Highguard - Concord 2.0?

[Day of the Cope]

 

[moocow]

Just a random little slice-of-life illustration why "Secure Boot" is horseshit and no fucking game is worth entertaining its nonsense.

I ordered a used HP EliteDesk 705 G4 DM (little bitty PC box w/a decent AMD GPU suitable for hardware video encoding, for my various sundry purposes) to join a fleet of others I've been slowly accumulating over the past few months. $70 for a 4-core Ryzen 5 w/on-silicon Radeon, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD. Tiny form factor.

Unlike the other three I already have, this one came "locked down" from the seller and Windows 11 pre-installed. It wouldn't boot a Ventoy USB flash drive (it's a multi-boot loader thingy -- you install it on a flash drive, stuff a bunch of ISOs on it, and it gives you a handy boot menu to let you pick which ISO to use from the pile you've added), claiming it wasn't "authorized." Wouldn't boot the Debian USB/ISO either. BIOS admin password was set (and not documented either). So!

1. Disconnect power
2. Pop the hood
3. Pull the CMOS battery
4. Hold a CMOS reset button for 5-10 seconds to drain any lingering juice
5. Move a motherboard jumper (normally shorting two pins; move it to remove the short temporarily) to force-clear BIOS admin password on next powerup
6. Reconnect power
7. Power on
8. Endure post-reset lecture from BIOS
9. Endure "intrusion detection alert" lecture from BIOS
10. Disable Secure Boot
11. Disable "security management console"
12. Reboot
13. Enter four-digit code (provided on console) to confirm disabling Secure Boot
14. Enter four-digit code (provided on console) to confirm disabling security management console
15. Attempt to boot from USB device, get lecture about unregistered "key"
16. Install the key (Ventoy provides it, on-disk, lol) even though it won't be needed after this
17. Install Debian 13
18. Power off
19. Replace jumper
20. Put the case back together
21. Boot into Debian and proceed as normal

This process took an hour. Installing Debian 13 took literally 6 minutes (I timed it). Defanging the horseshit "you don't really own me, bitch" attitude the fucker brought with it from its previous owner took the other 54 minutes. It is my computer. It will obey my commands and no others.

Nothing about Secure Boot is about securing your system or protecting yourself. None of what the machine did prior to its deactivation served me or my needs. Instead, it tried to prevent me from using my equipment as I want to. No fucking video game is worth enabling that garbage. Does any of the above process or inconvenience sound like something that's necessary to "prevent cheating"?

The big lie with Secure Boot is that your system is "safe" if some third-party with industry muscle can "vouch" that you're running an "officially-sanctioned" OS installation. The trouble is, a fully "validated" and "attested" installation of Windows 11 is still vulnerable as fuck because it's Windows -- famously insecure by default. "Oh that's cute, you've promised me via BIOS verification that your kernel image is official. Neat. So all the known/published CVEs affecting that official kernel are guaranteed to affect this fucking machine too? Great. Thanks for the reassurance."

All Secure Boot actually does is lock down a PC to run only Windows and make it harder (slightly) to run anything else on it. It was designed to make sure the streamlined 6-minute Debian installation I performed on this PC actually took an hour instead.

I still won. There's no Windows on that machine anymore, and it's running my dumb shit on it instead. I'm confident it's running the software I want it to be running, because I put it there myself. No hand-holding required, and it's a far cry more secure than Windows will ever be.

Also, fuck you HP. Quit crippling good hardware with this Microsoft-spoonfed bullshit.

 

[The Ugly One]

Nothing about Secure Boot is about securing your system or protecting yourself.

You just described yourself how Secure Boot protects you. You could not have done any of that stuff remotely. You needed physical access to the machine to change boot-level software components. It doesn't protect your hardware vendor against you, though.

The trouble is, a fully "validated" and "attested" installation of Windows 11 is still vulnerable as fuck because it's Windows -- famously insecure by default.

You're talking about different attack surfaces, and you just broadened your low-level attack surface because you think your high-level surface has you covered.

So all the known/published CVEs affecting that official kernel are guaranteed to affect this fucking machine too? Great. Thanks for the reassurance."

Linux CVEs: 22K
Windows CVEs: 17K
Debian CVEs: 11K
Windows 11 CVEs: 7K

All Secure Boot actually does is lock down a PC to run only Windows and make it harder (slightly) to run anything else on it.

Most Linux distros have supported Secure Boot for about 10 years now. I don't want malware compromising my Linux kernel any more than I want it compromising my Windows installation.

I still won. There's no Windows on that machine anymore, and it's running my dumb shit on it instead. I'm confident it's running the software I want it to be running, because I put it there myself.

Since you disabled Secure Boot, it could be running software an attacker put there by compromising your system at the kernel level (e.g. rootkit + compromised bootloader), and you would have no way to know.

 

[3-2-1836]

How does the game's thread have more posts in it than actual players in the game?

 

[Day of the Cope]

Most Linux distros have supported Secure Boot for about 10 years now.

Sure, but not all of them have it working out of the box and involve extra steps that can cause problems during kernel updates. Of the ones that do work out of the box, they have to use shim which is its own can of worms that is far outside the point of this thread.

 

[moocow]

Holy fuck we've got one on the kool-aid. I haven't met a live FUD dispenser in years!

You just described yourself how Secure Boot protects you. You could not have done any of that stuff remotely. You needed physical access to the machine to change boot-level software components. It doesn't protect your hardware vendor against you, though.

It didn't "protect" me. It inconvenienced me. It got in the way of running the software on the unit that I wanted to run on it. I own it. I'm in physical control of it. It obeys me, not the other way 'round.

You're talking about different attack surfaces, and you just broadened your low-level attack surface because you think your high-level surface has you covered.

