Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Doctor of Autism]

-He admits the assassination job took a backseat buuuut "the jobs became less significant already by first season"

It still was a workplace comedy and most of the first seasons episodes were things relating to their job in some way

Episodes 1, 3, 4, and 6 all were directly about the job.

Episode 2 was a Stolas episode but they were still hired by him to do something

Episode 5 featured a competing business in some but the theme of IMPs rising above their station with Blitzo doing his job is important.

Episode 7 and 8 were not about the assassins but its always fine to have some episodes not directly related to the premise as long as it isn't too much...which is the issue with Season 2

So like half the season was about the job, and including 2 and 5, more than half at least connected to the IMP business

-"Realistically most of these jobs wouldn't last a full episode cause they're very good at their job and forcing them to make 20 minutes episodes solely on the job would create pacing issues"

Skill issue, like Smiling Friends as a show is formulaic, you could always change the formula, have higher risk clients, or put roadblocks to make it funny like hell that moment with the gay couple could become a whole episode where one of IMP is protecting a target while the others want to kill them. I'm sure a lot of people have potential ideas.

-"People complain the show was always about killing people but was it really? Or is it fully cooked now and we are seeing what it was meant to be? I argue the latter"

It was a workplace comedy, and what we see now wasn't even present that much in Season 1, Stolas despite his relationship was always a side character in season 1 and even the stuff that focused on their relationship was more on Blitzo, like Blitzo was the central protagonist while Season 2 shoves Stolas in equal spotlight

-"The pilot was just a proof of concept and isn't even canon anymore, They changed stuff from the pilot already so is it even close to the canon series? I think not. It's the foundation of the series but not what it's meant to be."

A pilot is supposed to be a foundation and set up expectations on what its supposed to be. Hazbin Hotel in contrast setup that the show was going to be focused on validating the existence of the hotel and be about the struggles of the characters within it, the show did deliver on it. Helluva Boss' pilot was setup as a wacky workplace comedy that had a monster of the week type format, and it completely nosedived on it in the second season.

-"By episode 2 it's already not a job, it's about stolas! And this is episode 2!"

It still has Stolas hiring the IMPS to be bodyguards, and this was a criticism of how it quickly is exploring the side characters.

-"If we look at all episodes in season 1, only 2 episodes were actually a hit job. Let that sink in! People who think this show should've been just deadpool with demons, that wouldnt work"

This guys math is wrong, 3 episodes were literally about a hitjob, 1 had the consequences of one with DHORKs, and two other ones were about them being hired for another job and expanding on the theme of imps rising above their station.

-"Then again y'all dont want to awknowledge how deadpool is pansexual just like y'all can't accept husk in hazbin hotel isn't straight but i won't get into that i wont get into thaaat..."

Deadpool comics don't force most of the issues to be about his love live and Husk x Angel Dust didn't take most of the focus away in Hazbin Hotel (for now anyway)

-"Helluva boss has always been about blitz, about him forging friendships and finding love. It's his story. If you dont like the episodes i get it but you need to understand, you were not promised anything. You might have supported her patreon but in the end of the day it's vivzie's show"

No one is saying it isn't about Blitzo, but the episodes were more about Stolas than Blitzo, like we see more of Stolas' extended family and exploration with his personal life than Blitz's. Hell two episodes were about Fizz.

-"So yeah, helluva boss never changed, we just watched vivzie cook"

Vivziepop was asked to make a steak, she made a salad with steak bits on the side.

 

[Mad Hunter]

"Very good at their job."

Getting caught by DHORKS because they didn't try and find a solution to cover their tracks is being very good at their job, I suppose.


Millie and Moxxie getting distracted by the fun activities in Unhappy Campers is indeed peak workplace performance.



Like I said, if they had a better mentor, they'd be doing it better and the assassinations would still be the focus.

 

[Saxxon]

Happened to come across this.
View attachment 6926896
Apparently Charlie was supposed to be ranked a bit higher but good lord, imagine having your main character nowhere near the top three. At least Valentino isn’t in there.

Even if Charlie was on the top 3, notice how aside her all the other top tiers are exclusively male. Now, normally I wouldn't really care hasn't Viv herself described Hazbin as the "female centric show" but then doesn't seem to express any kind of enthusiasm when speaking about them. Nothing to do with her fujo tendencies I'm sure.

