How many nationalists/neo-Nazis/fascists do we have on here?

[NN 401]

It’s funny how many of the centrists here actually have data and historical knowledge to back up their views while the “race realists” entirely seem to operate on “feels.”

Moving to a less diverse area engenders a high trust?

Lol!


I’m sure that doesn’t have anything to do with economic class and money.

Let’s try that experience in some poor drug riddled coal mining town.

Apparently, white trash meth paradises don’t exist.

 

[Autocrat]

Is that really the only measure of a civilization? Whether or not they have enough guns for your liking?

No, that is your strawman. The notion I'm objecting to is that Europe didn't colonize Africa first because parts of Africa were too technologically advanced at the time. The easiest measure of a civilization is its technology. 15th century Africa was technologically bereft.

Blah blah blah

You're completely ignoring the point. You're saying these African nations were essentially as technologically advanced as the European powers. I'm asking you to point to a technology.

It’s funny how many of the centrists here actually have data and historical knowledge to back up their views while the “race realists” entirely seem to operate on “feels.”

Moving to a less diverse area engenders a high trust?

Lol!


I’m sure that doesn’t have anything to do with economic class and money.

Let’s try that experience in some poor drug riddled coal mining town.

Apparently, white trash meth paradises don’t exist.

Strawman after strawman

 

[The best and greatest]

No, that is your strawman. The notion I'm objecting to is that Europe didn't colonize Africa first because parts of Africa were too technologically advanced at the time. The easiest measure of a civilization is its technology. 15th century Africa was technologically bereft.

Actually it was a question for clarity, a call for elaboration. And it was in response to this.

Anyway you're failing to demonstrate any tangible way that any part of 15th century Africa was as technologically advanced as the European powers. What technology did they have?
Let alone technology for war. No guns, no cannons, no ballistae. The best they had was horses and rudimentary metal working.
Imagine a catapult vs those mud 'castles'. You are fucktarded.

Look at this absolutely exceptional strawman you're trying to prop up. I'm just saying they were nowhere near as advanced as Europe.

So it seems you've revised your position between then and now somewhat, and the main(Well, really only) measuring stick you seem to use for measuring technological advancement is the application of war weapons. You are of course, welcome to correct me.

 

[UQ 770]

No, that is your strawman. The notion I'm objecting to is that Europe didn't colonize Africa first because parts of Africa were too technologically advanced at the time. The easiest measure of a civilization is its technology. 15th century Africa was technologically bereft.

You're completely ignoring the point. You're saying these African nations were essentially as technologically advanced as the European powers. I'm asking you to point to a technology.

You have gotten turned around somewhere, I dunno what the last guy was arguing but I never said anything about Africa being "more technologically advanced than Europe." I'd bet actually money that somewhere in this thread someone told you Africa was just more advanced than you thought and you took it as some exceptional arguement about how Muh Dick is gonna obliterate the white race. I've only ever said that the influential parts of Africa were technologically comparable and resistant to invasion until such time as Europe had far better resources than they did.

 

[Lemmingwise]

It’s funny how many of the centrists here actually have data and historical knowledge to back up their views while the “race realists” entirely seem to operate on “feels.”

Moving to a less diverse area engenders a high trust?

Lol!


I’m sure that doesn’t have anything to do with economic class and money.

Let’s try that experience in some poor drug riddled coal mining town.

Apparently, white trash meth paradises don’t exist.

I haven't seen anyone deny that economic class and money are also influencers, but that does not mean they're the only influencers, as you seem to demand.



I've mentioned this putnam study pages back.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x


Here's more data:


Proximity of diverse living reduces trust:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0003122415577989

It does not show up at the nationwide level in Europe:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0010414008325286

Trust at municipial level decreases with increased diversity in Denmark:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.00289.x

Increasing diversity in areas undermines cohesion for those who stay in that area:
https://academic.oup.com/esr/article/32/1/54/2404332


Your turn. Give me your data that would support the idea that trust and cohesion do not decrease in neighborhoods that get more diverse.

 

[UQ 770]

Your turn. Give me your data that would support the idea that trust and cohesion do not decrease in neighborhoods that get more diverse.

I wish I knew where the fuck you lived so I could sell you some volcano insurance right now.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I wish I knew where the fuck you lived so I could sell you some volcano insurance right now.

We've already established that you would gladly steal shit if given the chance, so the chance to ever find out where I live are zero.

Also, no need to get testy if you don't have any data to back up your feelings.

 

[Autocrat]

So it seems you've revised your position between then and now somewhat, and the main(Well, really only) measuring stick you seem to use for measuring technological advancement is the application of war weapons. You are of course, welcome to correct me.

From me:

What technology did they have?
Let alone technology for war.