You mean the "low-level" attack surface that was so "secure" it just offered to load and accept the key stored on the device it was refusing to boot because it didn't recognize the key by default? Boy I'm in real trouble if that's my low-level door lock.

Linux CVEs: 22K
Windows CVEs: 17K
Debian CVEs: 11K
Windows 11 CVEs: 7K

And every one of them affects every system whether "Secure Boot"-encumbered or not. Whoops. And you're not really going to argue Windows is more secure than Linux, are you? Because I don't have the energy for that kind of laughter tonight.

Most Linux distros have supported Secure Boot for about 10 years now. I don't want malware compromising my Linux kernel any more than I want it compromising my Windows installation.

Then don't install malware or allow unauthorized persons to use your equipment. Secure boot prevents neither of these. It also does nothing to stop malware that doesn't touch the kernel.

Since you disabled Secure Boot, it could be running software an attacker put there by compromising your system at the kernel level (e.g. rootkit + compromised bootloader), and you would have no way to know.

The Debian 13 netinst image (as of this writing) is not infected with any known malware or other rootkit. Nice try though.

This reminds me of when any time you booted a Windows Server 2002 installation CD on an internet-connected system to install a server, it was literally infected with a rootkit before the installation was finished. But nah, Windows is super-secure and I'm sure Secure Boot would have totally protected against that. Oh wait. No it wouldn't. It was an official image running an official kernel. That slime would have oozed straight through anyway.

Fuck literally any "security measure" endorsed by Microsoft and foisted onto hardware vendors. Fuck it deep and hard, and fuck every asshole who gobbles their cocks for trying to foist it on us.

Oh, and also, "protects games from cheaters" how, again?

 

[The Ugly One]

Sure, but not all of them have it working out of the box

The ones that 90% of enterprises use do. The niche distros that serve no purpose other than enable the user to brag about using Linux don't. Any CISO who approves Arch should be fired.

and involve extra steps that can cause problems during kernel updates. Of the ones that do work out of the box, they have to use shim which is its own can of worms that is far outside the point of this thread.

Yes, securing your computer involves extra steps compared to just leaving your front door open.

It didn't "protect" me. It inconvenienced me.

You literally described how it was impossible to modify boot-level binaries without being able to physically manipulate your machine, something no malware can do.

And you're not really going to argue Windows is more secure than Linux, are you? Because I don't have the energy for that kind of laughter tonight.

You brought up CVEs, not me.

Then don't install malware

Ah yes. The foolproof way of securing a system.

And you're not really going to argue Windows is more secure than Linux, are you? Because I don't have the energy for that kind of laughter tonight.

Given that you don't know what Secure Boot does and think "just don't install malware bro" is foolproof security, I don't think you're even capable of having this argument.

Fuck literally any "security measure" endorsed by Microsoft and foisted onto hardware vendors.

Secure Boot is also on Apple silicon and Power, which don't support Windows. Cybersecurity isn't a Microsoft conspiracy to stop you from running some crumbly hobbyist distro on your $300 micro PC.

 

[Day of the Cope]

Yes, securing your computer involves extra steps compared to just leaving your front door open.

Or just don't be a retard?

 

[The Ugly One]

Or just don't be a retard?

True. Why even bother with security since "don't make mistakes" is so effective?

 

[moocow]

Secure Boot is also on Apple silicon and Power, which don't support Windows. Cybersecurity isn't a Microsoft conspiracy to stop you from running some crumbly hobbyist distro on your $300 micro PC.

Secure Boot was literally developed by Microsoft, Intel and AMD via the UEFI Forum (and preceding that, the Intel Boot Initiative), you disingenuous faggot. One of its first major goals was to make it harder for Linux to boot on "secure" hardware and it was broadly criticized for that from the outset. The EU only chose not to fine Microsoft for antitrust violations because of their eventual promise to "allow" users to disable the feature (how "gracious" of them, right?), the neutered feds considered (but abandoned -- thanks Obama) further antitrust action, and plenty of other vendors raised complaints too.

Suck Microsoft's cock all you like. Secure Boot stays off my systems.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

How does the game's thread have more posts in it than actual players in the game?
View attachment 8612067

Lets do a check on the population of fan servers of a 20 year old MMO that got shut down 10 years ago and had the source code leaked.

Oh...that's gotta hurt.

 

[moocow]

Lets do a check on the population of fan servers of a 20 year old MMO that got shut down 10 years ago and had the source code leaked.

View attachment 8612663

Oh...that's gotta hurt.

lol that's just fucking amazing.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

lol that's just fucking amazing.

That is just a snapshot of current players the 7 day highs are

1203
684

for those two servers.

 

[Counterfeit Obol]

Lets do a check on the population of fan servers of a 20 year old MMO that got shut down 10 years ago and had the source code leaked.

Curious. What game is this?

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Curious. What game is this?

City of Heroes.

 

[Oliver Onions]

Highguard? More lime Highfall

More like Byeguard, cause this shit isn't gonna exist a month from now.

 

[moocow]

More like Byeguard, cause this shit isn't gonna exist a month from now.

Wonder how long it's going to take them to actually kill the fucking thing...

 

[Oliver Onions]

Wonder how long it's going to take them to actually kill the fucking thing...

Well now they're officially under 1k peak players it surely can't hang on much longer.

I would love to know if anyone has spent money on any of the shitty cosmetics.

 

[moocow]

Well now they're officially under 1k peak players it surely can't hang on much longer.

Do those dumb "degenerates will gamble on anything" gambling websites take wagers on shit like this? "Polymarket" or something?

 

[Day of the Cope]

I posted this in another thread, but figured I'd post it here, too.

This has to be one of the worst fucking attempts at shilling this game I've ever seen. Ignores all the technical issues and hypes up all the "potential". This comment really sums up how I feel about all this: