Half Life thread - Discussions about Valve's FPS magnum opus(es) and any related content (spin offs, expansions and etc)

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HL 3...is it still happening?

  • No and anyone that still thinks that it will is delusional

    Votes: 289 45.6%
  • Yes, they just need a few more years to perfect it so it can another game changer in the industry

    Votes: 187 29.5%
  • Shouldnt it be called "Two Lives and a half" instead?

    Votes: 101 15.9%
  • Half life is overrated, you neckbeard homos

    Votes: 57 9.0%

  • Total voters
    634
The thing is with Half Life: The Next One they still kinda have themselves written into a corner. The storyline has a narrow range of places it can go because it's still beholden to where HL2 and the Episodes took it.
Nah, that was mostly the fault of Episode One and Two. HL2 ended in such a way that you could do the next story. The problem is Valve made themselves and the players care about these characters (unlike say HL1) and because HL2 was developed in the era of nonstop progress with video games and graphics as a whole there was still room for more, the problem is Valve went about the worst possible model to deliver that new content.
The retcon in Alyx kind of helps, but only in as much as it gives them more wiggle room; it doesn't fundamentally solve where they are stuck with the narrative.

The problem is they have no way to pull that off again without it leaving the arc of HL2 unresolved. They need to tie up that story first, so any Half Life we get now, is never truly even capable of being HL3. It has to be a continuation of HL2. Half Life will always be about Gordon, and I think Gordon will always ultimately be in the thrall of G-Man. G-Man metaphorically represents Valve (his "employers"), wheeling Gordon out of his space cupboard so we can play as him for another instalment.
What arc? if you mean the Combine, Episode Two concluded that plot point. They're not getting reinforcements, so they are stuck with a population that no longer tolerates them and can repopulate, which the Combine for the most part cannot do.

With HLX, the Combine are probably going to be the enemies in the same way the covenant is the enemy in Halo 3. They're the major enemy faction, but they're not the overall threat that has to be dealt with. They're a fill in for an enemy that you can't really do lucidly (G-Man and his employers, the space CIA)

There's an Eric Wolpaw quote going around from like 2021 where he pretty much states the Combine aren't going to be the major threat for any future entries.

Me thinks given the stuff we know about HLX, the first 3rd will deal with getting on the Borealis and Arctic, to use against the Combine. The second 3rd will be set on the Combine Offworld (yes the "permanent offworld reassignment" offworld) where we'll set in motion a universal scale workers revolt and use the Borealis against the Combine like in Epistle 3, thus pretty much sealing the Combines fate. The last 3rd will be set in Xen ("The borderworld, Xen, is in our control for the time being") where we'll deal with G-Man directly and rescue Alyx and hopefully get something that can help rehabilitate the planet like was seen in Portal 2.

I won't be surprised if the HL2 arc ends with Gordon getting to make a similar Hobson's choice as in the first game, except this time with a much more meta thematic undercurrent about narrative and player agency and such, similar to the "a man chooses" thing in Bioshock.
Funnily enough, the plot/ending for HLX I predict will be like if BioShock Infinite made sense.

The funny part is that people's reasons for not playing it are that they don't want to invest in VR hardware. But it's barely an investment at all if you already have a gaming PC. Gamers will spend $1k to get a new graphics card that gives 10% better performance than their old one, but can't drop a hundred bucks on a second hand Quest.
To be fair, a new graphics card can mean going from having a pool of 250 games to 500 easily, regardless of whether they're worth playing or not.

VR is a new frontier (that also has largely failed) and doesn't have much going for it in terms of having AAA 8-9 hour experiences minus Alyx. Adding onto this: it's more technically involved, and its more physically involved, some people get motion sickness and it can be pretty tiring. Luckily I'm not beholden to it unless I use smooth movement which is too much for even me. It also doesn't help that most people came to the "this is just the Wii with extra steps" conclusion before I did.

but went a bit too heavy on the horror. I know several people who said they couldn't finish it (and not just the Jeff part) because they got too creeped out.
That's odd. I suppose that it would scary to a normie, but I don't remember the game doing much with horror outside of Jeff and the chapter spent in the dark. I guess Alyx is scary mostly to due to it being pretty tactile, and Jeff is done pretty well, even on later playthroughs. A fun fact is that Alyx was actually going to be much more horror and nihilistically focused, but Valve felt that it was "too depressing" even for Half-Life. I'll let you guys be the judge of whether that was the right call or not.

