Is there a basis for anti-semitism?

Read what I wrote you retard nigger. I didn't say I "disbelieved" the holocaust, concentration camps were real. I just said that details about it were incorrect.


There was never an order given to mass-kill prisoners in camps. Written, verbal, or otherwise. We know this because we cracked the Enigma code in 1941 and were monitoring all German radio communcations through the majority of the war, and because after the war we captured their written paper records.


I said it was a real event, dipshit.


Facts regarding many of the details are not on your side, as I outlined in my previous post.


Because I am right, and if you bothered to read and understand what I said you would realize that.


I already made my point, not only on the holocaust but on every other subject of this discussion. It's pretty clear you can't make a counter-argument that doesn't fall back to calling me names, so I see no point in continuing this discussion,
I don't know what kind of ridiculous sophistry this is, "Yeah, I believe the Holocaust happened, but the Jews weren't systematically murdered in it." You deserve some kind of autism award for this horse shit. There's tons of evidence to prove the Final Solution was a real plan the Nazis enacted on their victims. Read a book, dude. You bought into bogus internet propaganda. Why do I have to entertain the fact you live in an alternate history?
 
Mothra, could you please do more than simply make bad faith arguments? Utilizing little more than ad hominem and slinging insults at others with discussion of a fairly sensitive subject is not going to make everyone come instantly to your viewpoint, if at all. So unless you want to be a little better than an ape flinging shit, please provide a better argument, if one at all.
 
"Yeah, I believe the Holocaust happened, but the Jews weren't systematically murdered in it."
Correct. Jews were discriminated against for years, culminating in the government forcing them into German labor camps, and then they starved along with the rest of Germany once the supply lines failed.
You deserve some kind of autism award for this horse shit. There's tons of evidence to prove the Final Solution was a real plan the Nazis enacted on their victims. Read a book, dude. You bought into bogus internet propaganda.
Take your own advice, and read two books about the Holocaust. One written before 1955, one written after 2015. Compare the inconsistences, see how many atrocity claims were dropped due to lack of evidence, then get back to me.

Why do I have to entertain the fact you live in an alternate history?
I could ask the same of you, lol.

I said this last reply but I'm saying it for real now. I've already made my point, its clear you have no real rebuttals, and you apparently are not interested in a good faith discussion, so unless you have a sudden change of temperament there is no point in continuing our little slapfight.
 
Mothra, could you please do more than simply make bad faith arguments? Utilizing little more than ad hominem and slinging insults at others with discussion of a fairly sensitive subject is not going to make everyone come instantly to your viewpoint, if at all. So unless you want to be a little better than an ape flinging shit, please provide a better argument, if one at all.
Correct. Jews were discriminated against for years, culminating in the government forcing them into German labor camps, and then they starved along with the rest of Germany once the supply lines failed.

Take your own advice, and read two books about the Holocaust. One written before 1955, one written after 2015. Compare the inconsistences, see how many atrocity claims were dropped due to lack of evidence, then get back to me.


I could ask the same of you, lol.

I said this last reply but I'm saying it for real now. I've already made my point, its clear you have no real rebuttals, and you apparently are not interested in a good faith discussion, so unless you have a sudden change of temperament there is no point in continuing our little slapfight.
If me not wanting to go down the rabbit hole of kooky Holocaust denial conspiracy theories where the Jews only starved and were never mass executed is "bad faith" than guilty as charged. If you want me to seriously engage with you, bring facts to the table. Why is it my job to prove verified historical events? Go Google stuff like Operation Reinhard and read up on the killing centers that were set up. Overall, there is no debate in scholarship about whether or not Jews were murdrred by Nazis in concentration camps. If you want to know where anti-semitism comes from, believing in lies like the ones @Certified_Autist is peddling would be a good start.
 
