Karl Marx is a idiot

Angry Shoes said:
Bingo. If you're in any non-shithole country worrying about a Marxist takeover is just as retarded as worrying about Fascism. It's a chicken little the-sky-is-falling delusion peddled by partisan media outlets to keep their voterbase scared enough to show up to the polls every election cycle.
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I've been noticing these 'beliefs' since the mid 2010's. You know what it reminds me of? how the retards in the 2000's used to say everyone in the U.S would be living under Sharia law after a Muslim takeover.

I suppose these fears were stirred because of the Iraq war and 9/11 back then. But I can't for the life of me understand what has prompted the ''Marxist'' takeover worries. There is literally no such evidence to suggest that's what we're headed for.
 
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Sweetpeaa said:
I've been noticing these 'beliefs' since the mid 2010's. You know what it reminds me of? how the retards in the 2000's used to say everyone in the U.S would be living under Sharia law after a Muslim takeover.

I suppose these fears were stirred because of the Iraq war and 9/11 back then. But I can't for the life of me understand what has prompted the ''Marxist'' takeover worries. There is literally no such evidence to suggest that's what we're headed for.
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The belief that the US is in imminent danger of being taken over by Marxist dates back to at least the 1940s, hence why the Hollywood Blacklist was a thing for so long. It just drifted out of the mainstream after the USSR imploded, until the mid-late Obama era.
 
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Marx Is a complex figure, I agree with him on some of his principles, and he had unique ideas and was somewhat? intelligent considering the prolificness and Impact his writings left on the political landscape. But he is indisputably responsible for an enormous amount of suffering from murderous dipsshits who took his ideas and fucked their own nations to kingdom come. Whether or not he intended to do, it does seem like he was absolutely a bit of a douchebag and narcissistic bullshitter to some degree, so I can’t fully support him.
 
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Sweetpeaa said:
I've been noticing these 'beliefs' since the mid 2010's. You know what it reminds me of? how the retards in the 2000's used to say everyone in the U.S would be living under Sharia law after a Muslim takeover.

I suppose these fears were stirred because of the Iraq war and 9/11 back then. But I can't for the life of me understand what has prompted the ''Marxist'' takeover worries. There is literally no such evidence to suggest that's what we're headed for.
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As an idiot who knows nothing about historical politics, maybe I can explain.

To me "marxism" just means "collectivism". You personally have nothing, you are nothing, you live for the collective, you have only as much as everyone else does. I'm assuming based upon how you're talking that my assumptions are incorrect, but concepts like "communism", "socialism", "marxism", "collectivism", all the various liberal-associated isms, all blend together and to many people aren't even worth examining. You're pro entropy. End of story.

And if you don't understand where fear of collectivism come from, there's probably something wrong with you. Here, read the unabomber's manifesto, specifically the bit about the psychology of modern leftism:

Prophetic Spirit said:
You know, good question, just like your pfp counterwise.
I can't take you seriously, but made a fair point about Marx.
Man, if is the same people who uses Che Guevara shirts when going to fag marches... is basically humans wasting oxygen.
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Esta una idiota, el avatar de Corpun es precioso. Le gusta mi bulge. Me encanto.
Si vas a estar en un sito engles comprenda como hablar correcto en engles, hispano.
 
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thegooddoctor said:
Marx Is a complex figure, I agree with him on some of his principles, and he had unique ideas and was somewhat? intelligent considering the prolificness and Impact his writings left on the political landscape. But he is indisputably responsible for an enormous amount of suffering from murderous dipsshits who took his ideas and fucked their own nations to kingdom come. Whether or not he intended to do, it does seem like he was absolutely a bit of a douchebag and narcissistic bullshitter to some degree, so I can’t fully support him.
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Why blame him? You said yourself "he is indisputably responsible for an enormous amount of suffering from murderous dipsshits who took his ideas and fucked their own nations to kingdom come." How is he responsible? His ideas? Are we policing thoughtcrime now? Blame Lenin, Stalin, etc. They killed some motherfuckers. Marx didn't, he didn't even hand them a loaded gun. He wrote about economics, some good (alienation of labor) some bad (Labor theory of value). Then he died in the 1880s and would be less known to us than, for instance, Horace Greeley but for Lenin in 1917.
 