Going back to Charlie, someone in the thread once shared a wiki page with all the sketches and ideas that would later become Hazbin Hotel, many pointed out how odd it was that Viv spend years refining characters like Alastor and Angel Dust but then you have Charlie that just one day manifested from thin air looking almost exactly like her pilot version. With her being at the bottom of the list, being barely effective with her redemption plans and always needing a man to save her ass, Charlie starts feeling more like an after-thought than a fully fleshed character.

Like how is possible that we have more early sketches and concept art of fucking Vaggie than those of the main character?

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Happened to come across this.
View attachment 6926896
Apparently Charlie was supposed to be ranked a bit higher but good lord, imagine having your main character nowhere near the top three. At least Valentino isn’t in there.

I'm actually surprised Velvette is in the top 10 and not Vox especially when accounting to what a nothing character she was in Season 1.

 

[Mad Hunter]

Even if Charlie was on the top 3, notice how aside her all the other top tiers are exclusively male. Now, normally I wouldn't really care hasn't Viv herself described Hazbin as the "female centric show" but then doesn't seem to express any kind of enthusiasm when speaking about them. Nothing to do with her fujo tendencies I'm sure.

Going back to Charlie, someone in the thread once shared a wiki page with all the sketches and ideas that would later become Hazbin Hotel, many pointed out how odd it was that Viv spend years refining characters like Alastor and Angel Dust but then you have Charlie that just one day manifested from thin air looking almost exactly like her pilot version. With her being at the bottom of the list, being barely effective with her redemption plans and always needing a man to save her ass, Charlie starts feeling more like an after-thought than a fully fleshed character.

Like how is possible that we have more early sketches and concept art of fucking Vaggie than those of the main character?

Because the girls are her rivals because Viv also has a crush on the male characters she made. Why else do fujoshis get so angry the moment they realize that the male character they fetishistically pair with another male they self-insert with canonically has a crush on a female character that isn't their self-insert, too?

 

[The Fair Lady]

I guess I should argue that the show was supposed to be a workplace comedy, kind of like The Office. And that was the focus of Season 1. The only times it didn't focus on IMP as a company was in Western Energy and Ozzie's.

You can say that Ozzie's was the turning point for the show shifting most of it's focus on Blitzø and his relationships. As season 2 continues, it becomes less about IMP and Blitzø's employee, and Stolas becomes more of a second protagonist.

This, the initial premise of the show was quite literally The Office but in Hell. Stolas was going to be a villain. Don't give me that "the pilot was never canon" shit. At some point Viv's fujoshi brain decided to make the twink owl a sympathetic woobied good guy who gets into a wannabe Romeo and Juliet type of relationship with Blitzo. Apparently Stolitz becoming canon wasn't helped by Brandon also thinking the ship was cute, but we all know Viv more than anyone wanted to see her fags take center stage.

And yes, you can have a comedy that has serious moments, a lot of them do. The problem with Helluva is that the drama became such a central focus that it took over and mutated the show into something that made tons of people wonder "what the fuck happened here?" Not to mention the majority of it is poorly written and full of plot holes.

As much as I think Ozzie's was a fun episode, that's definitely where the tonal shift began. We didn't "watch Viv cook" shit, we watched her turn a show that was first pitched as a straightforward comedy into a yaoi soap opera.

 

[Mad Hunter]

As much as I think Ozzie's was a fun episode, that's definitely where the tonal shift began.

No. It was not Ozzie's. It definitely has to be Loo Loo Land where Via starts crying to Stolas about how shit he is.


I believe Viv is being indirectly pressured by her fandom to do the hip and cool ships and angst instead of staying comedy the way the show was intended to be. As I and many others said, VIV SHOULD NOT BE LOOKING AT HER FANDOM IF IT MAKES HER SPERG SO MUCH. A positive example is Toby Fox. He interacts with the Undertale fandom to a degree, but not to the point of letting it affect his writing like "OHHH NO THEY SHIP SANS AND TORIEL BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK FUCK YOU." He did acknowledge the toxicity and NSFW controversies with his characters, but never sperged about it like Viv would. Eichiiro Oda, too, where he said in an SBS that he is totally fine with even the most abstract, weird, senseless shipping and pornography because it means people are having fun with the characters. In fact, if I were Viv, I'd let people spread all sorts of faggot porn, regardless of whether it's Stolitz or Ozzie doing a threesome with Millie and Moxxie because it's going to rake in more views and therefore, more revenue.


