How do you explain Gun Control Politics to Foreigners

[thrasymachus]

Makes me wonder what foreigners, Euros in particular, are told about the US in their news media. Because when Euros try to put down Burgers, they almost always default to "MASS SHOOTING EPIDEMIC" talking points probably because that's how their country's media portrays the US.

There's that /pol/ meme of an American saying "Let me tell you about your country" to a European, but the reality is that the truth is the exact opposite of that; the mentality of "Let me tell you about your country" better explains how Euros act towards Americans.

Here in the Netherlands the typical view is that there are two americas, the good ones who vote democrats and like the gays, and the bad ones who vote republican, who are dumb fat racist gunloving hicks.

 

[Return of the Freaker]

Here in the Netherlands the typical view is that there are two americas, the good ones who vote democrats and like the gays, and the bad ones who vote republican, who are dumb fat racist gunloving hicks.

Out of curiosity,how do people in the Randstaat view those outside? Not really related, I know

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The problem is that in countries with gun control counties one cannot have a tool for self defense.

As such, one will need to learn effective hand to hand combat however that is banned too. Such, you are stuck with a martial arts aerobics class.

Using UK is just cheating. I do wonder what's the track record on self defence from home invasions in the USA, even people who've been on the range will probably have a hard time firing inside their home in the middle of the night.

 

[LaxerBRO]

Using UK is just cheating. I do wonder what's the track record on self defence from home invasions in the USA, even people who've been on the range will probably have a hard time firing inside their home in the middle of the night.

We tend not to have that many home invasions in the United States as nearly all criminal do not want to risk getting shot.

Rather, criminals would much rather break in when a person is at work and the kids at school.

As to self defense inside the home, what do you mean?

What would you characterize as a successful self defense situation?

One where the criminal is shot and killed? Shot and wounded? A shot is fired but it misses? A firearm is displayed and the criminal flees? The threat of having a firearm is made and the criminal flees?

Personally, I classify all scenarios I mentioned as successful self defense situations.

P.S. A very good video on how what to do in a home invasion if you are armed:

 

[Duke Nukem]

Easy. Tell him the 2nd amendment is absolute. Some people are scared of guns and want to stop people from having them, but their laws are doomed to be overturned on appeal eventually. As long as you're not a felon or involuntarily committed to a mental institution, any citizen can buy a gun. The gays afraid of nazis can buy guns, the blacks afraid of the kkk or gangs can buy guns, women afraid of rapist men can buy guns. In fact, women, small men and the elderly benefit the most from gun ownership.

Put it to them this way. Being afraid of or hating guns just for existing is as silly as being afraid of or hating minorities just for existing. Focus on the individual person.

Also, fun fact, gun control was heavily used in the US to keep blacks from owning guns after slavery. So it's racist too. Just gaslight them and ask why they want to take away the constitutional rights of POCs.

I love how gun control advocates try to frame their opponents as white supremacist Nazis and stuff while gun control was started for racist reasons. The irony is outstanding. Also, self defense is a basic human right just like freedom of speech, irrespective of any national constitution, which tyrants treat like toilet paper anyway.

 

[thrasymachus]

Out of curiosity,how do people in the Randstaat view those outside? Not really related, I know

I think the divide is mainly between the big cities and the smaller towns and villages. Urban vs rural basically. The urban elites don't really identify as Dutch, they see themselves more as European or cosmopolitan and anything typically Dutch is provincial and outdated.

 

[The Fuck's Going On Here]

Honestly, one of the big steps is either get him to a firing range for shooting a few rounds (pretty sure he's allowed to do that even if he doesn't have a green card. He just can't own one or something.) Teach him the four main rules of gun safety and proper way to shoot. Figure once he actually has it in his hands, understands how it is and how to wield it properly, he'd be more open to at least changing his mind.

The thing I've seen when interacting with people who are pro-gun control or are anti-gun, ESPECIALLY if they're from foreign countries, is they are either ignorant in how a gun works and believe shit they see on TV, or they see the gun as a kinda "moral" instrument i.e. it is the gun that makes people kill OR only evil people need guns. So you first have to get rid of that notion.

