Jacob Stuart Harrison Storytelling Thread - FSTDT Forums Ex-Pet Lolcow

[MW 590]

I get that you're a troll, but you can do better than this. It must have been God's will that the Catholic Church took such a beating over the next few centuries and then got relegated into irrelevance with the worldwide sex scandals.



Which shows God doesn't really have a hand in it, and Monarchy rests on that or the claim that might makes right. But even if we do accept the theory that a God is involved and does have chosen favourites if God has chosen favourites, we must accept Elizabeth II is legitimate as she rests unchallenged and undefeated. If might makes right, Elizabeth II remains legitimate too.



Now you're in a catch twenty-two. Harold's oath to William was taken under pressure while he was held hostage in Normandy according to you. Therefore Pius VII's oath to Bonaparte was likewise also taken while he was held hostage must also be.

Sacramental Christianity (Orthodox and Catholic) does not have the same provisions as the secular legal system in the UK and US that a promise made under pressure isn't valid. It most certainly is, that's why people are expected to embrace martyrdom rather than lie about their faith.

1. Well God permits sin to happen because he doesn't want to interfere with people's free will so he allowed for sinful people to overthrow rightful kings, start the Protestant Reformation and later the Enlightenment that caused a decline in religion.

2. Monarchy often rests on the principle of legitimacy which who has the right bloodline unless there is a usurpation that changes the dynasty. But afterwards, the heirs to the old dynasty often fought to regain their thrones like how the Bourbon heirs fought to get their thrones restored. So might does not make right.

3. The difference is that Harold Godwinson's oath was a sacred oath on holy relics while the coronation of Napoleon was a coronation, not a religious oath.

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

1. Well God permits sin to happen because he doesn't want to interfere with people's free will so he allowed for sinful people to overthrow rightful kings, start the Protestant Reformation and later the Enlightenment that caused a decline in religion.

In other words your God; being all-knowing and all-powerful created a world in which it would inevitably fall into what he considers to be "darkness" and would lead to the damnation of all of humanity to follow.

You're not painting him in the best light with that line of thought.

2. Monarchy often rests on the principle of legitimacy which who has the right bloodline unless there is a usurpation that changes the dynasty. But afterwards, the heirs to the old dynasty often fought to regain their thrones like how the Bourbon heirs fought to get their thrones restored. So might does not make right.

Which branch of the House of Borbon are we talking about? France and Austria haven't retaken their respective thrones, and Spain is on the way out too.

Also the strongest thrones in regards to their political stability in modern times; those of Sweden, England and Japan...None of them are Catholic. More interestingly the worlds oldest continious institution (The Japanese throne) isn't even Christian.

Very telling.

I also found your appeal to "the traditional religion of England" to be rather weak, since as we know the Germanic pagan religion was still strong in Northern Europe there well before and after the first millenium.

Celtic, Norse and Germanic paganism all have stronger claims as the "traditional" religion of England.

3. The difference is that Harold Godwinson's oath was a sacred one on holy relics while the coronation of Napoleon was a forced crowning.

Sacramentals are not magic talismans. It doesn't matter if he said it in the presence of a whore or the Virgin Mary, an oath is an oath on these matters.

Napoleon was crowned in the name of God by the successor of Peter. He was valid. The Vatican has never denied this.

 

[Red Hood]

Without a farcical aquatic ceremony there's no way to test this claim for sure.

 

[XYZpdq]

I bet it's hard to get a King license over there.

 

[AnOminous]

I just find it kind of amusing because here nobody seems to actually identify as British, they always seem to lead with "I'm half/quarter/eighth [insert nationality of choice here] first and foremost.

They have been entirely cucked out of their heritage and are ashamed to be British.

 

[Red Hood]

How many in line to the throne is the Burger King?

 

[GentlemanFaggot]

Monarchists are mentally stunted subhumans who should have gone extinct centuries ago.

 

[Francis E. Dec Esc.]

"I am at the moment writing a lengthy indictment against our century. When my brain begins to reel from my literary labors, I make an occasional cheese dip." - Ignatius J. Reilly

 

[dunbrine47]

I wonder the outcome if OP and autisticdragonkin were locked in the same room.

 

[Tempest]

@Jacob Harrison will you undo The American Revolution? Are you suggesting that England be set up as a theocratical monarchy? What will happen to Protestants and other religions?