I think Viv lacks faith in her audience. Creators of movies, comics, manga, anime, cartoons, etc. make what they make and they most likely don't give two fucks if you make porn of Naruto and Sakura or Sasuke and Sakura because at the end of the day, they are the ones who will get the attention and money. If Viv really wants to be 100% serious about her works, she should let her fandom be and allow the craziness they come up with rake in more potential shills willing to waste money and time on her stuff.


Reason why I thought this show was peak was because I started getting invested during the pandemic when I had nothing to do. Only when things went back to normal did I finally see what was so wrong.

 

[The Nothingness]

It just occurred to me that white HH fans can only do a half-ass cosplay of Sir Pentious not just because of the snake tail, but because they cannot darken their face without explaining they are not doing blackface

 

[The Fair Lady]

No. It was not Ozzie's. It definitely has to be Loo Loo Land where Via starts crying to Stolas about how shit he is.

Nah not necessarily, that’s just when it first showed up. The drama in Loo Loo Land was really only notable at the very beginning of the episode with Octavia’s fear of her father abandoning her being established and then the end when she called Stolas out. At that early point in the series, the audience was basically told that there’d be some drama sprinkled in, not an overwhelming amount that would lead to a gay love story. I know that I, at the very least, assumed that if we got any more episodes with drama in them, it would be mostly self-contained and resolved by the end like other comedy shows.

You have to consider the overall tone of the first half of season 1 compared to the end of it - where we see Blitzo curl up on a couch and break down crying - and then the hot mess known as season 2 that followed with more melodrama. Ozzie’s is where we got the firm message that the show was now putting comedy second and drama first, specifically to build Stolitz angst.

 

[Stumbling7]

Spoiler: meme dumb 48

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

I had a retarded idea, but it would be funny, tangentially. Just read this one out:

What if this show instead of Jesus, or perhaps, preceding Jesus Christ, had a "left hand of God". Sure, historically, the right hand was the "God on Earth" emperors of the empires (Roman, Babylonian, Assyrian, etc.) which represented rules, actions and etc. And Christ could represent God's actions in that interpretations. Sure, the left hand was the one which had negative connotations, such as wiping one's anus or such. But look what I found at this curious website:

The paper attempted to clarify the concept of handedness and types of handedness. Left-handedness is extensively disapproved in most cultures. Left-Handers International, the organization responsible for formulating the “Bill of Lefts”, was organized to protect the needs and interests of left-handers everywhere. It is driven by thirteen Articles. The International Left- Handers Day is held annually every August 13th, when left-handers everywhere can celebrate their sinistrality of being lefthanded. The right hand is mentioned positively 100 times in the Bible, the left hand is mentioned only 25 times, all negatively while it also presented the right hand as a symbol of strength and honor, in the left-hand are riches and honor. However, God’s left hand is the hand of judgment.

The Sunnah of the Prophet illustrate that it is desirable to use right hand in everything that we wish to honor. The position of the Qur’an is that the child can write with his/her left hand without any problem. It is unnecessary to insist upon the child writing with his/her right hand or using the right hand in engaging the other activities requiring an extra degree of manual dexterity to avoid detrimental consequences for the child’s confidence, education and self-esteem. In the light of the foregoing discussion, the paper recommended what parents need to do to make left-handedness feel like a blessing instead of curse and suggested that teacher training institutions should train every teacher to recognize and provide for the needs of the left-handed children. Parents and teachers also need to be aware of the potential impact of self-esteem because of certain popular beliefs and myths and the strong dominance of right-handedness in our society. Positive attitudes of parents and teachers as well as positive role models, can help the child accept left-handedness as a special expression of God’s creativity.

Sure, it's probably Islamic in its essence (mentioning the Koran and such). Yet since Vivianne has fuckall idea of how to use the Bible, she could take some inspiration of something like this. The right hand (Christ) being the strength and honor, who would return eventually, while the left hand would be riches and honor who could appear in the series, being a non canon person.

He could be a "serious" version of Adam, willing to finally be a "super" exterminator, who is meant to be a threatening figure. Think of an "antichrist" but not quite - he is a legitimate person who's a co-ruler (but rightfully accepts Christ's rule and merely manages to do other things like speaking to the populace until he won't appear, IDK?). Even being willing to commit murder if needed on unbelievers preceding the Apocalypse, if an idea would go ahead? As well as killing demons in hell, even putting fear in both Lilith and Lucifer. He wouldn't be a Gary Stu, perhaps anger and self righteousness would be his biggest flaws, eventually thinking he should take the role of leading the Apocalypse ahead of Gabriel and Michael, until he's put into his rightful place by Jesus Christ. Definitely need to think some flaws.