I don't really find HL games scary, more depressing, Ravenholm being a good example. I would say the ideas behind HL are more scary, like the Seven Hour War and the Black Mesa Incident are pretty horrifying to think about as real events, that people would live through. The only part I remember finding harrowing was Surface Tension with the battle quickly going from bad to worse in Black Mesa and the final chapters of Opposing Force where the facility has largely been abandoned and flattened, with very little people or even aliens left. I'm glad they never did anything for the Seven Hour War, it would take the Lovecraftian-ness out of it.
 
Also I will say this, if you don't like time travel, then I have some bad news: Valve was doing it as far back as Episode One given that the Vorts have to rewind HL2's ending to save Gordon and Alyx.
The HL franchise went to shit beginning with Episode 1. They just started reconning shit using HL1 slave footsoldiers now being able to counter G-man. G-Man apparently forgot to bring a sawed off shotgun because Gordon dropped vortigaunts by the dozen in the original game.
Now the game painted itself into a corner. How is Gordon going to shoot his way through killing all of the combine since apparently their original storyline for Episode 3 per Marc Laidlaw was to demonstrate even a suicide bomb using the Aurora Borealis was futile given the size of the combine?
They need to go back to the drawing board.
 
Now the game painted itself into a corner. How is Gordon going to shoot his way through killing all of the combine since apparently their original storyline for Episode 3 per Marc Laidlaw was to demonstrate even a suicide bomb using the Aurora Borealis was futile given the size of the combine?
Epistle 3 was never going to be Episode 3, and all I'll say is I'm forever grateful that we never got a version of Epistle 3 in game. Nihilistic endings are never good and make everything pointless. Even Laidlaw went back on Epistle 3 and realized it was him being jaded.
 
Epistle 3 was never going to be Episode 3, and all I'll say is I'm forever grateful that we never got a version of Epistle 3 in game. Nihilistic endings are never good and make everything pointless. Even Laidlaw went back on Epistle 3 and realized it was him being jaded.
Marc Laidlaw crashing out by publishing that was kind of pitiful but even outside the context of the episodes, Half Life is kind of jaded.
As stated previously by others you're basically a lackey for interdimensional CIA to fight a proxy war with the Combine at minimal expense.
The context of the citadel blowing up and Alyx just being abandoned to the explosion was a perfect ending to HL2 and would have been compatible with them doing HL Alyx (slight modifications to the ending) as well as HL3 in any number of potential settings two decades later.
The episodes were a cynical cash grab that worsened the narrative arc in my opinion, and unnecessary to boot since steam ended up being a gold mine. Steam was what paid for GabeN's yachts.
 
The episodes were a cynical cash grab that worsened the narrative arc in my opinion, and unnecessary to boot since steam ended up being a gold mine. Steam was what paid for GabeN's yachts.
Cynical cash grab? How? I'm not going to say that money wasn't part of the motivation, they're a business, but there was clearly a motive behind pushing technology forward. I know that's hard to see today given how old the Episodes are and HL2 has had pig lipstick put on it to make it look closer to the episodes, but you have to remember what Valve likes doing (pushing tech) and what that era was (non-stop constant increasing graphical fidelity)

On every front, I think both of the Episodes are far better than HL2, story, gameplay, everything. Most of my issues with HL2 are fixed in the episodes, that was Valve at their peak.
 
Cynical cash grab? How? I'm not going to say that money wasn't part of the motivation, they're a business, but there was clearly a motive behind pushing technology forward. I know that's hard to see today given how old the Episodes are and HL2 has had pig lipstick put on it to make it look closer to the episodes, but you have to remember what Valve likes doing (pushing tech) and what that era was (non-stop constant increasing graphical fidelity)

On every front, I think both of the Episodes are far better than HL2, story, gameplay, everything. Most of my issues with HL2 are fixed in the episodes, that was Valve at their peak.
I think they were narratively unnecessary. You spent two episodes doing what, defeating the combine presence on earth by closing the portal for good? That was already heavily implied by the ending to HL2.
They were just pumping out episodic content to generate more money and even then they didn't follow through on the third episode.
It's a footnote at this point but at the time before release it was somewhat controversial that they put out L4D2 almost immediately after L4D.
To paraphrase the meme it was all qualityslop, people only liked it because it was good and they knew it wasn't a sustainable business model so they stopped before the output worsened.
 
