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- Oct 11, 2014
Dude....I loved Snatch too. It's my fave British Gangster movie of all time but tying it to fucking Hazbin Hotel, even as a contrast is the most autistic thing i've read this week, and it's been a busy week.
Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread
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- Joined
- Sep 28, 2013
Sure, why not.
Serious answer: I guess it's that she assumed Lucifer didn't care that much about her or her goals. He was ecstatic when she invited him over, but at the same time he's apparently a shut-in who spends all his time making rubber ducks, so I guess the lack of communication on his end aside from the times he needed a favor (like in episode 1) made her feel neglected. We don't know when exactly or why Lucifer and Lilith separated, so it's hard to say how long Charlie had that insecurity.
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- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
Honestly Viv is capable of making decent or good musical numbers, its just that she falls flat when it comes to comedy (aside from the occasional joke) and storytelling.
Viv would really benefit from having someone tard wrangle her, which shows with the first few episodes of Helluva Boss season 1 showing that she can actually make something good if someone reigns her in.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
I just don't really see it. It feels to me like the story is more about Charlie being unable to realize her dad actually cares about her. I don't dislike Alastor, but in the Hell's Greatest Dad song he does come off as a bit of a Discord tranny janny groomer trying to whisper in Charlie's ear that she should ditch her family despite Lucifer being there to help her.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2024
Being reminded of this hurts a lot. Could not tell you how MATI I was when Fizz forgave him so easily despite being left without any limbs and barely any horns left because of the accident. But hey, he got to be with gay rooster demon, so I guess all's forgiven, eh?
Blitzo got away with killing his mother AND leaving his friend disabled because he was too envious of him. That was something that should've been explored a lot more. Have Fizzarolli not forgive him at all, let him face the consequences as it slowly aches him. Accident or not, he caused the (hypothesized) death of his mother and the disfigurement of his friend. That's something that should've scarred him for life. Something that shouldn't be easily forgiven on.
But no, things are settled with some tears and a hug. Too distracted with "Kaiju Penis" to blast your friend for leaving you as a quadriplegic amputee.
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- Joined
- Apr 2, 2023
I've never seen Bojack Horseman, but I've heard that there was an episode that ended with the protagonist not being forgiven for being a burnout jackass and fucking up royally. The clip might've been posted in this very thread and that's where I'm remembering it from. But what I'm getting at is it isn't some kind of modern show incompetence, it's just Viv being lazy.
Cyber Bowling
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2017
Slightly late to the party, but I think a lot of it comes down to instant gratification. And, if we're being a little more cynical, from a creative standpoint, there's also the laziness angle. I should also clarify, in terms of "lore" I mean the word of god style information about the show, which I think is what we're all talking about.
Anyway, with theories/lore, you don't really have to do any buildup or explanation, you just get the immediate end result. It's typically something that would be the climax of an arc, or at the very least, a really cool moment. Lore is pretty similar, except it's more set in stone. Using a Hazbin example, I'd say Charlie and Lucifer having issues is really more of a lore thing. Viv alludes to them having had issues for a very long time and has multiple characters address this, but then when it comes time to actually show it...we don't really ever get any examples and just sort of take it as fact. I'm sure there are a lot of theories as to why, and Viv will probably cherry pick some of them to be true.
On paper, this is an interesting idea, but...the interest comes from seeing *how* their issues develop. But showing how something happens takes time and effort and creative writing, so it's way easier for Viv to just create lore that says they have issues.
It basically creates an element of "tell, don't show". It appeals to viewers that don't really care about substance and are just watching/reading something for very specific reasons. With Hazbin, I think a lot of the draw is seeing damaged gay characters being gay, or characters the audience crushes on/admires doing "badass" things. Theories and lore jump right to those moments, but then there's really nowhere to go and instead of having a satisfying climax, you're just left with a story beat that had minimal build up and doesn't feel earned or meaningful. Well, if you're an average viewer at least, if you're the type of person to get deep into a fandom for some of the above mentioned reasons, you're basically being spoonfed exactly what you want, with the added benefit of being able to pat yourself on the back that your theory was correct.
A more proper way of doing lore is exploring some of the ideas people have posted about here, where there's a bunch of thought put into what heaven/hell could be/how they'd function and why the characters are the way they are. It's why there's been a fair amount of suggestions for showing the characters backstories so we understand what sins they actually committed, then seeing their struggles in hell to actually change and overcome those issues to achieve redemption.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2013
That's basically what I'm saying though, hence 'assumed.' Charlie thought Lucifer didn't really care because of how rarely he would reach out to her when he's in fact an awkward but loving father whose depression got in the way of things. Now, if we were going off the pilot, which instead made Lucifer out to be the more distant parent who was implied to outright consider Charlie a failure, her having daddy issues would make more sense.
I don't dislike Alastor either but his characterization isn't the best. I would assume they'll reveal the reason later on, but as now, his hatred of Lucifer feels odd. Unless the logic is supposed to be that he dislikes those in higher power than him, which is also pretty dumb and heightens his Gary Stu attributes.