 

[DNJACK]

The british throne now legally and rightfully to Xi Ching of China after the rightful heir lost the throne during a drunk poker game.

Check your facts.

 

[GentlemanFaggot]

"I am at the moment writing a lengthy indictment against our century. When my brain begins to reel from my literary labors, I make an occasional cheese dip." - Ignatius J. Reilly

God, Toole really nailed lolcows. Maybe he killed himself because he had a vision of this board in the future.

 

[MW 590]

In other words your God; being all-knowing and all-powerful created a world in which it would inevitably fall into what he considers to be "darkness" and would lead to the damnation of all of humanity to follow.

You're not painting him in the best light with that line of thought.

He intended the world to be perfect but the first evolved modern humans Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil causing humanity to be cursed with original sin. But to save humanity, he sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins so that whoever accepts Jesus as their lord and savior, do good works, and do penance for sins can be saved.

Which branch of the House of Borbon are we talking about? France and Austria haven't retaken their respective thrones, and Spain is on the way out too.

Also the strongest thrones in regards to their political stability in modern times; those of Sweden, England and Japan...None of them are Catholic. More interestingly the worlds oldest continious institution (The Japanese throne) isn't even Christian.

Very telling.

1. There was the Bourbon Restoration after the Napoleonic Wars that lasted till the July Revolution of 1830 when they were replaced by the House of Orleans.
2. Most Catholic monarchies have fallen because it was Satan's plan to destroy Catholic monarchies and cause the decline of Catholicism in those countries.

I also found your appeal to "the traditional religion of England" to be rather weak, since as we know the Germanic pagan religion was still strong in Northern Europe there well before and after the first millenium.

Celtic, Norse and Germanic paganism all have stronger claims as the "traditional" religion of England.

But those religions are from before England became a nation. When England became a nation in 927, most of the Anglo Saxons were Catholic.

Sacramentals are not magic talismans. It doesn't matter if he said it in the presence of a whore or the Virgin Mary, an oath is an oath on these matters.

Napoleon was crowned in the name of God by the successor of Peter. He was valid. The Vatican has never denied this.

The fact that other Catholic powers such as Austria did not recognize Napoleon, means that even other Catholics didn't think that the Pope had the legitimate power to crown a new monarch in place of an older dynasty.

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

He intended the world to be perfect but the first evolved modern humans Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil causing humanity to be cursed with original sin. But to save humanity, he sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins so that whoever accepts Jesus as their lord and savior, do good works, and do penance for sins can be saved.

Yes, he sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself in order to save us all from all the horrible things he's going to do to us because he's incapable of forgiveness and resorts to vengence.

1. There was the Bourbon Restoration after the Napoleonic Wars that lasted till the July Revolution of 1830 when they were replaced by the House of Orleans.

Which took over by conquest, until they themselves were cast down. Not selling royal succession all that well here fella.

2. Most Catholic monarchies have fallen because it was Satan's plan to destroy Catholic monarchies and cause the decline of Catholicism in those countries.

So Satan, who was damned for defying God is....Doing God's work by choice?

But those religions are from before England became a nation. When England became a nation in 927, most of the Anglo Saxons were Catholic.

They were pagans for the most part. Outside the cities, most of Northern Europe wasn't firmly in the fold until the Catholic parish system had been laid. We know this because Temples to Germanic/Anglo-Saxon deities such as Wyrd/Urd were active as late as 1200.

The fact that other Catholic powers such as Austria did not recognize Napoleon, means that even other Catholics didn't think that the Pope had the legitimate power to crown a new monarch in place of an older dynasty.

Actually, Napoleon's second wife was no other than Marie-Louise; an Austrian Archduchess (The closest British equivalent would be a Princess) and daughter of the Emperor Francis II of Austria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise,_Duchess_of_Parma

All the powers of Europe eventually recognised Napoleon, even Switzerland (or the Helvetic republic as it was known for a short time after it was annexed by France). With a singular exception to Britan funnily enough.

Once Napoleon gave the Catholic Church sanction to operate again in France, it became very much pro-Napoleon. Which made sense, he gave it back some authority; and he'd have kicked them senseless if they'd refused.

Which again, says nothing good about the hand of your deity in this.

