Culture How To Believe False Things - Until I was 38 I thought Men's World Cup team vs Women's World Cup team would be a fair match and couldn't figure out why they didn't just play each other

Link/Archive

Intro

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[you can skip this section if you don’t need context and just want to know how I could believe such a crazy thing]

In my chat community: “Open Play” dropped, a book that says there’s no physical difference between men and women so there shouldn’t be separate sports leagues. Boston Globe says their argument is compelling. Discourse happens, which is mostly a bunch of people saying “lololololol great trolling, what idiot believes such obvious nonsense?”

I urge my friends to be compassionate to those sharing this. Because “until I was 38 I thought Men's World Cup team vs Women's World Cup team would be a fair match and couldn't figure out why they didn't just play each other to resolve the big pay dispute.” This is the one-line summary of a recent personal world-shattering I describe in a lot more detail here (link).

I’ve had multiple people express disbelief that this is possible. Here is how it is possible.

Who Are You Going To Believe? Everything Everyone Says Plus Everything You See, or Some Science-Illiterate Jerks?

As I talk about frequently on this blog1, autistic people have a natural tendency to believe that when other people say things they are trying to truthfully communicate what they actually believe. Because otherwise what’s the point?? Several friends say “Yes ok, but you have eyes, right? You can see things yourself?”

Can I? What is it I saw, when I looked around?

I grew up in a suburb of a small Blue city in the 90s. I did not see men fighting women. My time was spent in school where teachers interact via words and chalkboards. My peers were children and their strength was proportional to what grade they were in, not their sex. My siblings were younger than me, so weaker. My babysitter was older than me, so she was stronger. All adults were functionally infinitely strong.

At recess I read books. I opted out of gym as much as possible, it was humiliating and vulgar. The only post-puberty phys ed class I was forced to take was sex segregated so I wouldn't have had any opportunity to see differences. In earlier gym classes I didn’t look around much. Why would I? Are people comparing themselves to see how many jumping jacks they can do? I just wanted it to be done with.

I didn’t watch sports, but even when I was exposed to them they were already sex-segregated, so how could I have observed that women are having a hard time against men? Mostly I just noticed that women were excluded from sports altogether. I was told this was due to sexism, which lined up with everything I had been told about the world, so obviously it was true.

But the Olympics!! What about the Olympics?

Men don’t compete against women, so a casual watching of a nearby TV during a conversation doesn’t give any observations. To notice a difference I would have to look for the reported numbers somewhere on the screen, write them down, and compare them across the events. Again, this is not a level of interest I held/hold for sports.

OK, but what about all of media everywhere?

I grew up in the 90s. My media diet consisted of awesome stuff like Aliens, Terminator 2, Buffy, Xena, Dark Angel, the various Star Treks, The Matrix, Farscape etc. The rule for who kicked ass was "the one that's the main character." If an action movie or series had a woman in it, she kicked ass.

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My books were science fiction and fantasy and Marvel. What determined the winner of a fight wasn’t muscles, it was cybernetics and laser guns, or dark rituals and spell books and magic swords, or getting the best mutation.

The very earliest RPG I played did have a tiny points-neutral modifier for sex, but by the time I bought my second computer game even that was gone. Stats were allocated by the player, and could be modified by race (elf/dwarf/orc, human/ghoul/supermutant) but never by sex. Sex was purely an aesthetic choice. Why would whether you have a dick or not affect how hard you can swing a sword?

The one difference everyone did admit to was men have a modest advantage in upper-body strength, so they’ll do more pushups and pull-ups than women can.

So yes, everywhere I looked, men and women were basically identical. It’s actually very easy to not get any evidence of male physical advantage if you don’t spend much time interacting with the physical world and all your second-hand sources are politely not drawing attention to the embarrassingly unequal parts of reality. And every disparity that does exist is easily attributed to the deep sexism of society which is as well established as the heliocentric model of the solar system.

I hold that — given my experience — I was more justified in my belief than anyone who claims that men playing against women for the World Cup would be unfair. All it takes is trusting that people believe what they say over and over for decades across all of society, and getting all your evidence about reality filtered through those same people. Which is actually not very hard.


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1
Here and here and here for starters
 
His Eureka moment
Link/Archive

Reality Keeps Shattering​

I was raised in the 80s/90s. I knew that women and men are basically the same. We’re all humans. Men have more upper-body strength, and are prone to violence, but aside from that, and the reproductive bits, the sexes are undifferentiated. My heroes harped on this and backed it up with biological science.2

In ~2020 we witnessed the Men’s/Women’s World Cup Scandal. The US Men’s Soccer team had failed to qualify for the previous World Cup, whereas the US Women’s Soccer team had won theirs! And yet the women were paid less that season after winning than the men were paid after failing to qualify. There was Discourse.