Key phrase "let alone". You're going to have to dig in to see me mention architecture, literature, and art. And see them implying that Europe had to wait 3 centuries until they were able to handily colonize Africa.

I've never revised my position. Feel free to tell me how Africa was in other ways technologically on par with the European powers.

You have gotten turned around somewhere, I dunno what the last guy was arguing but I never said anything about Africa being "more technologically advanced than Europe."

Where did you get those quotations from? Literally from my post that you quoted:

You're saying these African nations were essentially as technologically advanced as the European powers

And this is what I'm arguing against:

The Sahelian Empires and Ethiopia were essentially on the same technological level as Europe through the middle ages.

So, for the last time, please tell me about the technology of medieval Africa

 

[UQ 770]

We've already established that you would gladly steal shit if given the chance, so the chance to ever find out where I live are zero.

You can't hide that wallet from me forever.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Haiti was a clusterfuck even if you were biracial. The resulting invasion of the Dominican Republic is why many Dominicans would identify more with /pol/ and Uncle Ruckus than Haitiains or black Americans.

Dominicans also like baseball; that often overlooked-as-harmless tool of insidious American imperialism.

Seriously; Puerto Ricans, too. I often wonder sometimes if baseball is one of the two or three things that keeps them from going full Grenada.

 

[The best and greatest]

Key phrase "let alone". You're going to have to dig in to see me mention architecture, literature, and art. And see them implying that Europe had to wait 3 centuries until they were able to handily colonize Africa.

I've never revised my position. Feel free to tell me how Africa was in other ways technologically on par with the European powers.

Well now wait you just did it again. Are we talking about Africa having technological parity with Europe being a deciding factor in why Europeans didn't go there in the 15th century or are we talking about Africa just having technological parity with Europe in the 15th century?

Now that I think of it, there doesn't even seem to be much sense comparing technology levels of Africa and Europe given both continents didn't even have technological parity within themselves. Especially Africa.

 

[Billy_Sama]

I am appalled that how many literally Hitler votes poll had.
I thought I was the one and only literal Hitler.

 

[Autocrat]

Well now wait you just did it again. Are we talking about Africa having technological parity with Europe being a deciding factor in why Europeans didn't go there in the 15th century or are we talking about Africa just having technological parity with Europe in the 15th century?

Now that I think of it, there doesn't even seem to be much sense comparing technology levels of Africa and Europe given both continents didn't even have technological parity within themselves. Especially Africa.

How about you talk about the best of Africa, and we go from there?

And I'm not 'doing it again'. I never did it to begin with outside of your strawman. If you followed along you'd see that the main point is that they weren't on par with eachother. One or both of them tried to use the fact that European powers had to wait 3 centuries to colonize Africa as a kind of proof that Africa was too technologically advanced to conquer.

 

[Slap47]

Africa was definitely backwards by comparison but they were driven by different forces. West Africa was isolated but fantastically wealthy and had kings that could make fortunes just chilling. Their situation was kinda like the Chinese one. They would reach ascendancy and then degenerate until they were conquered by barbarians (aka, Jihadis both arab and black)

Europe had low populations and few resources but had access to huge super highways (Baltic Sea and Mediterranean) and many rivers. European conquest proved to be less than profitable due to the great powers forming giant coalitions thanks to their interconnectedness. These great powers were basically evenly matched and had to do excess things to thrive. Britain developed a textiles industry by trading with the Dutch. This lead to incredible institutions like the joint-stock company. Portugal sailed to Mali to transport slaves for the Arabs. The Portuguese learned slavery from the Arabs and started some slave colonies on their Atlantic islands. The rest of Europe saw this and the rest is history.

The Congo? Bit too isolated and shitty to actually get anything done. They're literally in impassable jungles and too far away from everybody to learn new ideas.

Ethiopia? They did a pretty good job at surviving despite being surrounded by Islamic superpowers. They had to move their capitol dozens of times and eventually had to opt for a moving tent city as their capitol.

The things about guns is that they weren't really all that useful if you didn't have armor. The Africans had a tradition of lightly armored soldiers with long thin swords. They live on the equator so this makes sense that they wouldn't have invented the stuff. Why didn't they mass produce guns like the Japanese? Well, they could literally just sell their enemies to buy some so why make them?

 

[The best and greatest]

How about you talk about the best of Africa, and we go from there?

Ajuran Sultanate looks like a good bet, they existed in the time described, depended heavily on trade and are noted for their construction projects such as castles and cisterns some of which are still in use today.

The wikipedia page actually cites the 15th century Portuguese Explorer Vasco Da Gama on his visit to Ajuran.