While I would have him and Christ to have existed since "forever", he would have been born just recently: 2000, and turn 30 in 2030 to begin his things, much like how Christ began his ministry at age 30. I don't know, I think this could be improved.

And until then, he could be a true menace and a true antagonist to the series. Maybe he could even be a mentor to Adam and help Lute? I know, non canon. But I wanted your opinion on this concept.

 

[Mad Hunter]

Nah not necessarily, that’s just when it first showed up. The drama in Loo Loo Land was really only notable at the very beginning of the episode with Octavia’s fear of her father abandoning her being established and then the end when she called Stolas out. At that early point in the series, the audience was basically told that there’d be some drama sprinkled in, not an overwhelming amount that would lead to a gay love story. I know that I, at the very least, assumed that if we got any more episodes with drama in them, it would be mostly self-contained and resolved by the end like other comedy shows.

You have to consider the overall tone of the first half of season 1 compared to the end of it - where we see Blitzo curl up on a couch and break down crying - and then the hot mess known as season 2 that followed with more melodrama. Ozzie’s is where we got the firm message that the show was now putting comedy second and drama first, specifically to build Stolitz angst.

And the character development would be more subtle and even mostly comedic while still having a point.

In fact, there's no character development woth the direction of the show!

 

[GoodWinSon]

He could be a "serious" version of Adam, willing to finally be a "super" exterminator, who is meant to be a threatening figure. Think of an "antichrist" but not quite - he is a legitimate person who's a co-ruler (but rightfully accepts Christ's rule and merely manages to do other things like speaking to the populace until he won't appear, IDK?). Even being willing to commit murder if needed on unbelievers preceding the Apocalypse, if an idea would go ahead? As well as killing demons in hell, even putting fear in both Lilith and Lucifer. He wouldn't be a Gary Stu, perhaps anger and self righteousness would be his biggest flaws, eventually thinking he should take the role of leading the Apocalypse ahead of Gabriel and Michael, until he's put into his rightful place by Jesus Christ. Definitely need to think some flaws.

While I would have him and Christ to have existed since "forever", he would have been born just recently: 2000, and turn 30 in 2030 to begin his things, much like how Christ began his ministry at age 30. I don't know, I think this could be improved.

This sounds more Zoroastrian than anything. In Zoroastrianism evil is coequal with good while as we know in Christianity evil is subordinate to good, (both Old Testement and New Testement show demons asking permission from God).

I suppose given how HH already bastardized Christian theology, it wouldn't be too bad to go this route. Though I'd prefer a saint or angel operating in hell as a sort gunslinger character who deals out justice to the damned. Contrast that character with another saint who simply gives relief and offers help.

 

[LucasSomething]

Happened to come across this.
View attachment 6926896
Apparently Charlie was supposed to be ranked a bit higher but good lord, imagine having your main character nowhere near the top three. At least Valentino isn’t in there.

Glanced that person twitter and they seriously post NOTHING but hazbin hotel shitting so i'm reminded of how vivzie has a legit hatedom. At least i found some bad and good takes




The clip features
Carmila: Did you know angels could be harmed?
Vaggie: No!
(This is retarded cause vaggie was harmed by lute)

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

This sounds more Zoroastrian than anything. In Zoroastrianism evil is coequal with good while as we know in Christianity evil is subordinate to good, (both Old Testement and New Testement show demons asking permission from God).

I suppose given how HH already bastardized Christian theology, it wouldn't be too bad to go this route. Though I'd prefer a saint or angel operating in hell as a sort gunslinger character who deals out justice to the damned. Contrast that character with another saint who simply gives relief and offers help.

Huh, I didn't know that. What the fuck, dood, Vivzie and Rogers didn't give me instructions!!!! Nothin I could do!!! ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK!!

In all seriousness, I've been wanting to study Zoroastrian mythology at least for a curiosity. Some say it is the second or first oldest (outside the Hebrew Bible) monotheistic faith. I guess the "gist" of "good coequal with evil" is interesting enough, I appreciate. I don't know - I just came up with a guy who would be born in Israel circa 25 June 2000, would serve the armed forces or something and eventually would start acting as some "justice man" on Earth, killing gangs, drug pushers, cartels, mafias, terrorist groups - and even in Hell, getting a name known for himself for people to fear him until Apocalypse, he would do something rough. As the "Left Hand" was know to "wipe", it would be akin to "wiping the undesirable things from Earth"... if it makes sense? He would have military training, use firearms, booby traps, etc. But definitely would fail sometimes, as "the right time wouldn't have arrived for certain people to die".