I was in the car listening to NPR, pulling out of the parking lot of a glass supplier when my world shattered again.3 One of the NPR leftist commenters said roughly ~‘One can propose that the mens team and womens team play against each other to sort this out—’

At which point I mentally pumped my fist in the air and cheered. I had been thinking exactly this for WEEKS. I couldn’t quite understand why no one had said it! As we all know, men and women are largely undifferentiated. Soccer is a perfect example of this, because the sport doesn’t allow men to use their upper-body strength advantage at all. The one thing that makes men stand out is neutralized here, and a direct competition would put this thing to rest and humiliate all the sexists. I smiled and waited to see how the right-wing asshat would squirm out of having to endorse a match that we all knew would shut him up.

The left-wing commentator continued ‘—is what one would say if one is a right-wing deplorable that just wants to laugh while humiliating those that are already oppressed. Naturally none of us would ever propose such a thing, we aren’t horrible people. Here’s what they get wrong…”

I didn’t hear any more after that, because my world had shattered again. A proponent of my side was not only admitting that the women’s team would lose badly, but that everyone knew and had always known that the women’s team would lose badly, so the only reason one would even suggest such a thing was to humiliate them.

Here I was, in my late 30s, still believing that men and women are basically the same, like a fucking chump. Do these people realize how much of my life, my personal and public decisions, my views of my fellow man and my plans for the future, were predicated on this being actually true? Not a single person had ever once bothered to take me aside and whisper “Hey, we know this isn’t actually true, we’re just acting this way because it leads to better outcomes for society, on net, if we do. Obviously we make exceptions for the places where the literal truth is important. Welcome to the secret club, don’t tell the kids.”

These were the people who always had told me men and women are equal in all things, explicitly saying that anyone who actually really believed this was a deplorable right-wing troll. I could taste the betrayal in my mouth. It tasted of bile. How had this happened to me again?

A couple years prior I had lost a woman I dearly loved, as well as the associated friend group, when I had Not Gotten The Joke about a different belief and accidentally acted as if I believed something that everyone agreed to say was true was Actually True4. I didn’t understand what had happened back then. Now it was starting to make sense. I was too damn trusting and autistic to make a reliable ally in a world bereft of truth.
 
Tl:dr; writer is autistic and incapable of extrapolating observed info from one source and applying it to another source.
Ie: watching men run down a field in 2 seconds and watching women run down the same field in 4 seconds just means the women weren't running as fast as they could.
 
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As I talk about frequently on this blog1, autistic people have a natural tendency to believe that when other people say things they are trying to truthfully communicate what they actually believe. Because otherwise what’s the point?? Several friends say “Yes ok, but you have eyes, right? You can see things yourself?”
I honestly think this is part of the problem. Autistic people are very literal and he cites action movies and video games as part of the reason he believed men and women have equal strength.
Do these people realize how much of my life, my personal and public decisions, my views of my fellow man and my plans for the future, were predicated on this being actually true? Not a single person had ever once bothered to take me aside and whisper “Hey, we know this isn’t actually true, we’re just acting this way because it leads to better outcomes for society, on net, if we do. Obviously we make exceptions for the places where the literal truth is important. Welcome to the secret club, don’t tell the kids.”
The idea that people may misrepresent things due to ulterior motives, or genuinely because it makes for a more enjoyable piece of media or video game did not occur for him. It's great he's realising this now, but so many people on the internet are autistic and they're not all having this eureka moment. It's why over the last few years the idea that biological sex isn't real keeps getting repeated ad nauseum.
 
Although he's an NPC, and will surely get shit on in this thread, I appreciate his willingness to be vulnerable about it. I would like to see it made more acceptable to admit that you were duped by the machine, and this article (in much greater quantity) is the kind of thing that could get us there.
I'd argue if he was a true NPC he wouldn't have changed his thinking at all, maybe even get angry and double down which happens all the time in AH, but instead allowed himself to be challenged and thought about his own principles. It's more NPC to refuse to think about something presented to you.
 
Ctrl+F “permavirgin”
Ctrl+F “literally never touched or been touched by an adult human female after age 14”

Truly not seeing the excuse.
Individual cases don't necessarily extrapolate to the general rule.

The claim isn't that some women are weaker than some men, but that the bell curve for women is shifted far, far to the weaker end. And to make that claim you need a sampling of data. If everyone is feeding you woke nonsense, and you aren't personally acquainted with sporting events yourself, it's very easy to take that at face value.

It really is an interesting peek into how superficially silly beliefs can take hold. Especially when certain parties are heavily invested in specific interpretations of those beliefs.

