How do we solve the problem of Islam without violence or acceptance of there intolerant views?

[Basil II]

I like to question Muslims about Mahumid being a pedo and other questionable stuff in Islam. His youngest wife Aisha was 9 years old and he consummated the marriage when she was 12 or 13.

Another ridiculous part of the quran is a passage about politely leaving mahumid's house when you are a guest and not overstaying your welcome and making mahumid uncomfortable.

She was actually 6 when they married, and was consummated when she was 9. However they enganged in thigh sex before then.
The house thing is one of my favorite passages, it makes Muhammad look like an actual autist lmao.

 

[Sprig of Parsley]

Something that legit bothers me about Islam (in the "that can't be healthy" way) is how INCREDIBLY fatalistic they are. Everything happens because Allah wills it. If it didn't happen? Allah didn't will it. Free will is not there. They do whatever and it's "inshallah." They might put a lot of work into it, they might half-ass it, but inshallah.

Most Christians I've talked to pay lipservice to free will, at least. I don't understand how that can be consistent with an omniscient creator but they tend to at least kind of act like free will is a thing. Some retreat from that into Let Go and Let God a bit quicker than others, but Islam has no use for free will at all.

 

[murgatroid]

She was actually 6 when they married, and was consummated when she was 9. However they enganged in thigh sex before then.
The house thing is one of my favorite passages, it makes Muhammad look like an actual autist lmao.

There are different ages floating around, but regardless they all say she was a child and the marriage was consummated when she was extremely young as well.

 

[Sable]

People are probably going to disagree with me here, but integrating Muslims into local cultures was working pretty fine here right until they decided to import a fuckton of the worst sort, in numbers where they can easily stick to their own muslim clusters and not assimilate.

The naturalised suffered badly because of this because they were no longer radically muslim enough.

That only really works for small groups of muslims that exist long enough outside the echo chamber. For Islam as a whole? It's not looking good TBH. Maybe if they had a continent spanning 30 year religious war that kills most of them they'd eventually work on some sort of peace, but that's pretty optimistic.

 

[Basil II]

People are probably going to disagree with me here, but integrating Muslims into local cultures was working pretty fine here right until they decided to import a fuckton of the worst sort, in numbers where they can easily stick to their own muslim clusters and not assimilate.

The naturalised suffered badly because of this because they were no longer radically muslim enough.

That only really works for small groups of muslims that exist long enough outside the echo chamber. For Islam as a whole? It's not looking good TBH. Maybe if they had a continent spanning 30 year religious war that kills most of them they'd eventually work on some sort of peace, but that's pretty optimistic.

eh I think it would work fine even with a large number, look at how cucked Islam became under the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union despite a lot of areas being almost wholly Muslim.

 

[Sable]

eh I think it would work fine even with a large number, look at how cucked Islam became under the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union despite a lot of areas being almost wholly Muslim.

That's because the Russian Empire and Soviet Union weren't pussywhipped like the western europe currently accepting them is.

 

[UQ 770]

The trouble with the dynamic we have going is that for the loonie religious types, both the Social Justice and Alt-Right mentalities are a dream come true. You have the crimes and violence of extremists to point at and tell your followers to panic over, you have the nasty deport/kill/nuke them all Alt-Right attitude to point to and say "See? The infidels despise us!" and you have Social Justice to let you successfully infiltrate society under the guise of solidarity when in reality those pacifists are a bunch of push-overs.

Islamic extremism, like any other religious extremism, is not motivated at all by faith. Its motivated, much like anything else, by a bunch of unhinged power-seeking assholes who are out only for themselves. And they just know what to say to their followers to get them to do what they want. There are several fascinating documentaries on the subject of Muslim suicide bombers, and guess what, most of them are just kids or teenagers. Its actually a pretty simple scheme. You take some kid from a goat-fucking family who has had no real worldly experience except the Koran, and just tell them a bunch of lies or better yet dig up some unflattering news stories of people destroying that one thing in the whole world the kid actually unconditionally loves. Then you feed them some simple lies about the afterlife (for the older ones) or tell them the vests aren't actually lethal (for the younger ones) and, boom, instant Shake-and-Bake Jihadi.

In modernized countries, the dynamic changes. White kids shoot up schools all the time over here just because of the struggle of being an aggressive teenager in modern society. Add in the alienation of being born to an immigrant family to the rage of your typical punk and, once again, you have a Jihadi.

