Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Colonel Gaddafi]

I’m sorry, but this was just too goddamn funny. Imagine one, getting comfort from a goddamn rapist character, and two, freaking out on twitter when someone hacks up said rapist character.
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My (sandy) kingdom for a chance to ask this girl WHY.

I remember a while back when Alastor was the flavor of the month amongst fan girls, I asked one who was a self described ‘simp’ why she was drawn to that character specifically. She said that, outside of aesthetics, it was because 1.) He was asexual, or at least not promiscuous, so he wouldn’t cheat. 2.) He was a serial killer, ergo the alpha, and would protect her, be possessive, dominant. 3.) He has a tragic backstory (according to fans anyway), so you could be there for him during emotional stress.

I had a good chuckle at the fact that this is such a common trope in female oriented erotica, a la 50 Shades of Grey. The tragic, violent, but misunderstood man who’s going to love you to retarded levels. It made sense, on a surface level, when one doesn’t know anything about Cluster Bs. But now that I see these girls going crazy for Vox, who is a literal TV, and Valentino who’s an abusive rapist, I can’t even begin to process it.

Hybristophilia? Scelerophilia? It’s beyond me.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

What is there to do? I've yet to see an emotionally compelling lesbian couple in any form of media. It's always like they just kinda fuck, are together, and that's it.

You've yet to see an emotionally compelling homosexual relationship in media for the same reason you've yet to see an emotionally compelling pedophilic relationship in any form of media. Well, emotionally "compelling" for the reason the author intends anyway.

No matter how anyone tries to sugarcoat it, everytime you (and most normal people) see it on screen, you will always have the background issues nagging the back of your head: Its inherently a perversion, its unclean, and people who practice it are deviants.

Its like watching joker and being expected to cheer for the jon stewart standin, which makes it all the more hillarious that some people actually were.

Furthermore, and this is the important bit, because these movies, shows, books, comics etc, like to pretend the unsavoury elements don't exist, but this you can't hide no mater how hard you try:

It ontologically lacks the capacity bear fruit. This means that its always just an immature heidonistic fling focused around carnal pleasure instead of a relationship focused around creating and nurturing something new, i.e. offspring.

"True love" is seen as noble and admirable, because it carries the implication of this selfless element into it, its not just about you getting your dick/pussy wet, but about the kids you'll eventually transfer this love into and make it about something other than yourself, which is what gives all love stories their weight and fuzzyness.

Homosexual relationships lack this selfless element, they are entirely selfish carnal contracts with no higher purpose other than heidonism, which means they lack any of the emotional weight that comes with standard love stories.

And if you think I'm wrong, take your favourite love story with a happy ending and imagine that after the credits the characters spent the next 70 years drinking and doing drugs, bragging on tiktok about being "DINKs" until they die childless and everyone forgets about them. Makes the whole thing seem pretty pointless doesn't it?

 

[LucasSomething]

What is there to do? I've yet to see an emotionally compelling lesbian couple in any form of media. It's always like they just kinda fuck, are together, and that's it.

The problem is that western writers, usually straight man/women, can only write like, 3 types of lesbian couples.

1-Starting lesbian couple whose 90% personality is making it clear they're lesbians. (ex Ruby and saphire from SU, those 2 from guardian spice)

2-Girl acts polite once and the other girl falls in love with her, leading to funny hijinks and a lot of blushing (ex Owl house)

3-The writer is obcessed with Enemies to Lovers so the two girls fucking hate each other we're almost in the finale so the villain girl gets redeemed/forgiven out of nowhere and we pretend this relationship was never toxic. (ex She-ra)

Bonus round: These girls were never lesbians until the ship got too popular thanks to their chemistry, so the writers force it into canon, ironically ruining their chemistry completely (Yang and Blake from rwby)

Vaggie is technically number 1 and 2, and if you remove the fact she's ex-terminator (that some thing was added post pilot) she's just Charlie's pet gf. There is also the matter that writers are too afraid of being called homophobic so lesbian ships have to be perfectly sacharine and only allowed to have a token misunderstanding angst moment, but at least vivzie is a fujo so she makes all the faggots rape each other.

