Cyber Bowling
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2017
I know it's been mentioned before, but I think the bigger overall issue with Viv is she really sucks at writing conflict. It's rough if a show promises one thing, whether it's about redemption in hell, demon assassins etc. and ends up delivering a completely different premise. If the show is at least written well, it can still be interesting, even if you have to adjust your expectations a little.
Good melodrama is hard to write because the make or break factor is often the characters. For it to work, you have to care about all of the involved characters, which means they have to have, well, character. Good *and* bad traits. Intentionally. Viv doesn't really understand how to write flawed characters. Not to say her characters are perfect, but I think they're unintentionally flawed in a lot of cases, so it's hard to focus stories around those flaws if you don't think they're present.
So, you need a character with good and bad traits, but you also have to make them compelling, which is the tricky part. If they're a total scumbag, the audience won't want to see them succeed. If they're too perfect, it's hard to manufacture drama because it either requires someone acting wildly out of character or some sort of external threat. External threat is the easy option, but you can only do that so many times before it becomes too repetitive. And even then, the external threat still needs to be interesting.
Viv clearly draws a lot of inspiration from fanfic writing. One of the advantages fanfic writing has going for it is a lot of the heavy lifting is already done because you're typically using/drawing upon preexisting worlds or characters, so everyone is roughly on the same page without having to do any buildup. You can also focus on a brief moment and don't really have to worry about the potential consequences. Basically, the beginning/middle/end is heavily abridged, and the primary focus is on the climax. Sometimes literally, depending on the fics you're reading.
It's one of the reasons why I disagree with the episode length being an issue for Viv. I think she's actually better with fewer episodes because she doesn't even really know what to do with an already short season. It wasn't a lack of episodes that led to poor pacing and underdeveloped characters, it was Viv not knowing how to write conflict, so she just jumps from, if we're being very generous, mini-conflict to mini-conflict, which typically involves introducing new characters because she doesn't know how to do anything with her existing ones. I think it's because she's stuck in this fanfic style of writing, where characters don't really change and all they do is defeat one obstacle that more or less springs up out of nowhere, and then suddenly ends without having to do any sort of follow up.
This is a big issue if you want to write characters in relationships because I think a lot of writers struggle with what happens after the will they/won't they, because that part is arguably the most interesting bit. I think fanfic writers tend to struggle with the "what happens next" bit in relationships especially, which is why so many toxic ships tend to exist. They just want the cute characters to fuck. It's fine for fanfic because the fic ends when they hook up. Viv doesn't have that luxury, she has to keep making a show. And even worse for Viv, because her shows can't take place in the same bubble as a fanfic, the audience has more of an opportunity to see that the characters ultimately just don't work together, and then it becomes frustrating when the show becomes absorbed with following two characters that aren't actually compatible, so there's no reason to care about them.
Now that I'm thinking about it...I think that's why so many people liked the pilot of Hazbin and were disappointed by the show. It worked in that small bubble, but then when it came time to expand on it, Viv had no idea what to really do and completely dropped the ball and created a show that's basically dangling keys and songs in front of the viewer, introducing new characters and slightly stitched together scenes that vaguely resemble a plot so they hopefully don't realize the complete lack of substance.
Good melodrama is hard to write because the make or break factor is often the characters. For it to work, you have to care about all of the involved characters, which means they have to have, well, character. Good *and* bad traits. Intentionally. Viv doesn't really understand how to write flawed characters. Not to say her characters are perfect, but I think they're unintentionally flawed in a lot of cases, so it's hard to focus stories around those flaws if you don't think they're present.
So, you need a character with good and bad traits, but you also have to make them compelling, which is the tricky part. If they're a total scumbag, the audience won't want to see them succeed. If they're too perfect, it's hard to manufacture drama because it either requires someone acting wildly out of character or some sort of external threat. External threat is the easy option, but you can only do that so many times before it becomes too repetitive. And even then, the external threat still needs to be interesting.
Viv clearly draws a lot of inspiration from fanfic writing. One of the advantages fanfic writing has going for it is a lot of the heavy lifting is already done because you're typically using/drawing upon preexisting worlds or characters, so everyone is roughly on the same page without having to do any buildup. You can also focus on a brief moment and don't really have to worry about the potential consequences. Basically, the beginning/middle/end is heavily abridged, and the primary focus is on the climax. Sometimes literally, depending on the fics you're reading.
It's one of the reasons why I disagree with the episode length being an issue for Viv. I think she's actually better with fewer episodes because she doesn't even really know what to do with an already short season. It wasn't a lack of episodes that led to poor pacing and underdeveloped characters, it was Viv not knowing how to write conflict, so she just jumps from, if we're being very generous, mini-conflict to mini-conflict, which typically involves introducing new characters because she doesn't know how to do anything with her existing ones. I think it's because she's stuck in this fanfic style of writing, where characters don't really change and all they do is defeat one obstacle that more or less springs up out of nowhere, and then suddenly ends without having to do any sort of follow up.
This is a big issue if you want to write characters in relationships because I think a lot of writers struggle with what happens after the will they/won't they, because that part is arguably the most interesting bit. I think fanfic writers tend to struggle with the "what happens next" bit in relationships especially, which is why so many toxic ships tend to exist. They just want the cute characters to fuck. It's fine for fanfic because the fic ends when they hook up. Viv doesn't have that luxury, she has to keep making a show. And even worse for Viv, because her shows can't take place in the same bubble as a fanfic, the audience has more of an opportunity to see that the characters ultimately just don't work together, and then it becomes frustrating when the show becomes absorbed with following two characters that aren't actually compatible, so there's no reason to care about them.
Now that I'm thinking about it...I think that's why so many people liked the pilot of Hazbin and were disappointed by the show. It worked in that small bubble, but then when it came time to expand on it, Viv had no idea what to really do and completely dropped the ball and created a show that's basically dangling keys and songs in front of the viewer, introducing new characters and slightly stitched together scenes that vaguely resemble a plot so they hopefully don't realize the complete lack of substance.
" that'd be actually hilarious.
"