I'm not a male, you NeoGaf poster idiot. That sperg is mad at me because I argued with him in two threads over his idea that rape victims, including 10 year old kids, should be forced to give birth to their rapist's children, which I'm against because that's some sadist evil shit to do to a victim. He's been doing this for months with other posters, look at the comments on his profile.
Not a male? Well that's nice of you to confirm your status as a Twitter troon.
The Jews have no curse for killing Jesus, Catholic doctrine says they have a specific role by virtue of their rejection of him, if anything. There is really no reason to see in the Church the culprit of the persecutions, not even the moral one. There were saints who called them every name under the sun (St. John Crysostom anyone?) but the Church itself was always able to formulate a modus vivendi with a minority like this one. Granted, it was framed as a concession, but if you look at how religious minorities lived in Muslim countries, tolerance was also framed in these terms.
So the Church venerated antisemites as saints and held up them as model examples yet somehow bears no blame? That's a ridiculous argument to make.
Define European. Aside from living in Europe, that is. In my acception I meant it as belonging to a local national European culture like Italian, German, French, Russian and what have you, with their regional subidentities, but what even is European culture as a whole, taken in block? We know for a fact that Jews weren't French, German, Polish or whatever, then what were they?
Because no Jewish group is particularly different than their neighbors outside of being Jews and holding to the tenets of that religion which discourage assimilation and encourage ethnic superiority. I'd like to know how the Ashkenazim and Sephardim AREN'T European when their traditional culture was little different than the goyim they lived alongside in towns. If you carved out an Ashkenazi state in Poland or a Sephardi state in Spain, the people would share striking characteristics with their goyim neighbors. Just like how in many ways the Mizrahim Jews of Israel superficially resemble their Arab neighbors they lived aside.
Natural, I would say authentic behavior is human behavior not affected by state or para-state influence, behavior that isn't artificiously socially engineered.
The thing is, states always existed but their power has truly emerged with the first nation-states in the 19th century, this is when aspects like public education start shaping the mentalities of citizens as much as if not more than organic peer pressure, which has itself been swallowed by state influence.
It isn't that natural behavior has never existed, it's that it's been suppressed and continues to be suppressed proportionally to the growth of the state.
Anyway, I guess we're entering anarchist or even communist territory here.
Public education existed because 19th century liberalism sought to depower the church (or respective religious institutions in other countries). People have always emulated those in power over them because that's who controls their parents and makes sure they learn right. There's a vast wealth of examples throughout history of people emulating the elite or those the elite favored, like Chinese foot-binding for instance which was an elite custom at first which then was emulated by peasants. Archaeology can confirm this goes back to the Stone Age.
Reform Judaism is already an assimilated form of Judaism relative to Western values, what you want is assimilation on your own terms. Well, I have news for you, fam, Western 'ideology' is not going to change, and neither will the Jews of the diaspora with it.
Western ideology isn't going to change? Pretty bold assertion when the world in 2022 is hardly recognizable from the world even 15 years ago. Western ideology in 2022 is spreading "democracy" (vote the way NATO wants) and "human rights" (teaching kids the wonders of gay sex and transgenderism). That's barely Western ideology in 2007, let alone in 1907.
If me not wanting to go down the rabbit hole of kooky Holocaust denial conspiracy theories where the Jews only starved and were never mass executed is "bad faith" than guilty as charged. If you want me to seriously engage with you, bring facts to the table. Why is it my job to prove verified historical events? Go Google stuff like Operation Reinhard and read up on the killing centers that were set up. Overall, there is no debate in scholarship about whether or not Jews were murdrred by Nazis in concentration camps. If you want to know where anti-semitism comes from, believing in lies like the ones @Certified_Autist is peddling would be a good start.
I unironically believe 6 million Jews died (or maybe it was 6,000,001 or 5,999,999, I don't care, it was enough), including many who were murdered. But the Holocaust happened, deal with it. Jews would do well to take that lesson, because you don't get to trade 6 million Jews for 6 gorillion dollars (or however much they've been extorting from the West ever since) and nor should they have been able to trade them for ethnically cleansing Palestine. How fucked is that BTW, imagine letting 6 million of your countrymen die and using it as a tool for control and extortion, which is literally what the Holocaust is since once the socialist part of national socialism was purged Hitler was backed by the West as a tool against the Soviets (until 1939 that is).
 
Yeah it’s called hating something.
 
So the Church venerated antisemites as saints and held up them as model examples yet somehow bears no blame? That's a ridiculous argument to make.

Not particularly. Marx and Bakunin were both really harsh anti-Semites, and yet both communists and anarchists, the overwhelming majority of them, take turns at pitifully attempting to delegitimize each other calling out their founder's anti-Semitism as if their own guy was a paragon of racial integration.
The standard answer you get when you ask them "Did you know that your guy really hated Jews?" is "Yeah, well, different times, you gotta know the historical context since everyone back then was anti-Semitic" bla bla bla bla, without even realizing that their anti-Semitism wasn't merely prejudice, but ideological if you read their writiings, entirely coherent with their beliefs. You can't even give me the proletarian internationalism shtick against the German Jews of Marx's time simply because... they weren't proletarian.
Call this ignorance, call this hypocrisy if you want or cognitive dissonance, but people don't have to appreciate everything of their political or religious guides. We're naturally selective.

Because no Jewish group is particularly different than their neighbors outside of being Jews and holding to the tenets of that religion which discourage assimilation and encourage ethnic superiority. I'd like to know how the Ashkenazim and Sephardim AREN'T European when their traditional culture was little different than the goyim they lived alongside in towns. If you carved out an Ashkenazi state in Poland or a Sephardi state in Spain, the people would share striking characteristics with their goyim neighbors. Just like how in many ways the Mizrahim Jews of Israel superficially resemble their Arab neighbors they lived aside.

Speaking a medieval German dialect in a sea of Slavic speakers is no big deal? As a matter of fact, the Sephardim who were exiled from Spain were pretty queer among Arabs, Bulgarians and Greeks.

Public education existed because 19th century liberalism sought to depower the church (or respective religious institutions in other countries). People have always emulated those in power over them because that's who controls their parents and makes sure they learn right. There's a vast wealth of examples throughout history of people emulating the elite or those the elite favored, like Chinese foot-binding for instance which was an elite custom at first which then was emulated by peasants. Archaeology can confirm this goes back to the Stone Age.

This isn't emulation of the ruling class, though, but an active distillation of ruling class values into the population.
Which always happened, to be clear, a society's values were always its ruling class's, but where these values were once only accessible to educated people who enforced them on the rest of society to a degree, now through public education (and not just that, think television and every piece of media) they're shoved down the throats of everyone since childhood. 'Everything in the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state', society essentially lives by this maxim which is the maxim of every totalitarian regime that's existed in the 20th century. If you could once escape by virtue of ignorance and lack of education, you can't now that education is weaponized to turn everyone into a 'model citizen', all under the guise of giving life skills it really doesn't even provide, because it isn't even the point.
The expansion of its services and technological advancements have made it the owner of the souls of billions, while before this its power relied at worst in levying taxes from your trade or forcing you into the army when at war. It's one thing if the state rules through force, but if it dominates the culture as well, if it rules through consent and even approval of the governed, if even apparent anti-state ideologies end up just regurgitating the state's line, you should begin to worry because it means there's no way out of it, because people literally can't conceive a world that's different from the one they're living.
You're really not seeing the full picture here, and how horrible it is for our free will. And I really don't find it desirable to do the same if 'us' end up in charge, this is just something abominable to do to millions.

Western ideology isn't going to change? Pretty bold assertion when the world in 2022 is hardly recognizable from the world even 15 years ago. Western ideology in 2022 is spreading "democracy" (vote the way NATO wants) and "human rights" (teaching kids the wonders of gay sex and transgenderism). That's barely Western ideology in 2007, let alone in 1907.

What we're living didn't emerge from a vacuum, it's the result of specific conditions. There was no change, my dude, only an evolution, I would argue a controlled and intended degradation.
There's really not going to be a change, not the way you want it because the ruling ideology will just keep affirming itself over and over. It's only going to get worse because the roots themselves are terrible.
No 180 is going to save your children.
 
There are many angles one could explore this from, but to put it simply, the jews despise Gentiles (especially Whites). Their culture makes this very clear if you know where to look. "Anti-semitism" is really just a reaction to jewish influence.

