Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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At one point doesn't husk literally outright exposit the character traits of everyone in the room? I don't remember if it was the series or the pilot. I remember that he literally points to charlie and goes "You have daddy issues."

"at one point" lol it was literally the start of episode 4 and i mentioned here where that's bizarre since that scene wasnt earned.


"afaik husk has been in the hotel for less than a week and talked to these people once or twice, he's in no place to be psychoanalysing everyone. It's tell don't show to it's cheapest.

The show also really hammers how Charlie got "daddy issues this daddy issues that" yet that was total bullshit in hindsight wasnt it?


Charlie literally says that "We never been really close" and "he only calls me when he needs me to do something" yet when Lucifer appears he's the most supportive dad ever and is overjoyed that his daughter finally wants to talk with him.
 
Charlie literally says that "We never been really close" and "he only calls me when he needs me to do something" yet when Lucifer appears he's the most supportive dad ever and is overjoyed that his daughter finally wants to talk with him.
To be fair if this wasn't written by an idiot who has never had family issues, those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
I know, but it feels like it’s everywhere. Baldur’s Gate 3 has this issue, Pathfinder WoTR has characters spilling their guts out for no reason, Bojack Horseman has this issue, it feels like it’s everywhere.
Bojack Horseman sucks though so it’s not surprising. Also nobody plays Balling Gay 3 for the story, they play it because it’s fun to grab a friend or two and break the game in half doing stupid shit like stacking boxes to snipe someone from a mile away
 
"at one point" lol it was literally the start of episode 4 and i mentioned here where that's bizarre since that scene wasnt earned.


"afaik husk has been in the hotel for less than a week and talked to these people once or twice, he's in no place to be psychoanalysing everyone. It's tell don't show to it's cheapest.

The show also really hammers how Charlie got "daddy issues this daddy issues that" yet that was total bullshit in hindsight wasnt it?


Charlie literally says that "We never been really close" and "he only calls me when he needs me to do something" yet when Lucifer appears he's the most supportive dad ever and is overjoyed that his daughter finally wants to talk with him.
Wouldn't it be nice to actually SEE these scenes instead of characters talking about them? Even a quick flashback after Husk says his thoughts about each person would be fine and could be comedic. Fuck, even with its horrendous editing, the Helluva Boss pilot managed to do this.

It also probably doesn't help with the fact that time doesn't move naturally in the show. Just go through the motions of each plot beat on screen and just wait for the next one when needed. Charlie freaks out that five months have passed and nothing has worked? Well, maybe if you actually did ANYTHING in those supposed five months that have magically passed, I would feel the stress of said scene. But for all I know, we get like a week of events for the first four episodes, and then everyone sits on their asses doing absolutely NOTHING for the rest of the time.
 
Wouldn't it be nice to actually SEE these scenes instead of characters talking about them? Even a quick flashback after Husk says his thoughts about each person would be fine and could be comedic. Fuck, even with its horrendous editing, the Helluva Boss pilot managed to do this.
I'm guessing the budget limited what the animators could do since the musical numbers likely took up a big chunk of it.
 
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What happened to the original plot of the show in the later episodes anyways? It went to Charlie running a hotel that try to redeem demons then a couple episodes later it turns into about a war with Heaven and Hell? To be fair during the fight Sir Pentious get's one shot by Adam and is reborn into Heaven as an Angel due to...Being brave???

This leads into another flaw in the setting of the show, how does one even get redeem to go into Heaven? In the show Angels themselves don't know and quickly write up something to
hand to Charlie. Also, what type of religious morals is being used to determine who goes to Heaven or Hell in this universe?

(I don't know If this in the show or I'm just talking out of my ass, been a bit since I watched the show.)
 
What happened to the original plot of the show in the later episodes anyways? It went to Charlie running a hotel that try to redeem demons then a couple episodes later it turns into about a war with Heaven and Hell? To be fair during the fight Sir Pentious get's one shot by Adam and is reborn into Heaven as an Angel due to...Being brave???

This leads into another flaw in the setting of the show, how does one even get redeem to go into Heaven? In the show Angels themselves don't know and quickly write up something to
hand to Charlie. Also, what type of religious morals is being used to determine who goes to Heaven or Hell in this universe?

(I don't know If this in the show or I'm just talking out of my ass, been a bit since I watched the show.)
Here is my crackpot theory: The show if it ever concludes in a way satisfactory to Vivz will end the story with all the sinners redeemed and the exterminators / angels who don't like sinners will become the new citizens of Hell. Basically a reversal of roles. Because remember Vivz is a self-hating individual and this is the perfect spite against her ontological enemy: religious Conservatives and Republicans etc.

TL;DR: The show will end by saying all progressive values is what makes you truly good and deserving of Heaven, and if you disagree you are literally Hitler demons.
 
