Is Bullying even bad?

[ZeCommissar]

Getting bullied? Just grow some balls and shoot up the school.

 

[AnOminous]

Well I dunno about you guys, but my way of telling people to quit doing some shit is to simply say "Hey, quit doing that shit, fucko".

A lot of people throw around arguments that it's actually a good thing overall since it discourages negative behaviour, but that's demonstratably not the case. See: Every single lolcow. All bullied, none of them changed. In fact, being ostracised actually makes them even more negative.

But they're lolcows. Maybe people who aren't total lost causes benefit.

 

[Melkor]

Bullying sucked as a kid and it contributed to a lot of the issues I have now.

Then again I was the token weird kid. I wanted to be cool and funny so I did stupid shit to get people's attention. This was back when I was a little tyke in elementary school.

Obviously I grew out of it and now I laugh at spergs on the internet to feel better about myself.

 

[The Iconoclast]

Yes. It is.

When people get harassed by their peers for arguably arbitrary factors (ex: "Ha! He has glasses and we don't! Four-eyes!"), then that is a bad thing.

Only lolcows think bullying is real.

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

 

[DuckSucker]

I think a lot of yall are going into this with the predisposition that bullying is done from some inherent position of altruism. Usually, bullying is not.

Yes, it is someone picking on someone's eccentricities, but it's not done as a way of society to say, "Hey cut that shit out." Bullying is done in order to gain status for oneself at the expense of others, usually. It's more of a long term, psychological thing, it goes on and on. Bullying isn't really like, "Hey fat fuck! Yo you look like a 20 lb bag of shit, did your MOM dress you?" It's not just a one off fight, or even a fight every day with one specific dude. It's more manipulative, singling out one person and exploiting their weakness to meet your own goals or make yourself look better. I think in a way it's kind of like what people here might call "troll shielding".

Maybe Jeremy shit his pants at school one day. Obviously he's gonna get shit for it but the thing is, he probably didn't do it because he thought it was okay, and even if he did, after the initial ridicule, he probably wont do it again; but if it's not one thing, it's another. Now Jeremy has the reputation of a pants shitter, and kids arent gonna let that die. He's gonna go on to the next year and people are going to spread rumors, Jeremy the pants shitter tried to molest Nancy. Jeremy the pants shitter only bathes once a week! Even if Jeremy tries to fix all of his social eccentricities or bad habits, they're going to find something else to make fun of Jeremy for. And nobody wants to be associated with Jeremy, because of his reputation, he's socially isolated and nobody wants to get their hands dirty, nobody wants to be a part of that. Everybody bands together and they bolster each other up and they feel like they're all better than Jeremy and they have a sense of belonging, and a sense that they're part of the better group. They all elevate their own social status, especially with each other, through treating Jeremy like shit.

THAT's bullying. A person picks a target ahead of time, for whatever reason, they see someone weak and exploit them, using those avenues of "Well, so and so deserves it. Did you see what they did?" Bullying is vindictive, it goes beyond just pointing and laughing. There isn't really a purpose or an end goal of bullying, not necessarily a catalyst for why it continues, no rhyme or reason, there's not really even a grudge or vendetta; it's just people taking advantage of other people they deem weaker than themselves, to meet their own ends, or feel better about themselves. Eventually they will move on and find somebody else, or they will deal with their own issues, and grow out of it, but I dont think bullying is done as a way of social conditioning, inherently.

That said, I mean I dealt with some shit, nothing that I would call true "bullying" per my own definition, but a bunch of events that fall into the category of "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger". I think that's more along the lines of what you're calling bullying as social conditioning here, and in that aspect, I think it has its role and purpose. Everybody deals with that to some degree, and it does help shape you, build character, and define you. But vindictively dragging out someone's misery, mocking them, I dont think that helps them "learn" to not do whatever it is they did to get the treatment in the first place; it's just cruel.

EDIT: One last thought I have, I would say that trying to justify treating someone poorly as "social conditioning" skirts a little bit close to the "she was asking for it" argument. It's not one-to-one, but it's a slippery slope away. I have a few more thoughts but I sperged enough already, and they aren't really organized in my head anyway.

 

[pozilei]

Well, I can see that sometimes a kid gets bullied because they "deserve" it. I remember a boy I went to school with who was a total creeper towards the girls, and a weirdo, wannabe coolguy with the boys: he'd barge into conversations he wasn't a part of, turned up to things he wasn't invited to...the last straw was him sneaking into the boy's locker room during PE and stealing everyone's money/valuable stuff. Things kinda turned ugly then because no one was willing to tolerate him anymore after that.

