Is DIY Smokeless powder possible?

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There's plenty of kids out there who manage to blow off their fingers with organic peroxides and chlorate.
They can figure that out without someone holding their hand and spoonfeeding them info every step of the way.

If OP can't even do that, maybe he should stick to baking soda volcanoes for now, don't ya think ;)
>It's for your own safety, you should leave this inherently interesting and useful field to someone else.

Plenty of kids out there manage to drive into brick walls, or burn themselves on a stovetop. If there was a risk of him trying Armstrong's mixture - why would he be asking about smokeless powder? He'd probably be asking about how to make a chlorate, would he not?

If you were talking to a child you'd make sense - if you're talking like that to a grown ass man with a car, and a gun, because he didn't study Chemistry and wants to know an abridged version of things, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying "I won't tell you how to bake that scone, you shouldn't even try unless you have the appropriate chef's knowledge!"

You guys are retards, JStark included instructions on how to make both gunpowder and primer at home in your kitchen using ping pong balls, nitrile gloves, and car batteries.
What, where?
 
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The part where he tells you how to get ammunition in Europe, I'm not gonna post it because I don't have it, but you can find it easily.
Ah, I know the M.O. , and it's outdated.

There has been multiple waves of regulation in the EU targeting nitrate salts.
 
Hey, I got like 150 lbs of leftover urea and several car batteries I'm not using.
Oh you should keep the urea - mix say, 1kg in a big 5L tub and mix it with warm water, then use a hairdryer and a tube or some kind to keep it warm (like with alcohol) and aerated. You can make it more sophisticated by adding more, smaller tubs to separate each step.

If you know how to leech wood ash, that'd be useful - you'll want a potassium source to neutralise it. Leeched wood ash + Urea in a warm tub, pumped continuously with air.

It can take a while, but eventually, the urea will decompose into nitrate ions, and with the KOH from the wood ash, you wouldn't need to purify it further. I'm sure you can get the lion's' share of that done without guidance. There's a bunch more efficiency shit to do, though.
 
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Who first made smokeless and where did they source materials? Surely if some guy in the early 1900s accomplished it on a small scale, we could. Really the biggest question is how could you DIY nitric acid? From there gun cotton could be produced.
Ostwald process w/ Ammonia
4NH3 + 5O2 → 4NO + 6H2O 2NO + O2 → 2NO2 NO2 + H2O → HNO3
 
But why? If the apocalypse comes, you will be better off with black powder.

If it doesn't, you can get your ammo from Jamal and Cleatus.
 
If you really want to have !!FUN!! you could always look into making picric acid and shoving that into a DIY mortar shells

I hear its an exceptional substance for making shittons of fire
 
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Ostwald process w/ Ammonia
Yeah I'm not gonna avow that. That shit needs to be too hot, and uses high-pressure, high-temperature gases flammable gases with catalysts. Copper works but it's slightly below its fuckin melting point.

Ammonia readily oxidises via bacterial action, too - it's much better to go via urea, than the alternative.
 
Glycerol is a byproduct of biodiesel production
 
1) Buy a nitrocellulose laquer.
2) Add a few percent petroleum jelly.
3) Let the solvent evaporate.
4) Grind the solid remnant in a coffeemill or similar. Do this outside, where fine powder dust will not burn your house down.
5) Sieve the powder to get a uniform grain size. Regrind the bigger granules.
6) Don't expect great results.

Should you do it? Definitely no. But can it be done? I think so.
I've actually thought about that and was going to ask about lacquer.
 
It depends what your goal is. If you want to make some as an experiment without regard for things like purity and consistency, it's very possible. If you want to source your own powder for reloading, you'll die.
I don't think making the smokeless powder is really actually the hard part. It's all the other stuff like stabilizers and putting into a usable and stable form that won't cause fires and explosions that is the hard part.

Personally I think this is retarded I think it is easily possible given enough attempts but there isn't any practical reason to do so which is why basically no one does so. Just buy a fuck ton of smokeless powder for self reloading if you are really worried about it.

You aren't going to get the little small things right that humanity has learned to do over decades easily right especially if you don't have a chemist's background.
 
This thread was intended to be hypothesising over how you'd do it in a SHTF scenario but seems to have mostly attracted the kind of people who hold humanity back. Useless people who give up and say that even trying is retarded because they believe that if you're not a chemist with a factory it's impossible. No one mentioned gun cotton or any earlier, not perfect but good enough in a pinch solutions. Total waste.
 
Ah yes you have definitely come to the right place.