You know all those tumblr relationship dynamics memes? Lesbian couples cant even get that, the most you get is the protagonist working and the girlfriend saying "i love and support you babe uwu" in the background. There is a reason people say Lumity got "boring" after it became canon, like wtf is amity gonna do now lol she has nothing to do with the main plot.

 

[Chilson]

My (sandy) kingdom for a chance to ask this girl WHY.

I remember a while back when Alastor was the flavor of the month amongst fan girls, I asked one who was a self described ‘simp’ why she was drawn to that character specifically. She said that, outside of aesthetics, it was because 1.) He was asexual, or at least not promiscuous, so he wouldn’t cheat. 2.) He was a serial killer, ergo the alpha, and would protect her, be possessive, dominant. 3.) He has a tragic backstory (according to fans anyway), so you could be there for him during emotional stress.

I had a good chuckle at the fact that this is such a common trope in female oriented erotica, a la 50 Shades of Grey. The tragic, violent, but misunderstood man who’s going to love you to retarded levels. It made sense, on a surface level, when one doesn’t know anything about Cluster Bs. But now that I see these girls going crazy for Vox, who is a literal TV, and Valentino who’s an abusive rapist, I can’t even begin to process it.

Hybristophilia? Scelerophilia? It’s beyond me.

Women are emotionally driven idiots who want all the excitement life can bring but don't think about, or want to deal with, any of the consequences of said excitement. Not that I really blame them, society shelters and protects women so thoroughly that they genuinely believe they have it worse than men because they rarely ever get to see or hear about how bad men have it, usually because they take on all the shit that should have rightfully fallen onto women.

So a woman sees a "sexy" serial killer, rapist, etc. etc. they are not really even considering all the bad shit that will likely happen to them because its so out of their scope of experience that it would be like a toddler trying to comprehend college level chemistry.

Its really not hard to figure out my dude.

The problem is that western writers, usually straight man/women, can only write like, 3 types of lesbian couples.

1-Starting lesbian couple whose 90% personality is making it clear they're lesbians. (ex Ruby and saphire from SU, those 2 from guardian spice)

2-Girl acts polite once and the other girl falls in love with her, leading to funny hijinks and a lot of blushing (ex Owl house)

3-The writer is obcessed with Enemies to Lovers so the two girls fucking hate each other we're almost in the finale so the villain girl gets redeemed/forgiven out of nowhere and we pretend this relationship was never toxic. (ex She-ra)

Bonus round: These girls were never lesbians until the ship got too popular thanks to their chemistry, so the writers force it into canon, ironically ruining their chemistry completely (Yang and Blake from rwby)

Vaggie is technically number 1 and 2, and if you remove the fact she's ex-terminator (that some thing was added post pilot) she's just Charlie's pet gf. There is also the matter that writers are too afraid of being called homophobic so lesbian ships have to be perfectly sacharine and only allowed to have a token misunderstanding angst moment, but at least vivzie is a fujo so she makes all the faggots rape each other.

You know all those tumblr relationship dynamics memes? Lesbian couples cant even get that, the most you get is the protagonist working and the girlfriend saying "i love and support you babe uwu" in the background. There is a reason people say Lumity got "boring" after it became canon, like wtf is amity gonna do now lol she has nothing to do with the main plot.

Its actually 1, 2, 3 and the bonus.

3 Because Vaggie was an angel and therefore a mortal enemy to Charlie, admittedly it is the weakest of the bunch but I will count it.

Bonus: They were clearly just friends in the pilot and then got catapulted to Lesbian lovers in the show proper because Viv couldn't help pandering to the Tumblr crowd who demanded they munch rugs.

I just think its incredible Viv managed to cobble together all the laziest frameworks with Lesbian couples into one awful couple.

 

[Seventh Star]

You've yet to see an emotionally compelling homosexual relationship in media for the same reason you've yet to see an emotionally compelling pedophilic relationship in any form of media. Well, emotionally "compelling" for the reason the author intends anyway.

I dunno, I can see some gay story of love working, but lesbians? It'll never work out. Guys just find it hot, and girls are for some reason uninterested in putting the same work for other women, or prefer fujoshit like Vivzie anyways. It's hard to explain but there's something inherently missing in lesbians for emotional beats, while using guys is more compelling, mostly when one of them is girly anyways.