The episodes let mid 2000s geeks get first person hugged by a blasian post apoc tomboy who you later get full permission from her generic NPC promoted to Valve Black Man father to plaster her FULLY MODELED geometry with your gluon gun after some magic negro space Uncle Remus' bond your souls across dimensions using Starship Trooper Bug cum.

That was the clear and reasonable purpose of the episodes.
 
Yet another long tismy video essay about Half-Life and Black Mesa has been posted on YouTube.
 
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Cynical cash grab?
Forcing people onto Steam even if they bought the DVD (or CDs) lead to widespread adoption of new kinds of DRM. Breaking up future content and withholding story and levels to release as episodic content instead of complete expansion packs was another long term terrible aspect of Half Life 2. Neither of these decisions were anything other than cash grabs and market strategies (to get Gabe more yachts).
Marc Laidlaw crashing out by publishing that was kind of pitiful but even outside the context of the episodes, Half Life is kind of jaded.
The ending essentially reads like him being bitter over Valve 'abandoning' him and continuing to make Half Life games without him.
 
The episodes let mid 2000s geeks get first person hugged by a blasian post apoc tomboy who you later get full permission from her generic NPC promoted to Valve Black Man father to plaster her FULLY MODELED geometry with your gluon gun after some magic negro space Uncle Remus' bond your souls across dimensions using Starship Trooper Bug cum.

That was the clear and reasonable purpose of the episodes.
If they kept making games by episode 15 valve could have completed the gf experience by giving geeks the postpartum depression alcoholic Alyx.
 
What arc? if you mean the Combine, Episode Two concluded that plot point. They're not getting reinforcements, so they are stuck with a population that no longer tolerates them and can repopulate, which the Combine for the most part cannot do.
Not just the combine, but the physical situation of where the characters are located, where they go next, what they do...

HL2 was essentially HL1 on a grander scale, but it didn't rely on you knowing what happened at Black Mesa. You still learned everything you needed to know about HL2, in HL2. Gordon is just this guy shoved into the middle of a hostile situation and by some cruel twist of quantum dynamics there's only ever one path he can take that doesn't result in death (or "failure to preserve mission critical assets" like it says if you drive your car off a cliff and fuck up the timeline). They have to contrive a narrative for the future entries that allows that formula to be used; otherwise what identity does it have?

From where Ep2 and Alyx leave the pieces, it's hard to see how they can cleanly move things along in a way that doesn't rely on players having played or know what happened in the previous entries to understand what's going on.

It almost seems too obvious that the intention is for Alyx to take over as the new "main protagonist", since she is now the one in G-Man's (read: Valve's) employ, and he can pluck her out and insert her wherever he wants to in this inradimensional civil war. But I just... I don't like that. And if that was the intent why do we get the whole cocktease of shifting back to Gordon's POV and grabbing the crowbar at the end of Alyx.

I suppose that it would scary to a normie, but I don't remember the game doing much with horror outside of Jeff and the chapter spent in the dark. I guess Alyx is scary mostly to due to it being pretty tactile, and Jeff is done pretty well, even on later playthroughs. A fun fact is that Alyx was actually going to be much more horror and nihilistically focused, but Valve felt that it was "too depressing" even for Half-Life. I'll let you guys be the judge of whether that was the right call or not.
I understand why people felt that way. I haven't been scared by a videogame in the longest time, but I was 15 or 16 or something like that back when I first played Half Life 2 and I remember it being pretty unsettling. Not outright scary, but the atmosphere slowly getting under your skin. I think it's the extra immersion of VR, because I definitely got that feeling again, something I haven't felt in years, and doubt I would have if I played it flat.