I've been pondering how to have Charlie be more than just a naive Disney Princess and what I've come up with so far seems to work if the show is not a musical comedy. Being the daughter of Lucifer and Lilith, Charlie would be persuasive and manipulative as she's the one the Overlords answer to in her parents' absences (if Charlie is going to be in a pants suit, at least have her be assertive). Her deal with Heaven would be an inverse of the wager between God and Satan in the Book of Job where if a sinner turns away from their vices and redeems themselves, then they will be let into Heaven. Charlie and Alastor would have a mental chess match as the Charlie knows Alastor is a dangerous demon (outside of her parents) and keeps him on a short leash. For potential daddy issues, both Charlie and Lucifer are prideful individuals and Lucifer thinks his daughter's efforts to save their subjects from extermination are futile.
 
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I think it would have been cool if Adam just lost his shit when he saw Lucifer. Like had a real Sanguinis moment where he slammed him around while screaming about how he ruined everything he built, about how Adam's children, all of humanity, are lured to evil deeds by Lucifers actions.
If you're gonna write the equivalent to biblical yaoi fan fiction, at least make it dramatic.

Disclaimer: I have never watched this show in any serious capacity, that's way too many musicals for one heterosexual male.
 
Because remember Vivz is a self-hating individual and this is the perfect spite against her ontological enemy: religious Conservatives and Republicans etc.
Has she even said anything particularly deranged about religion? She won't even directly include Jesus or God. No euphoric atheist worth a shit would hesitate to shit all over Jesus.
 
Has she even said anything particularly deranged about religion? She won't even directly include Jesus or God. No euphoric atheist worth a shit would hesitate to shit all over Jesus.
Three Options:

One: The tard-wranglers actually did their job and so she spergs less about religion specifically. (incredibly :optimistic:)

Two: She actually maintains good relations to her religious family and hence refrains from causing personal rifts in public by sperging about religion.

Three: She is the kind of artist who reveals her personal opinions through her art, which is why HB turned out so scatterbrained.

One thing I will always be certain: Vivz still views Conservatives as bigots as many of them refer to religion as a reasoning behind their beliefs and actions. She thus hates not religion directly but by proxy of the actions of those who are religious...
 
Has she even said anything particularly deranged about religion? She won't even directly include Jesus or God. No euphoric atheist worth a shit would hesitate to shit all over Jesus.
I don't think Vivz hate religion, I think she's easily influenced by her time. If this was the early 2000's at the height of TJ Kirk's popularity she'd be preaching how religion is the worst thing in the world, now because LBBQ is the big thing she's jumped onto that thing, when tomorrow the page turns and caring about Salmon mating habits is the new big thing you can bet each episode will have some message about how dams kill fish or something.
 
Two: She actually maintains good relations to her religious family and hence refrains from causing personal rifts in public by sperging about religion.
This is my personal opinion. I think Vivz doesn't want to alienate her family. I also think that's actually a good thing. Turning the show into a euphoric screed would be even worse than turning it into nonstop faggotry like she has actually done.
 
I don't think Vivz hate religion, I think she's easily influenced by her time. If this was the early 2000's at the height of TJ Kirk's popularity she'd be preaching how religion is the worst thing in the world, now because LBBQ is the big thing she's jumped onto that thing, when tomorrow the page turns and caring about Salmon mating habits is the new big thing you can bet each episode will have some message about how dams kill fish or something.
Can't wait to see Season Two's opening song where Charlie sings about how beautiful Hell is, peers into a window and sees salmon raping each other. Fun for everyone, especially fish!!!
 
I've been pondering how to have Charlie be more than just naive Disney Princess and what I've come up with so far seems to work if the show is not a musical comedy. Being the daughter of Lucifer and Lilith, Charlie would be persuasive and manipulative as she would be the one the Overlords answer to in her parents' absences (if Charlie is going to be in a pants suit, at least have her be assertive. Her deal with Heaven would be like the Book of Job but in reverse where if a sinner turns away from their vices and redeems themselves, then they will be let into Heaven. Charlie and Alastor would have a mental chess match as the Charlie knows Alastor is a dangerous demon (outside of her parents) and keeps him on a short leash. For potential daddy issues, both Charlie and Lucifer are prideful individuals and Lucifer thinks his daughter's efforts to save their subjects from extermination are futile.
Fraudastor is not dangerous lol, there’s no fucking way. I’m not buying this HoldsBackMan bullshit. Not since MHA have I seen a character pull up with some lame ass line, get blown away in one swing, and still have half the fan base glazing them. That fight was NOT gas, that shit put Alastor on fraudwatch lol
 
Three Options:

One: The tard-wranglers actually did their job and so she spergs less about religion specifically. (incredibly :optimistic:)

Two: She actually maintains good relations to her religious family and hence refrains from causing personal rifts in public by sperging about religion.

Three: She is the kind of artist who reveals her personal opinions through her art, which is why HB turned out so scatterbrained.