But that's totally the exception to the rule. Almost all bullying happens to a completely innocent person. To someone just a little bit too meek for their own good, or they're already a bit insecure about themselves because they're too fat/too scrawny, too short/too tall, got some acne, wear glasses, got a stutter...and kids, for some bizarre animalistic reason, can smell weakness and channel all their insecurities, aggression, boredom onto that person.

 

[cuddle striker]

after reading all this what I'm thinking is that Bullying is not good, but that "bullying" is shit that isn't even bullying at all and people are watering down what the goddamn word means.

like sexual harassment, like muh free speech. bullying doesn't mean all the shit people are thinking it means.

 

[Caesare]

What if you're bullying the bullies?

 

[Mrs Paul]

Most of the bullying I experienced was typical catty girl bullshit. (And I hate to say, I participated a time or two). It sounds stupid now, but when you're 12, it can really really suck, especially when a lot of times it's friends turning on friends.

I think we forget sometimes that kids aren't miniature adults. Most of them aren't trying to "well, maybe he'll change his ways." Kids don't think like that. Most of them are just nasty little shits. And a lot of time, they'll choose a target not because of anything the person has anything they need to change, but just because they're weaker and can't fight back. Or even for no reason at all, just because the other one happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

What if you're bullying the bullies?

You're Kiwi Farms.

 

[Ravelord]

Meh, it teaches you how to kill yourself (as in not attaching yourself to anything, like an identity). It made me suffer a bit on highschool and probably helped break when I started college. But I kinda needed to fall to my worst in order to re-think my life. So it's not completely bad, but also not good. Depends on your parents. If they teach you to be strong, it can suck. If they don't care too much because they have their issues or didn't overcome their own problems in life, it kinda helps.

The lesson here that bullying would force you to rely on yourself more and make you more wary of people. But that's my two cents.

 

[Svirfneblin]

So far in this thread, I see people trying to justify their behaviour. Saying "Grow a pair" is great to say from a position of anonymity, but is that a truly fair characterization? I'm in full agreement with the subtext of this website - people should be very careful about what they put out there, and about obscuring the ties to your real life identity, whenever possible. I don't hate people for having weird fetishes that don't hurt anybody, but I cringe to high hell when I see a guy copy-pasting crops of MLP characters in their real life arms.

But saying "Grow a pair" is easy to say if you haven't been targeted. You could all say "I've been bullied before! It isn't so bad!", but we don't really know if you're telling the truth. One of my favourite, underappreciated subreddits is /r/asablackman (which tries to show points where people are clearly lying about themselves), and it demonstrates that people will maliciously tell lies to try and push a narrative, especially so when they're under the cover of being anonymous. It's full of fantastic 'gotcha!' moments of men pretending to be women, straight guys pretending to be gay, whites being blacks, Christians being Jews!

Something tells me many of you either haven't been really bullied in the past, or that perhaps you have always been bullies, and need to find a way to justify the rightness of your actions. I won't speak on any kind of authority for that, but it's something to consider. My personal credence is that if something does not hold up well under scrutiny, then it may not be doing any good.

You're Kiwi Farms.

Is that really true, though? I would say yes if the criteria for selecting whom is doing actual bullying was strict in requiring full evidence of actual wrongdoing, but so far, I see that many of the "Horrorcows" are targets who deal in wrong-think, or who said something candidly. That, or people are humiliated into saying something stupid, because as it turns out that humans under pressure do stupid shit.

Your targets do not have the luxury of anonymity like you do yourselves. I see people acting high and mighty about having "the right opinions" all over Kiwi Farms, but we really don't know, do we? For all we know, you could be a diaper-wearing furry cub fetishist that has sent out pictures of their shit stains to people. To me, it demonstrates a lack of awareness, a lack that you are coming from the advantage.

The resistance to self-scrutiny is telling. I like to think I arrived here with fairly milquetoast reasons - to clarify some things spoken by a twitch streamer I follow. But even so much as talking has lead to immediate witch-hunting and laughter and painting me as a filthy SJW racist asshole.. for daring to talk. "No white knights!" is a funny rule to have, as that policy is so broad it could apply to anyone - even the folks trying to ask for evidence or clear up a bald-faced lie are called white knights. Are you in this just for the laughs? Fine. Whatever. So long as no one gets hurt (though I argue people still do get hurt). But if 'bullying the bullies' is to be applied, a greater deal of care should be taken. In my opinion.

