Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Seventh Star]

Every time someone brings up the names Alastor, Charlie, Vaggie, and Husk, the more I start to think that these characters, their designs, and their characterizations, were all awful from the very beginning. Angel Dust was actually the only thing I liked about this show.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

If korra, mako and asami genders would be reversed, this whole thing would be super fucked.

Its really funny that you can do this for most popular lesbian relationships in fiction and you end up with the most abusive relationships imaginable.

Case in point, make Chloe male in life is strange and the story becomes about a fucked up abusive relationship instead of "two friends finding one another."

People really are conditioned to ignore abuse from women.

 

[Seventh Star]

Its really funny that you can do this for most popular lesbian relationships in fiction and you end up with the most abusive relationships imaginable.

Case in point, make Chloe male in life is strange and the story becomes about a fucked up abusive relationship instead of "two friends finding one another."

People really are conditioned to ignore abuse from women.

I mean, from what I've heard that's just an accurate lesbian relationship anyways.

 

[AnOminous]

I mean, from what I've heard that's just an accurate lesbian relationship anyways.

Long-term lesbian relationships are usually more Gertrude Stein/Alice B. Toklas than anything seen in porn for straight guys.

 

[liam dees]

I don't know if i missed this but I heard talk of some cozyart youtuber LavenderTowne doing shitty redesigns of HH characters and getting BTFO by Twittard Fa(g)ns. So I would like to ask KF's expert opinion on this situation

 

[LucasSomething]

Its really funny that you can do this for most popular lesbian relationships in fiction and you end up with the most abusive relationships imaginable.

Case in point, make Chloe male in life is strange and the story becomes about a fucked up abusive relationship instead of "two friends finding one another."

People really are conditioned to ignore abuse from women.

That's exactly who i was thinking about, but to be "fair", guy-on-guy abuse is even more ignored because men think it's hilarious and women think it's hot, with vivzie playing both cards with no self awareness.

But media in general usually portrays female abusers as "victims of society" so they get a pass.

I think Viv is just terrible at writing romantic relationships, whether they be hetero or homo. Moxxie and Millie was cute and wholesome at first, but became boring real quick, mostly due to the fact that Millie is a nothing character. We can see why Moxxie loves Millie and wants to be with her, but we don't know why or what Millie loves about Moxxie. Same goes for Ozzie and Fizz, who started out as an interesting dynamic, but immediately by they're next appearance became sanitized. Ozzie's character now solely relys on Fizz, and Fizz was woobified.

Same goes for her building up relationships. Stolas and Blitzø could have worked if there was proper buildup to them falling for one another. But that requires effort and skill, so it's better to gaslight the audience that they have always loved each other, they're just terrible at communicating it, and this relationship wasn't solely built on transactional fucking. Angel Dust and Husk are most likely going to end up together, even though there's no logical reason why they should. No chemistry beforehand, with Husk being especially annoyed with Angel Dust, only to have one scene where they go out of character to randomly start caring about each other.

So, could Charlie and Vaggie work as a lesbian relationship? I'd say yes. But only if Vaggie became her own character, we get good reasons for why they would love each other, interactions between them that builds on their relationship dynamic, and a competent director that knows what the fuck they are doing.

Hinata barely has a character and her liking naruto makes sense. She grew in a strict family and is too coward to fight for her dreams so she respects him for that. So how vivzie worse than shounen for children?

Well, i personally think Vivzie suffers from Tumblr brainrot where she imagines relationships as "ship dynamics" instead of human characters with personal reasons to actually hang out with one another. Characters are not written as human beings with background and personal goals first, they're written in a way that fits the "mold" she needs.



Note how these are literally Alastor or Valentino + Vox, Adam + Lute, Pentius + Cherry (or angel + husk) and Lucifer + Lilith.

Aw fuck, now i'm starting to see Vaggie + Charlie as Princess + Bodyguard dynamics (very popular in lesbian AU fanfics) and it all makes sense. Especially with her singing about protecting charlie.



Every relationship vivzie writers is like a fanfiction version of itself.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

It's hard to explain but there's something inherently missing in lesbians for emotional beats, while using guys is more compelling, mostly when one of them is girly anyways.

I'll bite. Explain this in a way that isn't creepy because the way you're explaining it right now just sounds like standard homosexual misogyny while giving off pedophilic vibes at the same time.

 

[Tablet County]

I'll bite. Explain this in a way that isn't creepy because the way you're explaining it right now just sounds like standard homosexual misogyny while giving off pedophilic vibes at the same time.

>pedophilic vibes
Is this a self-report like with that guy who thought Niffty was lolicon bait?

 

[Seventh Star]

I'll bite. Explain this in a way that isn't creepy because the way you're explaining it right now just sounds like standard homosexual misogyny while giving off pedophilic vibes at the same time.

What I'm saying is that it can emulate the dynamic of a regular heterosexual couple, with the woman figure like Angel Dust and the man like Husk/Alastor. But even if you don't have that, at the end of the day having two dudes is a good starting point for any story, and they will still have the need to fuck eachother, so there's always some passion involved.

Charlie and Vaggie have no dynamic or chemistry together, and I feel that it's unavoidable because lesbians just don't seem to have that kind of endearment, or at least I haven't found anything current portraying it. From first hand experience it has never looked naturally passionate to me, just very awkward and mostly about transactional sex, and I've met quite a few lesbians in my life. They've always seemed sad to me.