One thing I will always be certain: Vivz still views Conservatives as bigots as many of them refer to religion as a reasoning behind their beliefs and actions. She thus hates not religion directly but by proxy of the actions of those who are religious...
I think it's way more basic than that and she just has minimal understanding/care about religion and largely likes the aesthetics of it more than anything else. She's still in her highschool "but what if devils are actually the misunderstood good guy" edgy mentality phase. If she was a dude instead, chances are we'd have a Devil May Cry style anime, where Charlie is replaced with a Dante stand in. Beyond knowing a few names, it feels like she has pretty minimal knowledge of anything religious. I feel like the closest she's had to a religious take is a vague "religion is bad for judging fags" vibe, which again, I think fits with the highschool level take on religion.

It's basically the same with her takes on things like 30's or 50's culture. There's one or two things she likes from it, usually the broadest of possible strokes like "radio" or "old TV" and then she ignores everything else and treats the characters like they're all your average modern day college student in California.

It is pretty weird because she's been obsessed with the idea of heaven/hell storytelling in all her projects, so you'd think there'd be *something* deeper going on there. I dunno if she's just so unoriginal she thinks that's the only way she can justify a world with weird looking characters instead of just setting it in the orignial word of Vivtopia or whatever.
 
Three Options:

One: The tard-wranglers actually did their job and so she spergs less about religion specifically. (incredibly :optimistic:)

Two: She actually maintains good relations to her religious family and hence refrains from causing personal rifts in public by sperging about religion.

Three: She is the kind of artist who reveals her personal opinions through her art, which is why HB turned out so scatterbrained.

One thing I will always be certain: Vivz still views Conservatives as bigots as many of them refer to religion as a reasoning behind their beliefs and actions. She thus hates not religion directly but by proxy of the actions of those who are religious...

Not only that, but she also joined in on the dogpiling when Scott Cawthon was being cancelled for his political and religious beliefs.

Someone a while back also mentioned how she was seen in a Twitter conversation where she said something along the lines of, "If Christians think we queers are going to hell, we'll just have to reclaim hell." Aside from that, it's easy to read between the lines and see that she doesn't think very highly of the Abrahamic religions, mainly because they tell her that homosexuality and other sacred leftist rites are morally wrong.

I rerember seeing on her Twitter something along those lines "it's crazy how Christians complain about queer artists representing hell in their arts when this is where they told us we'll end up anyway"
Also, one of her crew members rambled about how important it was to her to work on a show set in hell with gay stuff in it as a queer woman with religious trauma and Viv responded with "we do be reclaiming hell
😎
".
Also the show is clearly inclined towards "heaven and god are the real bad guys and hell is full of oppressed gay people".
I don't know how you can't see that Viv ressent Christianity.
 
Someone a while back also mentioned how she was seen in a Twitter conversation where she said something along the lines of, "If Christians think we queers are going to hell, we'll just have to reclaim hell."
This actually sums up the point I was trying to make earlier way more clearly. Viv is obsessed with the idea of heaven and hell for some strange reason, but doesn't actually want to write about what heaven and hell would "realistically" be. That's why her version of hell is so watered down to basically remove the majority of the bad elements, like no racists/bigots/child molesters etc. There''s a couple of villainous characters, but they really seem to be the exception to the rule. There's some violence, but it's very cartoony and hard to tell if it's supposed to really be taken seriously or more just played for laughs. But otherwise, hell is more or less a safe space for the faggy characters to exist.

It isn't even just that hell has all the bad elements stripped down, but a lot of the interesting elements are gone, like having a bunch of different people from various cultures/time periods interacting with one another. Heaven seems equally stripped down, with little thought put into how paradise functions, what someone has to do to get into Heaven, who decides, where's God etc. While not everyone we see in Heaven is outright evil, it largely exists as an oppressive force for our plucky gay underdog heroes to ultimately overcome and defeat.

In Viv's eyes, hell is the cool rebellious teenager that society just doesn't understand, and heaven is "the man" that has to be overthrown. And on paper, those concepts are fine, I bet 10 years ago if I saw a cartoon like that on adult swim, my teenage self would have loved it and praised it as being deep and profound and laughed at all the people saying fuck a bunch. But it sounds like what really drew a lot of people in is the setting, which Viv completely fails to utilize in any meaningful way.

That's why I think the simplest way to save the show is change Heaven to a massive city/dimension/whatever called Utopia. It's a high-society place where only good people are accepted by the council. Once you turn 18 or 21 or whatever age they decide, you're judged on whether you get to stay, or you're banished to into the wastes, which is also where any criminal offenders go. They're considered subhuman, and the upper class in Utopia pull a purge every year under the guise of quelling the population, but it's just those jerkish rich characters looking for an excuse to beat up the gay lower class. It's in no way a unique premise, but it's more honest about who the target audience is/the overall goal of the show.
 
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