I guess this guy is somewhat of a moron for not at least knowing that size disparities between the sexes will lead to strength disparities between the sexes. But he could at least reasonably believe that men and women of comparable weights would have comparable strengths. That's not immediately intuitively false if you aren't familiar with all the stupid troon arguments people get up to.
 
The autist is making explicit what is implicitly true for the majority of people. They are essentially walking, breathing antennae responding to signals from pre-approved signal sources. Turbo-autists, despite their gullibility, are nevertheless very Truth-obsessed and therefore more likely to break out of bad signal-response loops because they check for consistency.
 
I grew up with messages like that (everyone is equal, and girls are as good or better in most cases) and then simultaneous messages that all men are dangerous rapists by default and all women live in fear of them.
They also said stuff like "if a woman has 1 drink and a man has 1 drink and they have sex together, he raped her."

It really made the women seem like emotionally-fragile people who gave up, panicked and accused people of stuff at the drop of a hat. The men on the other hand were tasked with constantly corking up their true evil nature.

Progressives just don't care about logical implications of their messages, it's all in exciting messages and gut feeling statements. Surely women would like you more the more vulnerable and apologetic you are, right? Like an alcoholic who admits he has a problem. Surely that would get women attracted to me as I'm one of the good ones. It's only logical, and everyone around me agrees that is how an ideal man should act. And that's my story for why I didn't get laid and was a fucking retard in college.

Thankfully I learned a lot after graduating from college and leaving that bubble, but most of my peers and family are still in it, or are pretending to be.

And then there's the FTM trans stuff. I really want to pick their brains about the male oppressor view. Do they believe all genders are equal and harmless, or do they just want to join "team rape and oppression?" I doubt I would get a straight answer.
 
The idea that people may misrepresent things due to ulterior motives, or genuinely because it makes for a more enjoyable piece of media or video game did not occur for him. It's great he's realising this now, but so many people on the internet are autistic and they're not all having this eureka moment. It's why over the last few years the idea that biological sex isn't real keeps getting repeated ad nauseum.
If it were just being unable to intake the data correctly? I'd be sympathetic, but, people like the OP make up less than 5% of the "problem" - the other 95% are willingly ignoring what can be observed plainly because they desperately want to believe true equality is possible (their entire worldview collapses if this is shown as false) or have been brow-beaten into not making others "feel bad" and have gone along with that for so long, it's become accepted truth by the company you keep always repeating it .

And it's worse now than it was in the PC 90's - the "everyone's equal" still meant equal chance, but if you failed to meet the standards? You couldn't do it, sorry.

Somewhere along the line that was changed into "if the standards weed you out? They were unfair! Everyone, even a 400 pound hamplanet, can be a model if they want to!"
 
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Autistic people are very literal and he cites action movies and video games as part of the reason he believed men and women have equal strength.
To be fair to him non-fictional sources are the same. How often is it stated as fact that all women can do anything men can, including jobs men are usually considered better at due to the physical demands of the roles?
 
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At least this guy realized it at some point. I guess if you avoid phys ed and never actually saw the physical differences in action, it's easy to believe there are none.
If it's just one guy truly believing it, there isn't really a problem.
But many young women also believe it, and think a self defense class is gonna help them. Making them overconfident. That's where it gets dangerous for them.
 
My books were science fiction and fantasy and Marvel. What determined the winner of a fight wasn’t muscles, it was cybernetics and laser guns, or dark rituals and spell books and magic swords, or getting the best mutation.

The very earliest RPG I played did have a tiny points-neutral modifier for sex, but by the time I bought my second computer game even that was gone. Stats were allocated by the player, and could be modified by race (elf/dwarf/orc, human/ghoul/supermutant) but never by sex. Sex was purely an aesthetic choice. Why would whether you have a dick or not affect how hard you can swing a sword?
The left-wing commentator continued ‘—is what one would say if one is a right-wing deplorable that just wants to laugh while humiliating those that are already oppressed. Naturally none of us would ever propose such a thing, we aren’t horrible people. Here’s what they get wrong…”

I didn’t hear any more after that, because my world had shattered again. A proponent of my side was not only admitting that the women’s team would lose badly, but that everyone knew and had always known that the women’s team would lose badly, so the only reason one would even suggest such a thing was to humiliate them.

Here I was, in my late 30s, still believing that men and women are basically the same, like a fucking chump. Do these people realize how much of my life, my personal and public decisions, my views of my fellow man and my plans for the future, were predicated on this being actually true? Not a single person had ever once bothered to take me aside and whisper “Hey, we know this isn’t actually true, we’re just acting this way because it leads to better outcomes for society, on net, if we do
How does a person like this exist? How can you live on this world for three decades and be this way?
 
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