Is Bullying even bad?

[Svirfneblin]

This page title reads like an alternate universe buzzfeed article.

As someone whose been a both of a victim and perpetrator I'd like to chime in on this (with apologies for powerleveling) . Actual bullying- not calling people a faggot online, peer pressure, group infighting or usual human bullshit is very very bad. You're talking about a 'power' differance so dramatic between two individuals and the stronger party abuses this to a disturbing degree.
We use the term bully but what you're usually talking about is low key abuse or torture such as beatings, social isolation, gaslighting, degradation via social attacks and other such evil shit, even sexual abuse is on the table when you get a full blown sadist/budding socipath vs the nerdy kid no one likes. You usually have limited options to defend yourself in such situations, authority figures can't really protect you effectively unless were talking about overt violence in a supervised enviroment and you're usually trapped in circumstance so can't simply avoid. It's hardly suprising that some young people commit when they've got a kicking scheduled somewhere in the day from people they're forced to be around and everyone treats you like your some sort of Chris-chan freak show. Not to mention fucked up horrorshows like Bosses bullying (not just being a cunt actual bullying) employee. The problem really shines in cultures where nobody gives a fuck like jail, scummy jobs and shitty working class school with 3rd rate teachers. It gets even worse when social media is used to co-ordinate attacks because teenagers are too dumb/weak to distinguish between the bullies IRL power vs their limited online power.

It's worth noting a lot of stuff child bully's do to other kids would end up having you put in a padded room if a grown up did it to another grown up, I recall an kid from my old school attempting suicide by drinking cleaning fluid because a load of kids from years above him had tied him to a rugby post and spat on him for about an hour, this sort of shit had been going on for months. He was 13 and dumb as shit so had no chance. I used to kick the shit out of other kids for my own amusement and I found that sickening. Their are even rumours of one of the kids pissing on him but I could never verify since they all contradicted each other to save their own hides.

On reflection my school was a massive shit-hole, no wonder I'm such an ass.
I don't think the question is if bullying is okay because it isnt, I think the better question (and one very relavent to us) is what qualifies as bullying.

I think a lot of the problems that stem out of school is that outside of school, parents and society as a whole have this fairytale-like belief that children are wonderful, amazing creatures of pure innocence, and can all hold hands together. As such, they put a huge amount of stipulations on the actions that authority figures inside of the school can take against a child, because there is a huge, huge pressure from parents to never treat their child as less than a perfect human being.

Which we should all realise by now that they certainly aren't.

I despise the "zero tolerance" policies that have been adopted by so many schools. It removes the depth and nuance of a situation, and makes authority figures afraid to act out of fear of upsetting the wrong parent.

A solution? I have no real clue as I'm no expert, but my gut tells me that schools are being steadily ad-hoc'd into being overblown hang-outs over time with learning and study being slowly driven away, as though it's not really that important. I've been considering an idea of a full-on contract being signed by parents when they enter their child into a school that may read something like..

"I hereby consign that by entering my child into this school, I hereby grant the school the freedom to act appropriately in the event that this child is disruptive to the academic and social activities of other children."

Private schools do this to an extent, and they have far fewer cases of bullying.. especially physical bullying. They have control over enrollment, the administrators set the rules, and they monitor kids like goddamn prisoners with internal camera circuits. You leave your freedom at the door - while you're on these grounds, you're here to learn and socialise and express yourself nonviolently.

 

[Caesare]

Private schools do this to an extent, and they have far fewer cases of bullying.. especially physical bullying. They have control over enrollment, the administrators set the rules, and they monitor kids like goddamn prisoners with internal camera circuits. You leave your freedom at the door - while you're on these grounds, you're here to learn and socialise and express yourself nonviolently.

Have you been to a private school? I ask this because I did from 2nd grade to 9th grade. Yes, there was still bullying, but not nearly to the extant that public schools did for the exact reasons you said, the administration has more control. I'm not old enough to have gone to schools where the nuns would beat you with rulers, but I do remember teachers, especially coaches, getting physical with students though they never went overboard, and it works.