In the film Django Unchained, probably my favourite Tarantino film, a phrase is oft-repeated by the slavers: "Keep it funny." It's always said towards the slaves or when someone is speaking loosely on how bad something is, and it's the idea that these slavers find it wholly uncomfortable to talk openly about what it is they're doing and the inhumanity of it. So they spout, "Keep it funny!" in order to hold up the lie. Calvin Candie states it while walking up to a runaway slave on his estate, whom he knows he's going to put to the death, but calling that out would bring up the lie that they all share: they're celebrating human misery.

I'm not going to be so daft as to compare you to white fucking slavers (though I'm sure some folks will!), but the idea of "keeping it funny" still holds some grain of truth as to what Kiwi Farms may or may not be. I won't assume to be the end-all arbitrator, I just want to ask questions. Why do many people on these forums act with so much disgust towards people debating the merits of your actions and the way in which they're handled? Is it because you're unwilling to test the merit of these actions under scrutiny? Or maybe it reveals something uncomfortable in you? Or maybe, even worse, you know you are in the right and think testing it is just a waste of time - one of the strongest stances a person can make, that is indicative of religious belief. I often see the words, "I couldn't read past this part," when people try to retort my opinions and thoughts.

Some food for thought. ♥ I love you all!

 

[Mesh Gear Fox]

Unadulterated autism

This may not be the best place for you. You don't exactly come to KF to have deep, philosophical discussions on the nature of society and human interaction (even though this is Deep Thoughts). We're just here to laugh at tards.

 

[Svirfneblin]

This may not be the best place for you. You don't exactly come to KF to have deep, philosophical discussions on the nature of society and human interaction (even though this is Deep Thoughts). We're just here to laugh at tards.

At least you are honest. But clearly some people view their actions as though they're bullying the bullies, which is where I draw contention.

Also, this is kind of.. double-think. Allowing a "Deep Thoughts" thread but also tossing aside someone willing to express their opinion, simply because it's against the grain? Hmmmn.

I'm not in this to get +Likes. Give me all the +Autistics you guys want. I haven't said anything offensive. I'll keep saying my opinion up until the day opposing views are banned from this forum.

 

[OtterParty]

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

and thats terrible

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

At least you are honest. But clearly some people view their actions as though they're bullying the bullies, which is where I draw contention.

Also, this is kind of.. double-think. Allowing a "Deep Thoughts" thread but also tossing aside someone willing to express their opinion, simply because it's against the grain? Hmmmn.

I'm not in this to get +Likes. Give me all the +Autistics you guys want. I haven't said anything offensive. I'll keep saying my opinion up until the day opposing views are banned from this forum.

Oh my God you thought I was serious.

I'm not going to tell you your text wall before the post I quoted was uncalled for. It was a Deep Thoughts thread. I'm sure people who actually want to debate will just ignore it, though, because in a sense you're right- they're insecure. But just so you know, people don't tend to post one-liner jokes for serious debate.

I'll be real with you because you exhibit the same kind of smug intellectual superiority people exhibit here and I love them, anyway. We have a lot of people with troll's remorse who are going to try to justify their actions online because they're regretful, or people who can only stomach some of KF and not all of it. This is fine and normal. You can see a shit ton of examples, above. Most of us, though, don't, because we know we don't need to. I have no idea if you're an "SJW", but one thing I do know about that crowd is that subtle combinations of serious-but-shitposting tend to fly over their heads. If so, that might explain why you were targeting some of the less serious responses. While it's true that deep thoughts is for "serious diecussion" nothing is ever totally serious here.

And if anything, my joke was not about us righteously taking on bullies- it was about how we're such assholes, we even bully the bullies.

On a side note I did lol at the idea you had a favorite scene in fucking Django Unchained. I'm disappointed you didn't make the comparison to the ancestors of mine Taratino so rudely and inaccurately portrayed for "art" however, I would have found it flattering.

 

[Svirfneblin]

Oh my God you thought I was serious.

I'm not going to tell you your text wall before the post I quoted was uncalled for. It was a Deep Thoughts thread. I'm sure people who actually want to debate will just ignore it, though, because in a sense you're right- they're insecure. But just so you know, people don't tend to post one-liner jokes for serious debate.