Nothing written says absolute shitheels can't make history. Ol Karl was just one of many examples.

At least he was in the right about gun control. "Any attempt to seize weapons or ammunition from the workers must be frustrated at every turn."
 
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The only 19th Century economist anybody should give a shit about, besides Henry George obviously, is Thorstein Veblen (conspicuous consumption)

Hated everybody, viewed modern society like an anthropologist views some disgusting savages in the jungle, planted a beehive in a farmers soil to watch him accidentally plow into it

Was a weird awkward sigma male that women couldn’t help but get horny, constant affairs

Showed up to an interview at the University of Chicago wearing a coonskin cap, got the job because the department chair was amazed at his big dick eccentric energy

Refused to get any job except the one he wanted, leeched off his family into his mid thirties like a badass


Veblen is my spirit animal and my career role model and it’s not fair that we don’t live in a world where Veblenism is the dominant ideology of the 20th Century
 
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It's weird that people don't talk about Engels as much, considering he was the actually sociable and emotionally intelligent side of the commie duo. He was the one that actually bothered to go meet the workers and see how things were for them. Marx had some interesting ideas, his theories about alienation and the nature of man were pretty out there for the 1800's. But yeah communism is dumb.
 
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Perhaps the most fascinating thing about Karl Marx is that the majority of his most fervent critics don't appear to have actually read anything he wrote. They'll point out that his name is heavily associated with the deprivations of communism, but very rarely do they ever engage with the question of how much this association is truly justified, let alone seriously consider the merits of any of the ideas he put forward.

Marx was, by all accounts, a deeply flawed man, and many of his ideas were too, but it's still difficult not to notice the dearth of intellectual honesty among many of his critics, and it's doubly difficult not to notice the ease at which much of the vitriol his name inspires can be traced back to the enduring strength of American propaganda (first by the state; then later by wealthy press barons). It's almost as if the man might've been onto something.
 
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I think one thing worth remembering was that a lot of Marx's writings came in response to the societal issues in Victorian London, which had some of the most glaring "fuck the poor" mentality going on anywhere since the Industrial Revolution. I disagree pretty strongly with Marx on just about every count, but I can sorta see where he was coming from with them.
 
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Hellbound Hellhound said:
Perhaps the most fascinating thing about Karl Marx is that the majority of his most fervent critics don't appear to have actually read anything he wrote. They'll point out that his name is heavily associated with the deprivations of communism, but very rarely do they ever engage with the question of how much this association is truly justified, let alone seriously consider the merits of any of the ideas he put forward.
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Papa Pizzaria said:
neither have his followers.
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As someone who has read a lot of Marx and Engels in High School and early college (before STEM classes/lab research sapped all my free time and energy away from those follies), this is 100% true. I am no longer Marxist-leaning, but it’s unfair to ignore some of the ideas he had (or copied/compiled from different thinkers into one package), such as dialectical materialism and how economic/material needs drive much of human history. He does tend to ignore the economic concept of scarcity, which is why (among other things) every so-called Marxist state has been inconsistent and a failure.

He also downplays human nature in economic systems (again, he was a hardcore materialist that I speculate was a reaction to more idealist/spiritualist thinking at the time). I mean, he WAS influenced by Hegel. The ultra-materialist mindset is useful for understanding the “wagey-cagey” meme, which Marxists call “wage slavery” and it’s dehumanizing aspects. The industrial revolution and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race, or at least in terms of treating workers like robots. Marx was actually okay with the goods and standard of living increases industrialization provided though (minor aside, I respect you Uncle Ted, but full-on primitivism is just retarded). The cosmic irony of all this is that Marxism really only works as written if humans acted like the robots Marx criticized Capitalism of creating! Insert joke about NPCs here.

One thing I gathered from my reading is that the only society that ever got remotely close to how Marx and Engels wrote about a socialist state was President Eisenhower’s America (that’s a hot take that pisses off pro- and anti- Marxists to no end — the meltdowns are delicious). People point to the Paris Commune, but Marx disagreed with them (I think he was even quoted something like “if this is what is considered Marxism, then I’m not a Marxist”). In all honesty, he probably disagreed with everyone trying to repeat his socialist ideas like the partially senile grumpy and dirty old man he was.