But the camera thing though? Is this a thing now??? I've never went to a Catholic school that had cameras anywhere besides outside the high school I went to and only because it was in the middle of a pretty bad neighborhood. So the cameras weren't to monitor students, but to protect the school's students and teachers from having their cars broken into while everyone was in class.

Public schools here have metal detectors and actual cops, we had none of that, just a single private security guard who wasn't a member of law enforcement who monitored the grounds in case some rough types from the neighborhood decided to vandalize the property or attempt to break into someone's car.

They never treated the kids like "goddamn prisoners". That is complete nonsense. The cameras were for the school's protection and it also protected the school from the liability of having someone's property stolen.

In the film Django Unchained, probably my favourite Tarantino film, a phrase is oft-repeated by the slavers: "Keep it funny." It's always said towards the slaves or when someone is speaking loosely on how bad something is, and it's the idea that these slavers find it wholly uncomfortable to talk openly about what it is they're doing and the inhumanity of it. So they spout, "Keep it funny!" in order to hold up the lie. Calvin Candie states it while walking up to a runaway slave on his estate, whom he knows he's going to put to the death, but calling that out would bring up the lie that they all share: they're celebrating human misery.

Are you white?

 

[HG 400]

I like bullying.

 

[cuddle striker]

I'm always going to be a bully to fucking pedophiles, rapists, rich bags of dicks, and people who are abusing others for attention.

because fuck them.

I'll laugh at tism but I won't get rude about it. that stuff is just human quirks that are hilarious.

 

[_____]

Bullying someone for little to no reason is genuinely fucking stupid.
Now, if someone is truly like a fucked up individual, calling them out is the best choice of action to avoid something from happening.


those kids just shoot up the school though right

 

[Hummingbird]

I think a lot of yall are going into this with the predisposition that bullying is done from some inherent position of altruism. Usually, bullying is not.

Yes, it is someone picking on someone's eccentricities, but it's not done as a way of society to say, "Hey cut that shit out." Bullying is done in order to gain status for oneself at the expense of others, usually. It's more of a long term, psychological thing, it goes on and on. Bullying isn't really like, "Hey fat fuck! Yo you look like a 20 lb bag of shit, did your MOM dress you?" It's not just a one off fight, or even a fight every day with one specific dude. It's more manipulative, singling out one person and exploiting their weakness to meet your own goals or make yourself look better. I think in a way it's kind of like what people here might call "troll shielding".

Maybe Jeremy shit his pants at school one day. Obviously he's gonna get shit for it but the thing is, he probably didn't do it because he thought it was okay, and even if he did, after the initial ridicule, he probably wont do it again; but if it's not one thing, it's another. Now Jeremy has the reputation of a pants shitter, and kids arent gonna let that die. He's gonna go on to the next year and people are going to spread rumors, Jeremy the pants shitter tried to molest Nancy. Jeremy the pants shitter only bathes once a week! Even if Jeremy tries to fix all of his social eccentricities or bad habits, they're going to find something else to make fun of Jeremy for. And nobody wants to be associated with Jeremy, because of his reputation, he's socially isolated and nobody wants to get their hands dirty, nobody wants to be a part of that. Everybody bands together and they bolster each other up and they feel like they're all better than Jeremy and they have a sense of belonging, and a sense that they're part of the better group. They all elevate their own social status, especially with each other, through treating Jeremy like shit.

THAT's bullying. A person picks a target ahead of time, for whatever reason, they see someone weak and exploit them, using those avenues of "Well, so and so deserves it. Did you see what they did?" Bullying is vindictive, it goes beyond just pointing and laughing. There isn't really a purpose or an end goal of bullying, not necessarily a catalyst for why it continues, no rhyme or reason, there's not really even a grudge or vendetta; it's just people taking advantage of other people they deem weaker than themselves, to meet their own ends, or feel better about themselves. Eventually they will move on and find somebody else, or they will deal with their own issues, and grow out of it, but I dont think bullying is done as a way of social conditioning, inherently.