Although I'll admit I'm a half faggot myself so take it with a grain of salt.

You know all those tumblr relationship dynamics memes? Lesbian couples cant even get that, the most you get is the protagonist working and the girlfriend saying "i love and support you babe uwu" in the background. There is a reason people say Lumity got "boring" after it became canon, like wtf is amity gonna do now lol she has nothing to do with the main plot.

That too. Very rarely you see any interesting dynamic between lesbians, they're both just the girls in the relationship. Like Tracer and her complementary dyke.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Bonus round: These girls were never lesbians until the ship got too popular thanks to their chemistry, so the writers force it into canon, ironically ruining their chemistry completely (Yang and Blake from rwby)

I was certain you would mention Korra and Asami for No3 + Bonus, because it follows to a T.

Asami was dating Mako, Korra dated Bolin just to get close to Mako and then cheated on Asami with him, Asami and Mako broke up after that and then Korra started shamelessly dating him.

Then when korra got brain damage and amnesia Asami and Mako started dating again behind Korra's back just to spite her memory.

Somehow the writers thought these two women would be attracted at one another by the end instead of wanting to kill one another and made them a couple in the finale.

 

[Colonel Gaddafi]

Women are emotionally driven idiots who want all the excitement life can bring but don't think about, or want to deal with, any of the consequences of said excitement. Not that I really blame them, society shelters and protects women so thoroughly that they genuinely believe they have it worse than men because they rarely ever get to see or hear about how bad men have it, usually because they take on all the shit that should have rightfully fallen onto women.

No one here is interested in this weird incel bullshit. I’ve dealt with enough troonery to know that the only men who genuinely believe this have never left their coom cave.

 

[Chilson]

No one here is interested in this weird incel bullshit. I’ve dealt with enough troonery to know that the only men who genuinely believe this have never left their coom cave.

Nigga, you wanted an explanation and I gave you one. Don't cry when you ask how milk is made and someone tells you.

I also should have clarified it was terminally online women and tumblrites (I know same thing), not all women are like that.

 

[starborn427614]

I was certain you would mention Korra and Asami for No3 + Bonus, because it follows to a T.

Asami was dating Mako, Korra dated Bolin just to get close to Mako and then cheated on Asami with him, Asami and Mako broke up after that and then Korra started shamelessly dating him.

Then when korra got brain damage and amnesia Asami and Mako started dating again behind Korra's back just to spite her memory.

Somehow the writers thought these two women would be attracted at one another by the end instead of wanting to kill one another and made them a couple in the finale.

Was Korra actually dating Bolin? I remember them going on a friend date but that's about it.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Was Korra actually dating Bolin? I remember them going on a friend date but that's about it.

Yes. She was dating him to get close to Mako. The entire thing became a meme.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/crying-bolin-kissing-korra

 

[Colonel Gaddafi]

Nigga, you wanted an explanation and I gave you one. Don't cry when you ask how milk is made and someone tells you.

You didn’t. I’m well aware as to why someone would want a partner like Alastor. But not one that is barely anthromophic, or why one would project ‘comfort’ on to a character that is literally the opposite. There’s some mental gymnastics there that go beyond ‘irresponsible women dumb’.

I also should have clarified it was terminally online women and tumblrites (I know same thing), not all women are like that.

That negates everything you just said, but yes. I’m not going to project terminally online woman behavior onto all women no more so than I would like them to project terminally online male behavior on me. There’s a part of the female demographic that’s batshit, but we don’t have much room to talk when a ever growing population of men want to chop off their cock and cry for gibs.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

ever growing population of men want to chop off their cock and cry for gibs.

The difference is you can shit on those men without being called an incel.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Yes. She was dating him to get close to Mako. The entire thing became a meme.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/crying-bolin-kissing-korra

Oh yeah. That was basically the end of all things.

 

[Castoreum]

Yes. She was dating him to get close to Mako. The entire thing became a meme.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/crying-bolin-kissing-korra

I rember watching this episode when it first aired (before Korra was dumped on streaming services).