I think it was the part where you first get the shotgun I was confused why I felt uneasy and why I was slowing down, before I realised "Wait... Am I afraid? Awesome" I guess that lots of normies just don't like putting themselves through that kind of feeling on purpose, and maybe weren't expecting it going in so it caught them off guard.

I recall the commentary saying something about how they put Russell's radio chatter in as a way to relieve the tension and stop players feeling so alone, but come to think of it, that was an overall detriment to the game. The loneliness is where that unsettling creepy vibe comes from, I think. Actually that's probably what lets the atmosphere down most in Ep1/Ep2 too.

TL;DR I want to feel the existential dread of being alone in an alien dystopia
 
If they kept making games by episode 15 valve could have completed the gf experience by giving geeks the postpartum depression alcoholic Alyx.
It would also have been latched onto by troons infiltrating the fanbase, with demands that Alyx be made a "transwoman".
 
"Im judging this game in a vacuum"
"Where is my audio logs 'n collectable shits ?"

But i get it where this dude opinion came from by personal experience... I played GTA vice city first. Then tried the OG GTA3 and ohh boy it was an absolute dogshit compared to vice city, but gta 3 was the FIRST 3d gta, but simple quality of life improvements spoilde me like a single fucking world map or the ability to go back to previous parts of the map.

Thats why Black Mesa exist...
 
It almost seems too obvious that the intention is for Alyx to take over as the new "main protagonist", since she is now the one in G-Man's (read: Valve's) employ, and he can pluck her out and insert her wherever he wants to in this inradimensional civil war. But I just... I don't like that. And if that was the intent why do we get the whole cocktease of shifting back to Gordon's POV and grabbing the crowbar at the end of Alyx.
Nah, they aren't switching to Alyx as the protag, if she is even playable it'll likely be something close to how Max Payne 2 or Resident Evil 4 handled it's deuteragonists, a couple levels dedicated to them.

I know Alyx was 6 years ago but there'd be very little reason to do the post credits scene if they had no intention of having Gordon as the returning protagonist. We also have a reference to Gordon in HLX via some icons and some strings reference the HEV suit, which when Valve found out about it changed it be something inconspicuous like "Burbank suit". Alyx the game was titled Alyx for a reason, I think that if they were going to switch to Alyx as the protag going forward they'd be less overt about it.

It's not like the PC has to be an agent of the G-Man, you're not technically hired yet in HL1 or OP4, and Barney isn't either. I would say the only defining characteristic you need is a character that the G-Man has some interest in.I think they were narratively unnecessary. You spent two episodes doing what, defeating the combine presence on earth by closing the portal for good? That was already heavily implied by the ending to HL2.
They were just pumping out episodic content to generate more money and even then they didn't follow through on the third episode.
It's a footnote at this point but at the time before release it was somewhat controversial that they put out L4D2 almost immediately after L4D.
To paraphrase the meme it was all qualityslop, people only liked it because it was good and they knew it wasn't a sustainable business model so they stopped before the output worsened.
Forcing people onto Steam even if they bought the DVD (or CDs) lead to widespread adoption of new kinds of DRM. Breaking up future content and withholding story and levels to release as episodic content instead of complete expansion packs was another long term terrible aspect of Half Life 2. Neither of these decisions were anything other than cash grabs and market strategies (to get Gabe more yachts).
You guys keep bringing up the cash grab angle and I don't see it, again I will agree that money is partially the reason, but they themselves gave reasons as to why the episodes were even done. Also qualityslop, really?

The ending essentially reads like him being bitter over Valve 'abandoning' him and continuing to make Half Life games without him.
Maybe. Laidlaw left early 2016, probably already had the idea by 2015. The Lab, which led to the conception of Alyx, hadn't even been released yet by the time Laidlaw left. I don't know what Laidlaw's relationships with his peers was, but I kinda doubt that Epistle 3 would've existed had he known something new was being worked on. I don't think the script came from a place of "you guys are working on another story but I want to tell my version!", I think he was just mad that he'd been abandoned, full stop. He had a story he wanted to tell but never had the time or place to do so. Laidlaw's also stated that Epistle 3 came from a place of "derangement" and that he was "extremely isolated" when he wrote it, so there's that point too.
 
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