That said, I mean I dealt with some shit, nothing that I would call true "bullying" per my own definition, but a bunch of events that fall into the category of "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger". I think that's more along the lines of what you're calling bullying as social conditioning here, and in that aspect, I think it has its role and purpose. Everybody deals with that to some degree, and it does help shape you, build character, and define you. But vindictively dragging out someone's misery, mocking them, I dont think that helps them "learn" to not do whatever it is they did to get the treatment in the first place; it's just cruel.

EDIT: One last thought I have, I would say that trying to justify treating someone poorly as "social conditioning" skirts a little bit close to the "she was asking for it" argument. It's not one-to-one, but it's a slippery slope away. I have a few more thoughts but I sperged enough already, and they aren't really organized in my head anyway.

I definitely understand that. Some kids will just use any little mistake another kid makes to go after them (let's say you accidentally leave your instrument case out a little far and another one almost trips over it). As someone who'd subconsciously turn as white as a sheet when she had to go to school (being autistic didn't help), I can emphasize with the anti-bullying campaign.

Now that I think about it, I've noticed there are classes of bullies...

-Classical Bully: These are the kids who call you mean things and laugh at you.
-Physical Bully: Think Scott Farkcus (A Christmas Story). They will use psychical violence and intimidation to get their way.
-Sexual Harasser: These ones will say perverted things to you, draw dirty pictures, call you a slut when you're not one and if they're really vicious, start touching you inappropriately (like rubbing their leg against your ass and moaning while you're kneeling down to get something).
-The Back-Stabber: Will be your friend and treat you with kindness only start treating you like crap, pretend you don't exist or betray you in front of others the second your novelty wears off.
-Social Bully: This one will aim for your social standing by turning other class mates against you, spread rumors, try to humiliate you, etc. Arguably the most vicious, since they have friends/cronnies they can sic on you if you try to stand up to them.

 

[BadaBadaBoom]

My issue with bullying has never even been with the bully but with society for not letting you even get back at them in any meaningful way. I've known some really great people who have been practically forced to go to psychiatry to get over the trauma of not being able to beat the shit out of their tormentors without themselves getting all the blame.

 

[Un Platano]

Bullying either makes you cry or turns you jaded and bitter. The first one is funny and the second one is a lifestyle that lots already have come to accept, so I'd say no.

 

[El Porko Fako]

Bullying is really fucking annoying and it can go way too far sometimes, but if you face your fears and try to address the problem, I think it helps later in life with other situations that could be uncomfortable.

I remember I got bullied a couple times in middle school. My dad kept telling me that if I don't at least mouth off to them or push back a little, they're never going to respect you or leave you alone. I followed that advice and sure enough, hardly anyone messed with me. You might take some licks, but most school bullies are fucking pussies in my experience and it takes one good injury to them to never make them want to mess with you ever again.

If you want some good ol' fighting back stories here you go.

Spoiler: Story Time!

1. Two fucking assholes kept bullying me in math and kept calling me a pussy in Spanish and making hand gestures in my face. I dealt with this for a few weeks (had the dad talk around this time), until I just had enough one day and while one of them was making a hand gesture in my face, I pinned his arm against the wooden table and what I can only describe as yell whispered into his ear something really fucking awful, probably that I was going to kill them both and I was going to break the pinned kids arm. Luckily for me, the teacher was out getting some paperwork, but the whole class saw this shit show. Didn't hear a peep from those guys the rest of middle school and didn't make to many friends in that class, but I made my statement. They didn't even try jumping me after class.

2. I frequently played basketball during recess and lunch periods. One day, this fucking douche kept chucking the basketball at me while we were playing a pick-up game to get the ball out of bounds. He started aiming higher and higher, until he hit me in the head with the ball. So I roundhouse kicked him into a chain link fence and he dropped like a rock, crying on court. It was really awkward for the rest of the year, considering I had homeroom with him, but hey, he never told on me.