But alas, I like your idea as well, of a saint or angel (Maybe Paul and Lucas?) getting known for their bravery and such. It's cool too.

 

[GoodWinSon]

But alas, I like your idea as well, of a saint or angel (Maybe Paul and Lucas?) getting known for their bravery and such. It's cool too.

I was thinking more along the lines of Theodosius or David the Builder. People forget I think that many Saints were rulers and generals.

 

[Mad Hunter]

Huh, I didn't know that. What the fuck, dood, Vivzie and Rogers didn't give me instructions!!!! Nothin I could do!!! ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK!!

In all seriousness, I've been wanting to study Zoroastrian mythology at least for a curiosity. Some say it is the second or first oldest (outside the Hebrew Bible) monotheistic faith. I guess the "gist" of "good coequal with evil" is interesting enough, I appreciate. I don't know - I just came up with a guy who would be born in Israel circa 25 June 2000, would serve the armed forces or something and eventually would start acting as some "justice man" on Earth, killing gangs, drug pushers, cartels, mafias, terrorist groups - and even in Hell, getting a name known for himself for people to fear him until Apocalypse, he would do something rough. As the "Left Hand" was know to "wipe", it would be akin to "wiping the undesirable things from Earth"... if it makes sense? He would have military training, use firearms, booby traps, etc. But definitely would fail sometimes, as "the right time wouldn't have arrived for certain people to die".

But alas, I like your idea as well, of a saint or angel (Maybe Paul and Lucas?) getting known for their bravery and such. It's cool too.

I'd prefer St. Simon Peter, too, despite that stupid white twink design. He had a foul temper and would be willing to cut off an ear if he had a cause. I won't be surprised if his smiling facade is hiding something more aggressive that would be willing to slash off more than just an ear. Well, since this is Viv and Chrischuds are bad, any of the choices we are vouching for are not gonna come into fruition.



No wait. Rather, look at St. Simon Peter. For this to be good writing, have him be a good role model with anger management. Lack of self-control leads to sin, right? St. Simon Peter lacked proper self-control before becoming a follower AND EVEN WHEN HE WAS ONE. He changed that. He could actually give legitimate advice based on his experiences with losing self-control and using anger for good (he cut off the servant's ear because he intended to protect Jesus, but he acknowledged that as wrong) to the people trying to change in the hotel. Hazbin Hotel had the potential to be an actually good inclusive Christian show for the lefties because muh feminism and LGBT rights. Just add a few straight central characters and you can solidify the fact that it wasn't gender that sent them to hell, but severely bad deeds in general. But then, AGAIN, Chrischuds are bad, so we can't have nice things.



IF Chrischuds are so bad, WHY DID VIV HAVE TO INCLUDE THEM IN HER SHOW? She just made things harder for herself. Again, it's a funny fictional heaven and hell. Why would she have to make it hard for herself? The concept of a positive afterlife and a negative afterlife are present in many cultures, so just make it a general "good place for good people and bad place for bad people" thing.



Serious question, though. I swear I saw someone say that there will be no actual religious figures in the show "based on a statement." Where was that statement?

 

[Welf Welf]

born in Israel circa 25 June 2000

That's a very specific date...

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

That's a very specific date...

Antipodal date to Jesus' Birth. 25 December, Year 1 BC. So 2000 years after Christ was born. Relax, nothing to do with me.
January, 6 months later = July;
all the way down to:
December, 6 months later = June. So, 25 December would be 25 June.

Serious question, though. I swear I saw someone say that there will be no actual religious figures in the show "based on a statement." Where was that statement?

Yeah, it's pretty sad...

I was thinking more along the lines of Theodosius or David the Builder. People forget I think that many Saints were rulers and generals.

Right, good idea.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Glanced that person twitter and they seriously post NOTHING but hazbin hotel shitting so i'm reminded of how vivzie has a legit hatedom. At least i found some bad and good takes

View attachment 6931224

The best part about this is that thanks to the leaks, we know that in Season 2 Lute becomes Punished Lute and gets a golden prosthetic to replace the arm she ripped off, not chopped off with an angelic weapon mind you, just tore herself free from through sheer determination...

So this means that angels can be maimed through conventional means.