I always had a joke (that I can’t say in academic circles anymore) that anti-racists and racists are the people who understand race the least. I think it’s the same with Marx and Marxism.
 
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Hellbound Hellhound said:
Perhaps the most fascinating thing about Karl Marx is that the majority of his most fervent critics don't appear to have actually read anything he wrote.
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To be fair this is also a big (and less acceptable imo) problem with a good chunk of his fervent supporters too. At most they'll skim the manifesto (get one with a foreword, my copy is like 90% foreword giving historical and biographical context) or das kapital and call it a day. But yes you are correct, and it's incredibly annoying that so few people actually want to have a real discussion beyond "if ur commie how come u own things checkmate pinko"
 
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Uberpenguin said:
As an idiot who knows nothing about historical politics, maybe I can explain.

To me "marxism" just means "collectivism". You personally have nothing, you are nothing, you live for the collective, you have only as much as everyone else does. I'm assuming based upon how you're talking that my assumptions are incorrect, but concepts like "communism", "socialism", "marxism", "collectivism", all the various liberal-associated isms, all blend together and to many people aren't even worth examining. You're pro entropy. End of story.
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Collectivism is not a real thing that you can distinguish from other models, nor is individualism. They are little more than talking points used in writing cringey dystopian novels ("you will be tortured to death for referring to yourself with a singular pronoun", etc.) All people and all existent political models are a mixture of both.
 
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Marx was a perpetual couch surfer who mooched off the Capitalists he so hated in his writings, it's a genuine wonder his work took off at all, and when it did it was the worst possible people running the show. In russia it was asshole university students and social rejects who even before the leninist/stalinist purges were always fucking arguing about who was a "true communist." In china it was the craziest fucking people in the sphere of people who hated the old imperial system, and once they took power they immediately made something worse, because at least people were being fed when the emperor was in charge. In vietnam Ho Chi Minh was probably the most reasonable communist idol there has been, who hadn't drank the kool-aid so much as to honestly believe in "ideological brotherhood." He knew full well the chinese would come knocking as soon as their civil war wrapped up even if the communists won, so he tried his very best to court America into an alliance. Of course once he got sick his generals took charge, and immediately went about doing the exact same shit mao and stalin did because they HAD drank the Kool-Aid, so all in all communism has had exactly one honest shot at actually assembling a system worth a shit, and even then they fucked it.
 
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HarryHowler said:
I think one thing worth remembering was that a lot of Marx's writings came in response to the societal issues in Victorian London, which had some of the most glaring "fuck the poor" mentality going on anywhere since the Industrial Revolution. I disagree pretty strongly with Marx on just about every count, but I can sorta see where he was coming from with them.
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This is why I feel arguing over these 19th century and 20th century figures like Marx or even Hitler is at the end of the day pointless, the past is the past, what we should be focused on is the present.

What we call Marxism today, whatever connection is has to what Marxism was in the 1800s, is just shorthand for what's more commonly called Wokeism, which is a very 21st century mindset and the destructiveness of which is already self evident to any thinking person, so arguing over 1800s era philosophy doesn't really have much relevance, because even if Marx hadn't written anything, we'd still see this attitude today, they would just use some other justification.

Uberpenguin said:
As an idiot who knows nothing about historical politics, maybe I can explain.

To me "marxism" just means "collectivism". You personally have nothing, you are nothing, you live for the collective, you have only as much as everyone else does. I'm assuming based upon how you're talking that my assumptions are incorrect, but concepts like "communism", "socialism", "marxism", "collectivism", all the various liberal-associated isms, all blend together and to many people aren't even worth examining. You're pro entropy. End of story.

And if you don't understand where fear of collectivism come from, there's probably something wrong with you. Here, read the unabomber's manifesto, specifically the bit about the psychology of modern leftism:
Click to expand...
There is an irony here that these collectivists are also hardcore narcissists, but it isn't too hard to understand, what are you if you're just George Lee? But if you're George Lee, STRONG, PROUD, INDEPENDANT, WOKE BLACK MAN WHO CAN TAKE SUCH GREAT PRIDE IS HIS BLACKNESS AND THE PROUD HISTORY OF ALL BLACKNESS EVERYWHERE, then you can see why this strokes the egos of narcissists.
 
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