The thing you have to make him understand is that, end of the day, the responsibility lies with the man with the gun in his hands. The gun isn't what causes all that death, rather it is people who have that gun who do that, and that simply banning guns wouldn't necessarily stop their damage; it'd just change their method of attack. The suicidal folk would simply swallow meds instead of a bullet or take a long walk off a short roof. While the homicidal folk would just go for knives, axes, hammers, etc or pipe bombs, molotovs, hell even a truck of peace if they wanted lots of damage.

All the other points that people have made (2a is protection against tyranny, statistics are misleading, gun control laws were initially established to fuck with minorities, tons of people including minorities successfully use guns for defense (including situations where the guy doesn't fire the gun, just brandishes it and the attacker runs away), hell even mention the gun control laws that are already currently present, etc) are important; but first and foremost, the guy has to understand that the gun neither makes the person evil, not is it that only evil people want a gun. Once he understands that, he'll probably be more willing to open his mind on the topic.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

Tell them that by owning a gun, that gun will be their best friend that will help them get out of situations that would've otherwise got them killed.

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

The thing you have to make him understand is that, end of the day, the responsibility lies with the man with the gun in his hands. The gun isn't what causes all that death, rather it is people who have that gun who do that, and that simply banning guns wouldn't necessarily stop their damage; it'd just change their method of attack. The suicidal folk would simply swallow meds instead of a bullet or take a long walk off a short roof. While the homicidal folk would just go for knives, axes, hammers, etc or pipe bombs, molotovs, hell even a truck of peace if they wanted lots of damage.

My acceptance of guns went way up when I met people who openly acknowledged that guns are dangerous rather play their role down. Sure people are the killers, not their tools but methods matter too. Guns make killing easy, fast and done from a distance, it's different from knives and fists. You won't out run a bullet in same way you could a man with a knife. Actually there is very little else you can do with a gun than hurt or kill so there is special responsibility with them. Sometimes that can mean owning a gun is bad idea.

Nothing made me trust gun people more than seeing them treating guns' potential seriously and not covering how bad the bad could be. I was able to listen them because I didn't feel like they were blindly defending guns. That basically let me to look into the gun culture more and learn about guns and many gun related thing from laws and law enforcement to hunting and self defense. This has gone so far that someone who saw handguns basically evil is currently working on owning guns herself. Probably a hunting rifle of some sort but getting any guns without family hunting background is a slow process here.

 

[Linako 2.0]

A man breaks into your house and is a threat to you and whoever else is in the household.
calling the cops and them rushing over in a best case scenario would take 15 minutes.
Will you fight or will be a lamb slaughtered by wolves?

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Easy. Tell him the 2nd amendment is absolute. Some people are scared of guns and want to stop people from having them, but their laws are doomed to be overturned on appeal eventually. As long as you're not a felon or involuntarily committed to a mental institution, any citizen can buy a gun. The gays afraid of nazis can buy guns, the blacks afraid of the kkk or gangs can buy guns, women afraid of rapist men can buy guns. In fact, women, small men and the elderly benefit the most from gun ownership.

Put it to them this way. Being afraid of or hating guns just for existing is as silly as being afraid of or hating minorities just for existing. Focus on the individual person.

Also, fun fact, gun control was heavily used in the US to keep blacks from owning guns after slavery. So it's racist too. Just gaslight them and ask why they want to take away the constitutional rights of POCs.

I’d also try to couch it in shared history if possible considering both the US and India stuck it to the British; except the Empire of Ghandis time was a dying and largely spineless one. We didn’t have that luxury.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

Out of curiosity,how do people in the Randstaat view those outside? Not really related, I know

Randstad.

Pretty much like hicks with weird accents who don't matter.

Around the randstad is a bible belt, and beyond that you get quite a few different dutch cultures from the commie farmers in the north, the racist pie eaters in the south east, the really bumblefuck nowhere in the east and the we forgot it exist in the south west. And there's the drinker party state in the south.

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On topic people in the netherlands are generally anti-civilian gun ownage, though they only became controlled since the 70s because asian islanders did a series of hostage taking attacks of trains and such to demand political stuff.

The older gentlemen and women at gunranges tell me that before that you could just buy them and walk the street with them. Now nunchuku's are a controlled weapon. "Strangling sticks".

A couple of years back a famous lawyer on tv said that the netherlands has no legal protection of using guns for self defense, and that if someone broke into his house he would shoot them in the head and then in court defend himself by saying he was aiming above him as a warning shot.