-dependent technologies, while running manufacturing as a service requires maintaining a bright line between Your IP and My IP. All that and more is why opening up an internal process and trying to sell it as a product frequently fails.

Another major reason was that at that point Intel cut down their in house QA testing and pushed it onto their customers. Apple was sending massive lists of needed fixes and they were getting sick of defective chips. I believe there was an entire year of MacBooks and Apple computers that were stuck with shit processors.

Skylake CPUs were notorious for defects. That was the beginning of the end for the Apple-Intel relationship.

 

[WULULULULU]

Another major reason was that at that point Intel cut down their in house QA testing and pushed it onto their customers.

Lmao, silicon devs using 2020-era vidya game dev tactics.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

@The Ugly One
Intel investigates CPU overhead issues with Arc GPUs on older processors

Testing has revealed that the B580 GPU suffers a sharp performance loss when paired with processors such as the Ryzen 5 2600/5600 or Intel i5-9600K. In these configurations, the GPU’s performance takes a hit compared to setups with higher-end processors, such as the Ryzen 7 9800X3D.

It’s worth pointing out that these performance issues are unrelated to the ResizableBAR problem with Intel Arc GPUs. Intel Arc graphics are known to be particularly platform-limited when ReBAR is unavailable. Unlike NVIDIA and AMD, Intel’s Arc GPUs have always been more dependent on the platform they’re paired with.

It's not a Ryzen issue, and Intel is finally acknowledging it.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 9985WX spotted, 12 and 16-core variants also surface

 

[The Ugly One]

@The Ugly One
Intel investigates CPU overhead issues with Arc GPUs on older processors


It's not a Ryzen issue, and Intel is finally acknowledging it.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 9985WX spotted, 12 and 16-core variants also surface

Hadn't heard complaints on 9th gen Intel (201. But I found this:

https://youtu.be/npIpWFSfmv4?feature=shared&t=537

Here it is in what appear to be some CPU-limited games:

Curious. Issues like this will make it unsurprising if Lip Bu kills the whole program.

 

[ZMOT]

As far as the GPU’s concerned I’m not exactly worried about it since he’d mostly use this PC for emulating games, I think the farthest he’d go is emulating 6th generation console games with a small smattering of 7th generation games.

APU might be an option, but no idea how they fare in terms of emulating recent gens.