The jews are smart enough, they know what they are doing. The results are features, not bugs. It pleases them when White toddlers are crucified to tables by marxist blacks drunk on talmudic hatred, or when Americans overdose on (((oxycontin))). Normal people dislike child murder and opioid epidemics. So eventually, they wake up and react.
 
Riddle me this. Who preaches for open borders but is surrounded by walls?
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For everybody who thinks the Jewish people think their in some sort of racial death match aganist the Goyim. Then why are the intermarriage rights so high? like the majority of Jews marry outside the tribe in America.
 
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If the holocaust had actually happened, jews would just be the most ungrateful people to ever exist. We saved them from extinction and they have zero gratitude for it?

Or they lied about it and they are exceptionally evil, pretending to suffer atrocities for personal gain at a large scale.

Either way they are subhuman scum.
That's one thing I've always found so funny about the holohoax. If you assume their narrative about it is true, it's almost worse because then they've spent the past 80+ years shiting on the people who died en masse to save them on places like the beaches of Normandy.


The hilarious thing is we actually have a long-ass holocaust thread here, and some extremely ardent proponents of the holocaust narrative, and despite that, none of them have ever been able to post anything which actually proves any of their claims beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
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For everybody who thinks the Jewish people think their in some sort of racial death match aganist the Goyim. Then why are the intermarriage rights so high? like the majority of Jews marry outside the tribe in America.
IIRC the Jews were historically pretty exogamous, they often married outside of their tribes. There were a lot of advantages to that, marriage ties have always been a great way to prevent a war and unite territories.

So much so that most Jews now have little or no Semitic ancestry (exceptions being the Mizrahi and some Sephardic Jews).
 
IIRC the Jews were historically pretty exogamous, they often married outside of their tribes. There were a lot of advantages to that, marriage ties have always been a great way to prevent a war and unite territories.

So much so that most Jews now have little or no Semitic ancestry (exceptions being the Mizrahi and some Sephardic Jews).
Where did you get this from? Jews are more likely to have diseases like Tay-Sachs due to a population bottleneck.
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There was intermarriage with Meds/Italians, that's why some Sicilians look similar.
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Pic rel is a southern Italian.
Generally, it's pretty easy to tell Jews apart unless they're Slavic larpers who maybe had one kosher grandparent.
Now that intermarriage is way higher, according to the studies that Jews are supposedly more intelligent, they should theoretically become less so by marrying the dumb goyim. Or you come to the conclusion that it has to do more with class than genetics.
 
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Where did you get this from? Jews are more likely to have diseases like Tay-Sachs due to a population bottleneck.
View attachment 3844863
There was intermarriage with Meds/Italians, that's why some Sicilians look similar.
View attachment 3845025
Pic rel is a southern Italian.
Generally, it's pretty easy to tell Jews apart unless they're Slavic larpers who maybe had one kosher grandparent.
Now that intermarriage is way higher, according to the studies that Jews are supposedly more intelligent, they should theoretically become less so by marrying the dumb goyim. Or you come to the conclusion that it has to do more with class than genetics.

To add a little graph on interfaith marriage rates:

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Not a lot of nice charts that I can find. That's the problem with stats and figures, someone needs to go out there and collect the data and it it doesn't seem like anyone was going that more than a century ago.
But it does seem like the US Jews love intermarrying a lot more than the British or Canadian Jews.
 
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A good example of why Jews are hated is Christianity & Muslims in Asia and Africa.

In Asia Christians became a merchant class that quickly worked together to become extremely influential. From Vietnam to Japan small cliques of Christians took over the place by collaborating with overlords. Despite being banned for centuries Christians still survived in Japan and became influential in the 19th-20th century through working together. In Africa and China Muslims became the merchant class and got the same influence and treatment as Jews. A Chinese Muslim was the last ROC Minister of defense during its tenure on the mainland and Chinese Muslims were the last holdouts during the civil war.

The difference is that Judaism is a hard religion to join. These groups eventually lost their influence or had it diminished through growing the religion.. or are still influential and a source of conspiracy theories like in Japan.
Also, most of these expelling countries were small German duchies looking for free cash or colonized countries where Jews were the merchant class that collaborated with occupiers.
 
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