I don't know how to explain it but there's something lacking in there. Maybe its just that I like traditional dynamics more and having two equally boring people doesn't make me feel anything, I dunno. One thing though, where do you get the balls to talk about pedophilic vibes, I just think men who dress and look like ladies are hot.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

What I'm saying is that it can emulate the dynamic of a regular heterosexual couple, with the woman figure like Angel Dust and the man like Husk/Alastor. But even if you don't have that, at the end of the day having two dudes is a good starting point for any story, and they will still have the need to fuck eachother, so there's always some passion involved.

Charlie and Vaggie have no dynamic or chemistry together, and I feel that it's unavoidable because lesbians just don't seem to have that kind of endearment, or at least I haven't found anything current portraying it. From first hand experience it has never looked naturally passionate to me, just very awkward and mostly about transactional sex, and I've met quite a few lesbians in my life. They've always seemed sad to me.

I don't know how to explain it but there's something lacking in there. Maybe its just that I like traditional dynamics more and having two equally boring people doesn't make me feel anything, I dunno. One thing though, where do you get the balls to talk about pedophilic vibes, I just think men who dress and look like ladies are hot.

You're not really explaining why you can do it with men but not with women in general though, which is the main question. I agree charlie and vaggie are writen like shit, but I don't see why stories about lesbian couples are somehow doomed to fail but ones about gay couples aren't.

One thing though, where do you get the balls to talk about pedophilic vibes, I just think men who dress and look like ladies are hot.

>pedophilic vibes
Is this a self-report like with that guy who thought Niffty was lolicon bait?

If I see a gay man say he's looking for "girly" men its an instant red flag. There's a reason the slang is "femboy" and not "femman".

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Hinata barely has a character and her liking naruto makes sense. She grew in a strict family and is too coward to fight for her dreams so she respects him for that.

The Anime also helped in that Naruto told some bullies to leave her alone and got his ass beat for it.

 

[Seventh Star]

If I see a gay man say he's looking for "girly" men its an instant red flag. There's a reason the slang is "femboy" and not "femman".

If your entire reasoning is based on etymology, it's retarded. Homophobia doesn't mean you piss yourself when you see a faggot. Okay, lady like, whatever. Do you think everyone who likes Angel Dust is a pedo?

You're not really explaining why you can do it with men but not with women in general though, which is the main question.

I mean I can't explain it better, but there's something about it missing, maybe it's something from women having behavioural differences from men. Lesbian bed death and lesbian domestic violence aren't a meme for no reason, so it might have to do with it.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

If your entire reasoning is based on etymology, it's retarded.

The etymology isn't coincidental considering the pedophilia statistics among the gay crowd.

I mean I can't explain it better, but there's something about it missing, maybe it's something from women having behavioural differences from men. Lesbian bed death and lesbian domestic violence aren't a meme for no reason, so it might have to do with it.

Right, but gay infidelity and promiscuity are also things. If inherent bed death and domestic violence make lesbian stories untennable, why doesn't inherent infidelity and promiscuity make gay stories untennable for the same reason?

 

[Seventh Star]

Right, but gay infidelity and promiscuity are also things. If inherent bed death and domestic violence make lesbian stories untennable, why doesn't inherent infidelity and promiscuity make gay stories untennable for the same reason?

Because promiscuity and infidelity are a thing for everyone else too. It's not about the bed death and domestic violence in itself, its as to why it happens. Plus, sure gay men are often cheating whores, but cheating whores still have passion.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Because promiscuity and infidelity are a thing for everyone else too. It's not about the bed death and domestic violence in itself, its as to why it happens. Plus, sure gay men are often cheating whores, but cheating whores still have passion.

Bed death and domestic violence are things everyone else does in the same way promiscuity and infidelity are. Lesbians aren't unique in them, just more prominent. (With gays being more prominent in the opposite)

Also, promiscuity isn't passion, its the opposite, that being passionless sex. You can't have passion for strangers.

 

[liam dees]

So how vivzie worse than shounen for children?

Let me answer your question with another question: Which story is more honest and genuine between the two?

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Aw fuck, now i'm starting to see Vaggie + Charlie as Princess + Bodyguard dynamics (very popular in lesbian AU fanfics) and it all makes sense. Especially with her singing about protecting charlie.

Lmao, isn't that the plot of that god awful willow show that was so bad disney nuked it 6 months after release and erased all proof it ever existed?

 

[Seventh Star]

Aw fuck, now i'm starting to see Vaggie + Charlie as Princess + Bodyguard dynamics (very popular in lesbian AU fanfics) and it all makes sense. Especially with her singing about protecting charlie.

Except that makes no sense since Charlie is more powerful than Vaggie from what I recall.

 

[The Nothingness]

We can see why Moxxie loves Millie and wants to be with her, but we don't know why or what Millie loves about Moxxie.

The more I think about, was there a reason why Moxxie loves Millie? Looking at the shipping tropes Vivzie likes, they seem to be a combination of the goofy partners in crime and the Gomez/Morticia dynamic. Maybe it was back in the first season or the the camp episode and I just forgot.

 

[Resident Knievel]

Should have kept it simple and unique. "A demon princess tries to redeem sinners." "Imp assassins from Hell run a human killing business."

Either of them are simple concepts that could be executed any number of ways and be unique.

Now it's "gay guys do gay things." There's no shortage of that on this market.

She literally cannot help herself, and i can kind of understand it since I’ve had a (small) background in writing for TV and film. Keeping scope-creep away is HARD. It’s why you work with your TEAM to keep it in check. Look at George Lucas. The second he didn’t have people telling him “no George that’s retarded stop it” his movies sucked (the prequels)

That being said viv doesn’t even try since it KEEPS HAPPENING. It happened with Helluva, it happened with Zoophobia, and it’s happening with Hazbin