LucasSomething
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
On the "fun facts" they revealed pre-release, one said Vivzie's favourite character is Alastor first and Lucifer second, and that makes sense since they're her perfectly engineered "tumblr sexy man". Vivzie probably wanted them to be "rivals" regardless of logic so she'll make up a reason later.
There is also some irony that the dad song was obviously intended to kill Charlastor shippers but singlehandedly sailed the Lucifer x Alastor into unironic massive popularity. It's already top 4 (argueably 2) on Ao3 and easily second largest ship after angelhusk.
Roger Dennis
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2022
Okay, so now Alastor has his own Wikipedia page as well.
He isn’t a great villain. He’s just an edgy OC. Nothing about Alastor or Charlie is significant enough to warrant having their own Wikipedia articles.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
Its honestly weird when fictional characters get wikipedia articles unless they have like some significant impact on pop culture or launched some bigger discussion to them. Charlie or Alastor do not have that.
Well the sexy man works given sexypedia (there's more than I show)
LucasSomething
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
Sexypedia has normalized the term so normies thinks any handsome guy in a suit is a "tumblr sexy man" nowadays, when it's (was) more about the sheer cultural impact that character has on tumblr specifically, but also Ao3 reader ship fics and deviantart OCs.
I know a lot of people call Alastor and Lucifer "sexyman bait" but another factoid said vivzie made alastor back in 2008. They're so good at being sexyman cause Vivzie lived through tumblr/deviantart culture herself. They're literally her edgy husbando OCs she made back in school.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
I think it was only Alastor, Angel Dust, and Charlie Viv made before Hazbin Hotel was an idea. Though Alastor was much edgier back then.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2024
Speaking of AO3, I wonder if we could get something out of looking at the stories there. Knowing this fanbase, I know there are some genuinely unhinged or outright abbhorent stories laying over there. But let's be honest, that's a given for any fandom, so we ain't really getting anything interesting out of that.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2020
My own speculation on that kind of story's appeal would probably be the same reason why Kingdom Hearts was/is so big in online circles. There's some kind of appeal (possible autism?) in people seeing all they're favorite characters meeting up and getting into some big escapade. Beyond crossovers themselves, I've noticed a few people (mostly on 4chan, so grains of salt on standby) who have watched Hazbin and Helluva get fixated on specific elements of those shows (characters, locations, concepts, etc.), to the extent where they come up with their own concepts that they either discuss or roleplay into the original works. Some of them did it for wish-fulfilment, creative writing practice, sexual gratification, or something else entirely. That's just my own speculation of it, of course. After all, if Verbalace can spend 50K on a cocktease music video with Hazbin's own main character, then there must be many other random people with that same level of devotion to create their own OC junk for fun with a significantly-lower cost.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2020
Nope, Vaggie, Mimzy and Husk were there too.
Have to admit, this is a much more interesting and funny dynamic. But lesbian coomers gotta be lesbian coomers I suppose.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
You know if Viv had to say Alastor was black in anyway, she should've just made him jamaican if these drawings are anything to go by.
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- Dec 28, 2014
And the VA is trans. It's not like it was totally out of left field.
Grumpy Pickle Rick
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2020
I have never understood how characters like Alastor and Lucifer are considered sexy.
They’re a bunch of ugly twinks.
I’m sorry but I have never understood this obsession with Twinks in this modern age.
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- Joined
- Apr 6, 2024
Me neither but it's the common standard for them Tumblr types. If they have a suit, the body of a twig, the shoulders of a football player and the grin of a devious villain that probably goes by the name "Dr Giggletouch", then they'll eat it up. Of course, the same couldn't be said on Twitter and YouTube, as many people (reasonably) bashed on the designs and how samey they all were. Some bashed because they were able to without scrutiny and others bashed because they wish for Vivzie to do more with her character designs that isn't just a base fill of things so you can know its a Vivziepop character.
Others did redesigns, but I hate most of them because despite she likes her broad shoulder men with the "Dr Giggletouch" smile, I barely saw any redesigns that hit with me. Maybe it's the bias? But what's there to be biased? I just personally think despite the designs being samey, they have their appeal in a way. All I ask is to have them gain a bit of weight, please.
And to bring up the background characters, they ironically had more diversity to their body type than the literal main cast. I remember someone saying the artists who work with the background characters are professional character designers, and if that's true, then props to them. The pilot of Hazbin Hotel showed that diversity at its best and I'm like, "how comes there are more varied designs for background characters than the main ones who are all just some form of skinny?".
You don't see much of them in the official show (which sucks because the pilot showed how PACKED hell was [to an extent] because of the large abundance of characters you saw left and right compared to the official show, where you just thought hell was no different from an average small town population), but I'm glad they're still continuing that tradition of drawing background/one-time characters that had a bigger appealing design to them than most of the main cast by a whole mile.
But I will always say the pilot floors in terms of showcasing the diversity of hell and its inhabitants better than the official one.
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