How do we fix this? Fucked if I know. Trying to create an ultra-politically correct movement that is all-inclusive like Social Justice clearly just pulls your teeth and leaves you defenseless against infiltrators. Being an asshole about immigration and presuming that muslims are somehow predisposed to violence more than the average punk also just fuels their perception that the western world is out to get them though. At least in America you can often let nature take its course and corrupt the natrualized generation into douchey, gun-toting, fast food-eating assholes like the rest of us are (I've witnessed this firsthand many times, its definitely not impossible). But with Europe and its legacy of cultural guilt for Colonialism, the idea of Europeanization is pretty much verboten.

Edit: Spelling error that was pissing me off.

 

[queerape]

There's this person I know who's a white convert to Islam, and he was a friend of mine in college. He seemed really nice and like any other Muslim when I knew him, but since I graduated a few years ago he has become more conservative and are posting more extreme stuff which I am finding concerning. Today he posted a pic of a woman in a niqab with some Quran quote, and he even covered her eyes with the word Tauba, which in Urdu and Arabic means avert your eyes from something lustful. I have used it jokingly before in reference to my boyfriend, but he was being totally serious here.

 

[Sprig of Parsley]

There's this person I know who's a white convert to Islam, and he was a friend of mine in college. He seemed really nice and like any other Muslim when I knew him, but since I graduated a few years ago he has become more conservative and are posting more extreme stuff which I am finding concerning. Today he posted a pic of a woman in a niqab with some Quran quote, and he even covered her eyes with the word Tauba, which in Urdu and Arabic means avert your eyes from something lustful. I have used it jokingly before in reference to my boyfriend, but he was being totally serious here.

What happens a lot of the time with white people who say the Shahadah is that they get a chip on their shoulder and are overeager to prove they're a REAL MUSLIM. This leads to shit like that Swedish guy who fucking joined ISIS. The fervor of the newly-converted is a real fucking thing.

 

[JektheDumbass]

We hack Israel's computers and set off a few nukes to Mecca. We then wait until the dust settles and mop up the rest.

 

[Trig.Point]

I think sometimes a little bit of intolerance is a good thing, and I don't necessarily hold it against Islam for not changing scripture to take account of western societal trends.

With regards the lefts love for Islam, I think it's largely being promoted by a strand of the left that just hate western society, in a way they're on the same page as so called Islamaphobes. The rest of the left the LGBTQI++ they're just mostly weak individuals so used to having hissy fits at Micro Aggressions they can't recognise a group that would see them all flung off buildings if they could.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I propose a new global religion of Syncretic Mormon Buddhist Confucianism.

 

[YikNemoShmoall]

The Muslims I have met (mainly taxi drivers) have always been friendly, warm, funny and polite so have felt that the fear of 'the Islam problem' in my country did have a bit of the phoboism about it. Yes there are bomb-the-world-extremists but there are extremists with other beliefs ( all aka lookseegloriousme).

Then I spent some time here https://www.ummah.com/forum/ (I see KF has been there too) and was sideswiped by what is accepted in Islamic culture and how different the worldview is. So much is just not compatible and is intolerant (although they do have memes ..kind of. whatever that means..) to 'western' society.

Solution? Maybe ISIS had a good plan? have a crazy caliphate some place where the hardliners can go to live and die by their own rules.

essentially making huge portions of the world uninhabited?

I get why the genocide thing is bad but why is this?

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Most Christians I've talked to pay lipservice to free will, at least. I don't understand how that can be consistent with an omniscient creator but they tend to at least kind of act like free will is a thing. Some retreat from that into Let Go and Let God a bit quicker than others, but Islam has no use for free will at all.

One crucial difference between Christianity and Islam is that the former is centered more around the salvation of the individual (hence it's emphasis on faith as a personal relationship to the divine), whereas the latter is centered more around the salvation of society (hence it's emphasis on the collective adherence to divine law). Free will is a concept which is generally understood to apply to individuals, so it would make sense that Islam would make fewer references to it.

This probably also ties into why Christianity generally appears to be much more conducive to civilization than Islam is. While the former lays the groundwork for innovation and progress through it's encouragement of individual betterment (see: protestant work ethic), the latter spurns the very notion of innovation, and thus lays the groundwork for stagnation, subsequent frustration, and eventual violence.

 

[AF 802]

I've come to accept that it's either conversion or genocide. You're inhuman if you stay Muslim.

 

[The Estatist]

Do what the Han Chinese are doing with Uyghurs if you need Achmeds around.