I'll be real with you because you exhibit the same kind of smug intellectual superiority people exhibit here and I love them, anyway. We have a lot of people with troll's remorse who are going to try to justify their actions online because they're regretful, or people who can only stomach some of KF and not all of it. This is fine and normal. You can see a shit ton of examples, above. Most of us, though, don't, because we know we don't need to. I have no idea if you're an "SJW", but one thing I do know about that crowd is that subtle combinations of serious-but-shitposting tend to fly over their heads. If so, that might explain why you were targeting some of the less serious responses. While it's true that deep thoughts is for "serious diecussion" nothing is ever totally serious here.

And if anything, my joke was not about us righteously taking on bullies- it was about how we're such assholes, we even bully the bullies.

On a side note I did lol at the idea you had a favorite scene in fucking Django Unchained. I'm disappointed you didn't make the comparison to the ancestors of mine Taratino so rudely and inaccurately portrayed for "art" however, I would have found it flattering.

I don't ignore the value of short statements. Even if they're trolling, I like to think about the implications of a statement. I freely, wholly admit that I'm a wordy asshole who likes to jerk off with my own text a bit more than I ought to, but I also like to make sure people know what I'm saying and where it's coming from. I just genuinely enjoy thinking about things to their logical conclusion, and understand that may be incongruous to the types of conversations being held on these forums.

My real, honest to goodness opinion is that the more trolling happens, the more Poe's Law comes into effect. You say, "You're Kiwi Farms." in response to people bullying the bullies, and I think: "Hmn. That could be misconstrued as trolling.. but people are giving it likes and agreements in large quantities. So while there are people who may be in on the joke, there may be an equal number of people who genuinely believe it. Ergo, it's probably worth talking about." We are who we present ourselves to be, and should be careful about what we present, afterall.

Your statement regarding Django Unchained is strange to me. If you're talking about your white ancestors, you're not wrong - slave historians can't find examples of mandingo fighting as presented in the film, based on a cursory google search, though they do not deny that it could have happened, as the Southern philosophy at the time was that anything goes. However, the point of presenting the mandingo fighting was that it was a complete scene that presented the views of slavers and slaves in as concise a fashion as possible, using brutality to make it strike home... because, in reality, the treatment of slaves was far more brutal.

If you're talking about your black ancestors, then the only thing that was out of character was the insane gunskills of Django. If you're talking about german dentists, well.. you have me there, I suppose. The point of bringing up the film was the statement of "keeping it funny", not the rest of it. I think the concept has merit to apply to other sections of society than just slavery.

 

[Mrs Paul]

STFU and get back on topic.

 

[Emperor Julian]

This page title reads like an alternate universe buzzfeed article.

As someone whose been a both of a victim and perpetrator I'd like to chime in on this (with apologies for powerleveling) . Actual bullying- not calling people a faggot online, peer pressure, group infighting or usual human bullshit is very very bad. You're talking about a 'power' differance so dramatic between two individuals and the stronger party abuses this to a disturbing degree.
We use the term bully but what you're usually talking about is low key abuse or torture such as beatings, social isolation, gaslighting, degradation via social attacks and other such evil shit, even sexual abuse is on the table when you get a full blown sadist/budding socipath vs the nerdy kid no one likes. You usually have limited options to defend yourself in such situations, authority figures can't really protect you effectively unless were talking about overt violence in a supervised enviroment and you're usually trapped in circumstance so can't simply avoid. It's hardly suprising that some young people commit when they've got a kicking scheduled somewhere in the day from people they're forced to be around and everyone treats you like your some sort of Chris-chan freak show. Not to mention fucked up horrorshows like Bosses bullying (not just being a cunt actual bullying) employee. The problem really shines in cultures where nobody gives a fuck like jail, scummy jobs and shitty working class school with 3rd rate teachers. It gets even worse when social media is used to co-ordinate attacks because teenagers are too dumb/weak to distinguish between the bullies IRL power vs their limited online power.

It's worth noting a lot of stuff child bully's do to other kids would end up having you put in a padded room if a grown up did it to another grown up, I recall an kid from my old school attempting suicide by drinking cleaning fluid because a load of kids from years above him had tied him to a rugby post and spat on him for about an hour, this sort of shit had been going on for months. He was 13 and dumb as shit so had no chance. I used to kick the shit out of other kids for my own amusement and I found that sickening. Their are even rumours of one of the kids pissing on him but I could never verify since they all contradicted each other to save their own hides.

On reflection my school was a massive shit-hole, no wonder I'm such an ass.
I don't think the question is if bullying is okay because it isnt, I think the better question (and one very relavent to us) is what qualifies as bullying.

 

[Lorento]

On reflection my school was a massive shit-hole, no wonder I'm such an ass.

You're also Welsh, which automatically means you should be bullied anyway.