 

[MW 590]

@Jacob Harrison will you undo The American Revolution? Are you suggesting that England be set up as a theocratical monarchy? What will happen to Protestants and other religions?

I will not undo the American Revolution because I am American so I support their revolution against the evil illegitimate King George III. Protestants and other religions will have rights, but Catholicism will be the main religion of England just like the Church of England is the main religion today.

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

I will not undo the American Revolution because I am American so I support their revolution against the evil illegitimate King George III. Protestants and other religions will have rights, but Catholicism will be the main religion of England just like the Church of England is the main religion today.

The state religion may still be Anglicanism, but most British people are "Nones".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-no-religion-british-social-attitudes-survey

They're not all Atheists and most do believe in the supernatural and things like the afterlife, but they're not Christians. The Church of England hasn't been the main religion for decades. Catholicism has more adherants here, but most of them are immigrants or the children of them.

For the British people, not counting the Polish and Muslims who are very religious, very few actually practice the faith they claim to follow, only 2% of those who claim membership of the Church of England actually attend Church services.

Americans take far more interest in religion than Europeans do OP.

 

[Aperrentis]

The English monarchy has been illegitimate since King John's submission to Papal authority in 1213.

 

[MW 590]

Yes, he sent himself to sacrifice himself to save us all from all the horrible things he's going to do to us.

We deserve those horrible things because we are sinners, so Christ's sacrifice is a great act of mercy.

Which took over by conquest, until they themselves were cast down. Not selling royal succession all that well here fella.

Well after the House of Bourbon was overthrown in 1830, there were those called the "Legitimists" that argued that they should be restored to the throne and there are still legitimists today. However I know that the rightful heir to the English throne is the rightful heir to France's throne because of England's claim to the French throne back in the 1300s.

So Satan, who was damned for defying God is....Doing God's work by choice?

Satan's work of overthrowing Catholic monarchies was not God's work.

They were pagans for the most part. Outside the cities, most of Northern Europe wasn't firmly in the fold until the Catholic parish system had been laid. We know this because Temples to Germanic/Anglo-Saxon deities such as Wyrd/Urd were active as late as 1200.

While it is true that it took a long time for Catholicism to be firmly established, it was the Scandinavians that were the last to convert. The Wikipedia article on the Christianisation of Anglo-Saxon England says that England became mostly Christian by the 7th century. So by 927, the majority of the English were Christian.

"The decisive shift to Christianity occurred in 655 when King Penda was slain in the Battle of the Winwaed and Mercia became officially Christian for the first time. The death of Penda also allowed Cenwalh of Wessex to return from exile and return Wessex, another powerful kingdom, to Christianity. After 655, only Sussex and the Isle of Wight remained openly pagan, although Wessex and Essex would later crown pagan kings. In 686 Arwald, the last openly pagan king was slain in battle and from this point on all Anglo-Saxon kings were at least nominally Christian (although there is some confusion about the religion of Caedwalla who ruled Wessex until 68.

Lingering paganism among the common population gradually became English folklore."

Actually, Napoleon's second wife was no other than Marie-Louise; an Austrian Archduchess (The closest British equivalent would be a Princess) and daughter of the Emperor Francis II of Austria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise,_Duchess_of_Parma

All the powers of Europe eventually recognised Napoleon, even Switzerland (or the Helvetic republic as it was known for a short time after it was annexed by France). With a singular exception to Britan funnily enough.

Once Napoleon gave the Catholic Church sanction to operate again in France, it became very much pro-Napoleon.

Well that was because Napoleon conquered much of the powers of Europe and established client states in their place until he was defeated and the old order was restored in 1815.

 

[DrJonesHat]

Being king only counts if everyone recognizes your authority. It doesn't matter if you get declared king, if nobody cares you have no authority. What would happen is you'd trigger a civil war and get shanked, then the monarchy would be abolished.

 

[MarineTrainedTard]

The way most Catholics have explained it to me, the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He's not divine in and of himself, but basically what he says is practically the word of God. So the way most Catholics would tell it, God Himself, via his agent the Pope, appointed Napoleon leader. Therefore he is the rightful ruler because the agents of God's church said so.



And just fucking LOL "this nation I am not a citizen of should do this. Oh, me live there? No, I'll stay here in America."