How autistic do you have to be to think that socialism works? - Including marxism, communism etc

[Glowie]

I grew up in former satellite states in Eastern bloc. Every single nation went to shit, corruption was rife, people starved in the streets. Only people in upper classes got anything ever. Party was your infallible king and god. Nothing was free, you were a literal pod person in a concrete ghetto.
I could write in detail how dysfunctional it was, but I'm sure everyone gets the picture by now.

Every furfag, troon or combination of two thinks that socialism is some cure all and tolerates capitalist degenerates, troons, gays, lesbos or furfags in the past public much less in the party rank. Fuck even working gopniks would curbstomp you for being a degenerate.

That being said how much autistic denial does it take to think that any form of Marxist bullshit is viable and works in practice and allows freedoms to degenerates?

 

[zero-who]

Free healthcare, free housing, free education, free child care, free prisons. All of these are good things to have in a decent country. Yet, the yanks are convinced, by the same corporations and media that they oft slag-off, as being so amazingly good and amazing, that to not have them would be un-American.

None of them are free. If you want those things, you are either going to have to reallocate funds from other government services or tax your citizens more. Knowing that government spending has a lovely habit of increasing over time rather than decreasing - guess which one they would do?

Let's say I make $31,960 a year in the state of California (the median income in the most populous state), and I am also a resident of California. My monthly income would be around $2,663, and using this calculator:

• 9.96% of my monthly paycheck ($265) goes to federal income tax.
• 1.61% of my monthly paycheck ($43) goes to state income tax.
• 6.20% of my monthly paycheck ($165) goes to Social Security.
• 1.45% of my monthly paycheck ($39) goes to Medicare.
• 1.00% of my monthly paycheck ($27) goes to state disability insurance tax.

I now have $2,125 remaining per month, or $25,500 a year. Taxes have taken out around 20% of my paycheck. Now let's look at what else I need to cover. I probably can't afford a house with this level of income, so we'll say I'm a rentfag. This website is telling me that the average rent in California is $1,488 (lol). I have just $1,175 remaining.

Let's assume I own a car to go to my job, where I make the rest of my measly paycheck. The most common car in the state of California (contrary to what someone who's watched Drive (2011) will tell you) is a Toyota Camry. Let's assume I own a used 2011 Toyota Camry for affordability. This website tells me the MSRP is $27,500, but let's be generous and assume I'm able to haggle it down to $20,000 on account of it being a 10-year old shitbox. Assuming a interest rate of 3.11% and a loan period of 60 months, my monthly payment for this car is $360. I have just $815 of monthly income remaining.

So, I've paid taxes, rent/utilities, and a car. I still need to pay for food, gas, and any other surprise expenses that might come up. The USDA says one person should pay somewhere between $165 to $345 on groceries a month - let's assume I'm frugal and I pay $165. I have $650 of monthly income remaining.

The 2011 Toyota Camry has a combined MPG of 26. Let's assume my two-way commute every day is 60 minutes, as is the case for the average California citizen. Let's also assume I'm going an average of 45 mph during my commute. If I go to work five days a week, I am driving 225 miles a week, or 900 miles a month. 900 miles/26 MPG is equal to 34.62 gallons of gas, and the average gas price today in California is $4.705. 34.62 x 4.705 = $162.88 a month. Let's round up to $163 because decimals are gay - I now have $487 of disposable monthly income remaining.

There's several things I didn't calculate. I did not throw in a 401k payment. I did not throw in a student loan payment. I did not account for any surprise payments, because those are surprises and impossible to predict. I did not throw in frivolities like a gym membership, a streaming subscription, etcetera. Any one of these factors or a combination of them is going to financially fuck me in the ass worse than I already am. Now you want to jack up my already high expenses so welfare queens get all this crazy shit for "free" while I'm stuck footing their bill with next to no disposable income because of it?

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

None of them are free. If you want those things, you are either going to have to reallocate funds from other government services or tax your citizens more.

Americans spend more taxes per capita on Medicare and Medicaid than most Europeans spend on healthcare entirely, so that's not correct. The evidence actually shows that adopting a single-payer healthcare system saves people money: a good example being Taiwan, which adopted a single-payer healthcare system in 1995.