There's two, depending on your resources. If you have access to nitrates, like most Americans do, you can probably get sulphuric acid too. Salt metathesis reactions can be used to get hydrochloric and nitric acid from a salt - obviously, chloride and nitrate salts - by mixing it with sulphuric acid.

The sulphuric acid's SO4 ion switches places with the Cl or NO3 ion of the salt, producing a mixture. It's best to then distil that acid away in manageable quantities - hence, what kind of equipment can you actually use? If you don't have a distiller, there's still a huge difference in boiling points between sulphuric and HCl/HNO3, so you can still distil them - just make sure it's airtight.

Depending on how DIY you go - if you have the right skillset, you could probably go right to the beginning. That takes welding, forging, metalworking and glassblowing skills - but in its essence, you can make most shit from seawater, air and plants if you have enough energy.


>Americanisms

My great granddad fought at the Somme before he was old enough to drink. If you can expect people to breath mustard gas, then you can trust them to make it too.

DL is correct, it is entirely possible to do at home, one just needs the right equipment, a working understanding of basic inorganic and organic chemistry, and the willingness to accept that it is entirely possible you will explode yourself even if you do everything completely correct.
 
why not just concentrate your skillset on making high tension compound bows and crossbows? safer, quieter and probably more useful overall in a SHTF scenario.

If the goal is to make DIY ammo for an M60 so you can fight off invading platoons, then face it - you've already lost that scenario
 
DL is correct, it is entirely possible to do at home, one just needs the right equipment, a working understanding of basic inorganic and organic chemistry, and the willingness to accept that it is entirely possible you will explode yourself even if you do everything completely correct.
Yeah, emphasis on that working understanding. It's a bit like cooking, hence, slang term - Chemists develop the same kind of instinct you get with experience. You need to know what could go wrong and know exactly to expect at each step - so that you can respond to problems that arise.

It's all the other stuff like stabilizers and putting into a usable and stable form that won't cause fires and explosions that is the hard part.
There doesn't seem to be too much in the way of stabilisers in the mixtures - preventing accidental combustion is not gonna happen, which is why I suggest storing things as less volatile salts and producing what you need via salt metathesis.

As you may recall, I was trying to prototype a design. That whole ordeal, which I'm still working on, was how I ended up developing the fermentation method. Same issue I have with both - I don't have enough of a toolset to work with metal, and my heart is fucked so it's hard to get everything I need.

Shit's crazy from a European perspective - all of the regulations in Europe depend on restricting nitrates, and now I'm in the stupidest position. The only reason my method makes sense is if there's massive restrictions for it. So I can't do shit with it except continue development and hope that there's enough Americans who would like to brew gunpowder.

why not just concentrate your skillset on making high tension compound bows and crossbows? safer, quieter and probably more useful overall in a SHTF scenario.

If the goal is to make DIY ammo for an M60 so you can fight off invading platoons, then face it - you've already lost that scenario
Actually, the use of making your own bullets is to test out different compositions and bullet masses. The De Lisle carbine was quieter than a crossbow - and there are so many improvements to be made from the basic premise. It's a rifle which uses pistol rounds, a ported PCC/SMG barrel, with an integrated suppressor. You could get the same effect from a 9mm barrel, like the Schutzdaempfer - especially if you can rig the receiver to sap away a little bit of that pressure to keep the bullet subsonic.

Failing that, just use a different powder composition. I'm sure there's something inert you can add in to slow the burn a little bit.

No one mentioned gun cotton or any earlier, not perfect but good enough in a pinch solutions.
Gun cotton is what we're talking about - that's the other ingredient. The hard bit is that HNO3, which - you're right - isn't easy. It's pretty clear you've ended up at the same problem I had, so I posted my solution to it. So I could do with some replication.

Useless people who give up and say that even trying is retarded because they believe that if you're not a chemist with a factory it's impossible.
Oh I had the same dude talking similarly before. He's one of the uh, "indoor chemists"

That said - do not try the most efficient methods. The most commonly listed ones are usually the most common industrial methods - but the inside of the machines have higher pressures than the bottom of the ocean (hence, most of the world regulating exactly this chemical) and temperatures up to 1000C. The single most deadly industrial incident was letting Indians run a pesticide plant (Bhopa, ~16,000 dead) - shit isn't easy and it's built for maximum cost efficiency.

That goes double for what I'm assuming your username refers to - the dude who discovered nerve agents nearly got killed, multiple times, in the process. At no point should you try to work with gases. That's not because it's "impossible" - it's that there's a reason they have special labs for that, out in the middle of nowhere.

What sort of tools and equipment do you have at your disposal?
 
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