Vasco Da Gama, who passed by Mogadishu in the 15th century, noted that it was a large city with houses of four or five storeys high and big palaces in its centre and many mosques with cylindrical minarets.

I'm trying to find an online copy of the book this cites, I suspect Da Gama's Memoires/Travel Journal would be useful in exploring this topic further. Not just in this case but in the entire length of Africa Da Gama had contact with.

And I'm not 'doing it again'. I never did it to begin with outside of your strawman. If you followed along you'd see that the main point is that they weren't on par with eachother. One or both of them tried to use the fact that European powers had to wait 3 centuries to colonize Africa as a kind of proof that Africa was too technologically advanced to conquer.

Okay I misunderstood you then.

 

[FitBitch]

I'm a nationalist but not in the "white" way, but with a sense of duty and pride in my citizenship and the history of my country.

 

[Slap47]

I'm a nationalist but not in the "white" way, but with a sense of duty and pride in my citizenship and the history of my country.

I would probably be the same if my country were worthy of such adoration.

 

[Autocrat]

Ajuran Sultanate looks like a good bet, they existed in the time described, depended heavily on trade and are noted for their construction projects such as castles and cisterns some of which are still in use today.

The wikipedia page actually cites the 15th century Portuguese Explorer Vasco Da Gama on his visit to Ajuran.



I'm trying to find an online copy of the book this cites, I suspect Da Gama's Memoires/Travel Journal would be useful in exploring this topic further. Not just in this case but in the entire length of Africa Da Gama had contact with.



Okay I misunderstood you then.

I'm actually surprised at how advanced they seem. They were a proxy for the Ottomans.
Still, from what I gather, the Ajuran Sultanate compared to Portugal in the 15th century seems akin to US vs Iraq in modern times. Are you saying they were 'essentially on par', or are you just pointing to a well developed society in medieval Africa?

Here is an interesting thing:

The Portuguese Empire was unsuccessful of conquering Mogadishu where the powerful naval Portuguese commander called João de Sepúvelda and his army fleets was soundly defeated by the powerful Ajuran navy during the Battle of Benadir.[30]

Portuguese who sent a punitive expedition against Mogadishu under João de Sepúlveda, which was unsuccessful.[44]

From the wikis of

Sultanate of Mogadishu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

+

Ajuran Sultanate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Respectively.

However:

At Mogadishu, João de Sepúlveda "destroyed the city and did them great damage and injury"

Sources for Portuguese victory are 4, sources for the apparent defeat are one.

Regardless, it seems at least from a military perspective, the Portuguese were much more advanced. They sacked a bunch of their cities and ultimately won the war, despite Somalia getting help from the Ottomans.

On other aspects besides the military, I think you'd be hard pressed to show that they were essentially technologically on par with Portugal.
I'd say the same for less powerful European countries like Poland and Ireland.

 

[NN 401]

I haven't seen anyone deny that economic class and money are also influencers, but that does not mean they're the only influencers, as you seem to demand.



I've mentioned this putnam study pages back.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x


Here's more data:


Proximity of diverse living reduces trust:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0003122415577989

It does not show up at the nationwide level in Europe:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0010414008325286

Trust at municipial level decreases with increased diversity in Denmark:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.00289.x

Increasing diversity in areas undermines cohesion for those who stay in that area:
https://academic.oup.com/esr/article/32/1/54/2404332


Your turn. Give me your data that would support the idea that trust and cohesion do not decrease in neighborhoods that get more diverse.

I don’t need to.

A & H documents the erosion and threats of our basic constitutional rights by a select class of white people every other day... and yet you’re here patting yourself on the back that you’ve managed to basically hide among the herd and used cherry picked data to support your post hoc rationalizations.

And fuck Europe.

A bunch of white people who couldn’t live together with other white people and then proceeded to rape and kill each other in World War 1 and 2.

Even their colonialism was about screwing other white people over. Black people and Natives just happened to be in the way.

But let me guess?

It was all the Jews’ fault.


Facebook, Google, Apple, Austin, San Francisco, the hollowing out of Colorado*, Hollywood, Ivy League schools...

How high is your trust setting now?



*fun fact before all the moneyed white transplants showed up New York could actually elect a republican to office to clean up their mess.
Not anymore. Now we have occasional Cortex and Bill de Buttfuckio.

But these transplants look like you, have money and good taste so what does it matter if their character is completely shot to shit, right?

So long as you “feel safe.”

 

[Lemmingwise]

It’s funny how many of the centrists here actually have data and historical knowledge to back up their views while the “race realists” entirely seem to operate on “feels.”

I've mentioned this putnam study pages back.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x

Your turn. Give me your data that would support the idea that trust and cohesion do not decrease in neighborhoods that get more diverse.

I don’t need to.

I rest my case.