The reason most developed countries don't leave healthcare provision entirely to the market is because healthcare is an example of inelastic demand, and healthcare providers know this; hence America's inflated healthcare costs.

 

[Radola Gajda]

 

[StarDreamer2002]

Socialism, in the broadest meaning, is about how the individual is entitled to what society creates as a whole. A Western European style welfare state with employee protection is already socialistic in a way. What OP (who's a faggot) means is communism, basically, the most radical form of socialism. What most Western contemporary socialists want is socialism akin to Scandinavia or Rojava, not like in North Korea and Venezuela.

None of them are free. If you want those things, you are either going to have to reallocate funds from other government services or tax your citizens more. Knowing that government spending has a lovely habit of increasing over time rather than decreasing - guess which one they would do?

Let's say I make $31,960 a year in the state of California (the median income in the most populous state), and I am also a resident of California. My monthly income would be around $2,663, and using this calculator:

• 9.96% of my monthly paycheck ($265) goes to federal income tax.
• 1.61% of my monthly paycheck ($43) goes to state income tax.
• 6.20% of my monthly paycheck ($165) goes to Social Security.
• 1.45% of my monthly paycheck ($39) goes to Medicare.
• 1.00% of my monthly paycheck ($27) goes to state disability insurance tax.

I now have $2,125 remaining per month, or $25,500 a year. Taxes have taken out around 20% of my paycheck. Now let's look at what else I need to cover. I probably can't afford a house with this level of income, so we'll say I'm a rentfag. This website is telling me that the average rent in California is $1,488 (lol). I have just $1,175 remaining.

Let's assume I own a car to go to my job, where I make the rest of my measly paycheck. The most common car in the state of California (contrary to what someone who's watched Drive (2011) will tell you) is a Toyota Camry. Let's assume I own a used 2011 Toyota Camry for affordability. This website tells me the MSRP is $27,500, but let's be generous and assume I'm able to haggle it down to $20,000 on account of it being a 10-year old shitbox. Assuming a interest rate of 3.11% and a loan period of 60 months, my monthly payment for this car is $360. I have just $815 of monthly income remaining.

So, I've paid taxes, rent/utilities, and a car. I still need to pay for food, gas, and any other surprise expenses that might come up. The USDA says one person should pay somewhere between $165 to $345 on groceries a month - let's assume I'm frugal and I pay $165. I have $650 of monthly income remaining.

The 2011 Toyota Camry has a combined MPG of 26. Let's assume my two-way commute every day is 60 minutes, as is the case for the average California citizen. Let's also assume I'm going an average of 45 mph during my commute. If I go to work five days a week, I am driving 225 miles a week, or 900 miles a month. 900 miles/26 MPG is equal to 34.62 gallons of gas, and the average gas price today in California is $4.705. 34.62 x 4.705 = $162.88 a month. Let's round up to $163 because decimals are gay - I now have $487 of disposable monthly income remaining.

There's several things I didn't calculate. I did not throw in a 401k payment. I did not throw in a student loan payment. I did not account for any surprise payments, because those are surprises and impossible to predict. I did not throw in frivolities like a gym membership, a streaming subscription, etcetera. Any one of these factors or a combination of them is going to financially fuck me in the ass worse than I already am. Now you want to jack up my already high expenses so welfare queens get all this crazy shit for "free" while I'm stuck footing their bill with next to no disposable income because of it?

View attachment 2767152

So you don't use anything taxpayer funded? Like roads, bridges, trains, streetlights, police, firefighters, military defence, water supply, schools, hospitals, libraries, parks, pools etc.?

 

[Glowie]

Socialism, in the broadest meaning, is about how the individual is entitled to what society creates as a whole. A Western European style welfare state with employee protection is already socialistic in a way. What OP (who's a faggot) means is communism, basically, the most radical form of socialism. What most Western contemporary socialists want is socialism akin to Scandinavia or Rojava, not like in North Korea and Venezuela.

So you don't use anything taxpayer funded? Like roads, bridges, trains, streetlights, police, firefighters, military defence, water supply, schools, hospitals, libraries, parks, pools etc.?