Spoiler: Spoiler'd for off-topic Korra sperging

The memes were everywhere on /co/ (this was also around the time stand-up comedian Amon was a thing on the board).

Bolin asked her out on a dinner date, and Korra didn't realize it was a DATE. IIRC she didn't ask if it was just "as friends" or anything, she just said yes. I can't believe it was played off for laughs.

I never got past season 1 of TLOK, but Korra was so fucking retarded at every turn that for the whole season I thought the audience was supposed to hate her. It actually made the season pretty interesting until the finale when I realized my impression was completely wrong.

 

[Colonel Gaddafi]

The difference is you can shit on those men without being called an incel.

Shitting on those men causes our Dear Leader much grief Oilspill…Abd you’d be surprised, considering the wokies consider them women…but I digress, we’re off topic.

 

[ReceiveAndAsk]

Be misogynistic, but in a cool sexy way that gets you laid, not in a creepy incel way.

 

[LucasSomething]

I was certain you would mention Korra and Asami for No3 + Bonus, because it follows to a T.

Asami was dating Mako, Korra dated Bolin just to get close to Mako and then cheated on Asami with him, Asami and Mako broke up after that and then Korra started shamelessly dating him.

Then when korra got brain damage and amnesia Asami and Mako started dating again behind Korra's back just to spite her memory.

Somehow the writers thought these two women would be attracted at one another by the end instead of wanting to kill one another and made them a couple in the finale.

I actually did write korra but then deleted cause i dont think Korra and Asami were ever played as this "soul enemies", at least not to the extent she-ra did with catra. As far as anyone was concerned. it was all a shitty love triangle for the sake of shallow drama and Korra and asami barely knew each other.

But then writers forced it (i dont think the ship was super popular but existed), which made their relationship super toxic in hindsight. If korra, mako and asami genders would be reversed, this whole thing would be super fucked.

Either way Hazbin feels like a special kind of forced/shallow because Vivzie loves to fetishize yaoi and faggots raping each other so Charlie and Vaggie feel like the "token healthy lgbt couple". At best it exists so Vivzie can brag about being an lgbt ally while also making sure the female protagonist dont get in the way of her yaoi boys.

 

[Colonel Gaddafi]

Be misogynistic, but in a cool sexy way that gets you laid, not in a creepy incel way.

The irony is that none of the characters in Hazbin are even inherently misogynistic, Alastor is a misandrist and Valentino is abusive towards his gay lover. That being said the charming womanizer gets further than the sour grapes incel. They both hate women, one just figured out how to use it to his advantage, unfortunately.

 

[AnOminous]

It reminds me of Juicero, the desire to combine things that are ok on their own, like making juice, a juicer, and the Internet, but with their powers combined they create something retarded.

Should have kept it simple and unique. "A demon princess tries to redeem sinners." "Imp assassins from Hell run a human killing business."

Either of them are simple concepts that could be executed any number of ways and be unique.

Now it's "gay guys do gay things." There's no shortage of that on this market.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I think Viv is just terrible at writing romantic relationships, whether they be hetero or homo. Moxxie and Millie was cute and wholesome at first, but became boring real quick, mostly due to the fact that Millie is a nothing character. We can see why Moxxie loves Millie and wants to be with her, but we don't know why or what Millie loves about Moxxie. Same goes for Ozzie and Fizz, who started out as an interesting dynamic, but immediately by they're next appearance became sanitized. Ozzie's character now solely relys on Fizz, and Fizz was woobified.

Same goes for her building up relationships. Stolas and Blitzø could have worked if there was proper buildup to them falling for one another. But that requires effort and skill, so it's better to gaslight the audience that they have always loved each other, they're just terrible at communicating it, and this relationship wasn't solely built on transactional fucking. Angel Dust and Husk are most likely going to end up together, even though there's no logical reason why they should. No chemistry beforehand, with Husk being especially annoyed with Angel Dust, only to have one scene where they go out of character to randomly start caring about each other.

So, could Charlie and Vaggie work as a lesbian relationship? I'd say yes. But only if Vaggie became her own character, we get good reasons for why they would love each other, interactions between them that builds on their relationship dynamic, and a competent director that knows what the fuck they are doing.