Countries with Nordic models do not have employee protection by the state instead they rely unions that have been there since post WW 2, which handle pensions and are supposed to be represent the workers in specific fields, IE medical, education, industry, logistics etc. Unlike in United States Finland workers of Finland had to negotiate minimum wage, Healthcare and pensions latter of two are paid by the union and the state respectively. There is basic pension provided by the state and pension provided by the union. If you haven't been a member of any workers union or refused to pay union membership fees that go to your private pension funds, you are only entitled to basic pension which is mandated by the state that's around 800 dollars per month before taxes.
Because worker to beneficiary ratio is 1-2 in a society where we see less and less workers we end up in graph related, as a result as population ages on top of welfare leeches tax burdens on average workers sky rocket up to half of your income 56%, combined with high cost of living and 25% on all goods and other mandates and taxes set by the state you're lucky if you can get by.

Americans would be crippled by progressive tax system, VAT and introduction of any given universal system of income with their population and state system.

 

[StarDreamer2002]

Countries with Nordic models do not have employee protection by the state instead they rely unions that have been there since post WW 2, which handle pensions and are supposed to be represent the workers in specific fields, IE medical, education, industry, logistics etc. Unlike in United States Finland workers of Finland had to negotiate minimum wage, Healthcare and pensions latter of two are paid by the union and the state respectively. There is basic pension provided by the state and pension provided by the union. If you haven't been a member of any workers union or refused to pay union membership fees that go to your private pension funds, you are only entitled to basic pension which is mandated by the state that's around 800 dollars per month before taxes.

Sounds like discount anarcho-syndicalism.

Because worker to beneficiary ratio is 1-2 in a society where we see less and less workers we end up in graph related, as a result as population ages on top of welfare leeches tax burdens on average workers sky rocket up to half of your income 56%, combined with high cost of living and 25% on all goods and other mandates and taxes set by the state you're lucky if you can get by.

That's why socialists in the US often demand a job guarantee or universal basic income.

 

[Glowie]

Sounds like discount anarcho-syndicalism.

That's why socialists in the US often demand a job guarantee or universal basic income.

With population of 300 million and low worker beneficiary any kind of social is unattainable and will result in greater inflation as dollar weakens and higher cost of living will screw over the middle class.
Sosdems in United States believe in delusion of free stuff.
Stuff is far from free in Nordic model countries and can't be sustained in US.

It is beyond me how anyone could believe otherwise. No-one sane wants more federal control or socialist programs.

Are zoomers that fiscally illiterate?

 

[Mukhrani]

I think that there's a great deal of autism among both socialist idealists and ardent capitalism defenders. You run into the same thing while arguing with either or them. The biggest one is 'real capitalism/communism/socialism has never been tried!' They cannot deal with the messy nature of reality, everything is an argument about idealized systems that ignore human nature and complicated political realities. They are also both typically completely out of touch with reality, and are arguing about whether to overthrow capitalism and replace it with socialism when capitalism is already in the final stages of being overthrown and isn't being replaced with socialism - central banks keep the system afloat now, not profits, and markets are being swallowed at an ever accelerating pace by tech platforms which function as personal fiefdoms. Instead of coming up with novel ideas or analyses they're rehashing battles from the early to mid 20th century. On one side you have furries, junkies, and misfits larping as chiseled industrial factory workers who would have kicked their teeth in for being a degenerate back in the day, and on the other side you have awkward nerdy libertarians fantasizing about being captains of industry that, in reality, were usually patricians who functioned like a rump aristocracy, especially after a few generations, and were often the progressives of their time. There's also a lot of crossover when it comes to autism classics like MLP fandom, an obsession with trains (HANK REARDEN! COMRADE XI'S HIGH SPEED RAIL!), anime, and transgenderism/obsession with traps.

 

[Secret Messages]

the problem isn’t that I’m paying for roads, healthcare, schools, etc with taxes, the problem is that the money I’m paying is being siphoned away from those legitimate uses into inflated superintendent salaries and gibs for welfare queens. I would have no problem paying taxes if they were efficiently allocated to things that benefit society, but they’re largely squandered because there’s no accountability in government.